And the downword spiral begins....

[BROKENSPROKET]

PM sent....................

I fixed it for ya.

 

[Trip20]

He is talking out both sides of his mouth...

Thank you. I thought I was the only one that saw the irony.

On a general note, I have no problem with the high level intent of CJ's post, which is to help ensure we don't lose sight of the big picture (not that we needed the babysitting). But the assertions in his post are so far off base, and the venomous bit at the end about shooting all of us untrained stray bullet idiots....... makes this whole thread just a bunch of horsesh*t.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

I concur. There is a strange dichotomy in his statements that implies cognitive dissonance. More disturbing yet is the misplaced rage and skewed perception of reality, which could be explained by a lack of reading comprehension, but possibly has its origin in some unresolved personal issues. Whatever the case, we are not the droids he's looking for.

+1

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

There was and is no reason for any attack on CJ, he simply stated his frustration with what he perceived as complacency in an issue he feels strongly about.

If he would have simply done that, the message would have been welcomed. Instead he made some pretty strong accusations and generalizations which are not called for.

 

[Superlite27]

Run for elected office and discover the magnitude of our minority.

Do nothing and guarantee it remains so.


Majorities aren't built by silence. They are built by reaching a threshold whereupon those that support something actually do something beyond anonymous silent agreement and discover, to their surprise, that there are a majority of others who have only been waiting for someone else to take the first step.

I imagine many minorities are made up of a majority of people who are simply unaware that they are a majority.

Sadly tragic if every single person in the room agrees, but sits in complicit silence believing they are alone in their opinion.

Doing something (anything) can only serve the purpose towards your goal. You might actually be several magnatudes of the minority, but by doing something (anything) it can only snowball. First, one person does something and the silent ones watch, and can only come to the conclusion that they, too, can do something. Enough people doing something can only lead to discovering more that agree. When this snowballs enough that many who agree finally reach the threshold of doing.....TA-DA! Majority.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

Thank you. I thought I was the only one that saw the irony.

On a general note, I have no problem with the high level intent of CJ's post, which is to help ensure we don't lose sight of the big picture (not that we needed the babysitting). But the assertions in his post are so far off base, and the venomous bit at the end about shooting all of us untrained stray bullet idiots....... makes this whole thread just a bunch of horsesh*t.

+1

 

[Outdoorsman1]

In my original post in this thread, I stood behind Calico Jack although I did express some disagreement to some of what he said. Then I went back and read and re-read some of his past posts. Some were excellent and some were very similar to his OP in this thread. They were, condescending, accusatory, irrational, and even borderline threatening with personal attacks, and at times contradicting to other posts he had made... It got to a point when reading them I would wonder which Calico Jack was writing that day.

I could post links but there would be many… to verify, just read some of his past posts for yourself…

Some what others here have said in recent posts seem to have some merit.

I have said it in the past and will say it again now…

I wish only the best for Calico Jack…. And wish him well and good luck in any of his future undertakings….

Outdoorsman1

 

[Outdoorsman1]

...your coming from Jack. As you've watched the fire in the eyes of the once vibrant Constitutional warrior fade, I to have seen it transform into the dim glow that illuminates the coveted plastic card. Knowing the momentum that it took to achieve what has been done will be slow; if not impossible to regain, it troubles me. I've tried to fan the embers of the once powerful flame that roared with energy. Though some of the embers glow, many of the gathers of wood that supplied the fuel for the force now sit idle. A storm approaches in the form of AB 237 but very few show it the deserved attention. Like you sir, I will grow tired of being a force for many with the will of one. I'll not stop fighting, not as long as I draw a breath, for I will not stand an injustice, not as long as I shall live. boar out.

WOW.... Just Wow...

Outdoorsman1

 

[bigdaddy1]

Have to admit I finally just read the entire post. Kind of floored about the hate,and confused that he would rather starve than be given bread. The fact that he feels that those whom do not devote their lives to the gun are not worthy worries me.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

I truly know where your coming from Jack. As you've watched the fire in the eyes of the once vibrant Constitutional warrior fade, I to have seen it transform into the dim glow that illuminates the coveted plastic card. Knowing the momentum that it took to achieve what has been done will be slow; if not impossible to regain, it troubles me. I've tried to fan the embers of the once powerful flame that roared with energy. Though some of the embers glow, many of the gathers of wood that supplied the fuel for the force now sit idle. A storm approaches in the form of AB 237 but very few show it the deserved attention. Like you sir, I will grow tired of being a force for many with the will of one. I'll not stop fighting, not as long as I draw a breath, for I will not stand an injustice, not as long as I shall live. boar out.

You say a storm approaches? A storm already hit the Capital and we were that storm.

Have you been sleeping. Capitol staffers talk about the storm on calls, emails, and visits that thier offices have gotten. Three of the five sponsors have withdrawn there names. Rep. Suder said that this bill will never get through the Assembly Rules Committee to be debated on the floor. I was told that Rep. Kleefisch has pulled the bill from the Assembly Rules Committee, so that it is not even there to be taken up. There are some rumors that the bill is being ammended to make it workable. We have lots of people wathcing for any action on this.

 

[Superlite27]

I don't know why I'm taking such an interest in this thread. Call it "feelings of empathy for my brothers in firearms" if you enjoy sappy, warm, fuzzy feelings. Call it "peanut gallery sniping" if you don't. As I'm from Missouri, it doesn't affect me, but I can't help but offer my 2 cents, wanted or not.

IMHO, Calico Jack has a very valid point. The fact that he puts it across in a "rantish", poorly phrased, and borderline hostile manner may discount the message for many of you, but I agree that it is valid. His method of dealing with it, accusations, and almost everything else that rolls off his keyboard also has the effect of refocusing the attention on the inflammatory statements, backwards thinking, and controversial ideas of how to return fire upon those he considers improperly trained. I implore folks not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Please don't commit the error of logic that assumes that, since 99% of his rant is complete crap, the remaining 1% must be, as well.

All I can do is offer what I believe is a contribution.

Wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to take a look at other states passage of CCW, the results, and various occurrences, repurcussions, and effects as a basis for possibilites and eventualities of Wisconsin's? (That is, unless Wisconsin firearm owners, and gun rights advocates are so entrenched in their vow to "go it alone" while screaming "WE DON"T WANT YOUR STINKING HELP! WE'RE BIG BOYS! WE CAN HANDLE IT OURSELVES!"?) ( I say this, because I have put my 2 cents in here before, and been sternly reminded that I'm not even from Wisconsin, go back to my own state and shut up.)

Here in Missouri, we passed CCW in 2003 and it took effect in 2004. I'll not mention the website by name, but one was started with the intention of forwarding the firearm rights agenda. It was very successful and, I believe, contributed greatly to passage of CCW here. There were some bigtime "movers and shakers" who were members there. After a long period of time, many of them became great activists, gained the ear of many lawmakers, and were what I'd consider to be downright experts on "how to get things done" concerning the state legislature.

What a wonderful tool! You couldn't wish for a better group when it came to firearm rights! They had it all together. What next? What could be done to "keep the ball rolling"?

In my opinion, full pre-emption for open carry, Constitutional Carry, and campus carry were several things that would have been the logical place to go.....

Wrong.

What happened?

We got CCW. Game over. We won. The unnamed website's membership dropped off like a rock. As a matter of fact, the owners of the domain name sold it. The members who were "experts" and knew their way around the Capitol? Well, many are still active. They just seem to be focused on shooting range protection bills, and other stuff. Open Carry? Full Preemption? Constitutional Carry?

Not really a priority. We won, remember?

If you ask me....WHAT A WASTE! There used to be some really passionate, devoted, and die-hard activists in my state. To me, it would have been a "no-brainer" to keep it going. See just how far we could fight. We had all the tools assembled. We had the momentum.

It ended when we decided we won.

After reading this thread, it really made me feel for those of you speaking about Constitutional Carry and the passion you have for "the movement". Calico Jack has A VALID POINT. Unfortunately, he hasn't approached it in a manner conducive to DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT in the proper manner.

Yes. I realize the frustration. You didn't get everything you wanted. Some view the "permission slip" of a CCW license as a bunch of bullcrap. It is. But jumping off a cliff with your middle fingers raised in defiance won't do a tinker's damn to fix it.

Keep up the fight. DON'T STOP.

Not only do I implore those of you from Wisconsin to not give up, I also implore you to don't let shortfalls from your goals to inevitably force you to say "F*@K IT!" and quit. Those of you who are still keeping up the fight for unabridged freedom are going to face it doubly from now on. You're going to get those who quit with a smile because they think they've won, and you're going to get those who quit with a grumble because they think they've lost.

DON'T QUIT.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Originally Posted by wild boar
...your coming from Jack. As you've watched the fire in the eyes of the once vibrant Constitutional warrior fade, I to have seen it transform into the dim glow that illuminates the coveted plastic card. Knowing the momentum that it took to achieve what has been done will be slow; if not impossible to regain, it troubles me. I've tried to fan the embers of the once powerful flame that roared with energy. Though some of the embers glow, many of the gathers of wood that supplied the fuel for the force now sit idle. A storm approaches in the form of AB 237 but very few show it the deserved attention. Like you sir, I will grow tired of being a force for many with the will of one. I'll not stop fighting, not as long as I draw a breath, for I will not stand an injustice, not as long as I shall live. boar out.

Here...

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?96782-Lobby-efferts-for-ab-237-police-state!

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?96276-What-are-you-people-waiting-for-AB237-is-POLICE-STATE-BS.-Get-moving...

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?96599-AB-237-again

I glad I am one of the "Very Few" cause here's mine...

Thank you for your email message expressing concern with or opposition to Assembly Bill 237 (AB 237) relating to authorization to make arrests for activities punishable by civil forfeiture. I appreciate hearing from you on this matter.

Much information is currently circulating about this bill and it is experiencing a lot of discussion. Be assured I will definitely keep your thoughts in mind as this legislation is considered throughout the legislative process.

Thank you again for contacting me to share your opinion on AB 237. Feel free to contact me in the future if I can ever be of assistance.

Sincerely,

Samantha J. Kerkman
State Representative
66th Assembly District

Outdoorsman1

 

[protias]

Not only do I implore those of you from Wisconsin to not give up, I also implore you to don't let shortfalls from your goals to inevitably force you to say "F*@K IT!" and quit. Those of you who are still keeping up the fight for unabridged freedom are going to face it doubly from now on. You're going to get those who quit with a smile because they think they've won, and you're going to get those who quit with a grumble because they think they've lost.

DON'T QUIT.

Thanks for the words of encouragement Superlite. I know a lot of the people here well, and we will never stop to regain our rights. We will always find something to restore, whether it is local or national. We The People will not be silent anymore.

 

[rcawdor57]

Good Post....We Never Said We Are Quiting!

I don't know why I'm taking such an interest in this thread. Call it "feelings of empathy for my brothers in firearms" if you enjoy sappy, warm, fuzzy feelings. Call it "peanut gallery sniping" if you don't. As I'm from Missouri, it doesn't affect me, but I can't help but offer my 2 cents, wanted or not.

IMHO, Calico Jack has a very valid point. The fact that he puts it across in a "rantish", poorly phrased, and borderline hostile manner may discount the message for many of you, but I agree that it is valid. His method of dealing with it, accusations, and almost everything else that rolls off his keyboard also has the effect of refocusing the attention on the inflammatory statements, backwards thinking, and controversial ideas of how to return fire upon those he considers improperly trained. I implore folks not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Please don't commit the error of logic that assumes that, since 99% of his rant is complete crap, the remaining 1% must be, as well.

All I can do is offer what I believe is a contribution.

Wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to take a look at other states passage of CCW, the results, and various occurrences, repurcussions, and effects as a basis for possibilites and eventualities of Wisconsin's? (That is, unless Wisconsin firearm owners, and gun rights advocates are so entrenched in their vow to "go it alone" while screaming "WE DON"T WANT YOUR STINKING HELP! WE'RE BIG BOYS! WE CAN HANDLE IT OURSELVES!"?) ( I say this, because I have put my 2 cents in here before, and been sternly reminded that I'm not even from Wisconsin, go back to my own state and shut up.)

Here in Missouri, we passed CCW in 2003 and it took effect in 2004. I'll not mention the website by name, but one was started with the intention of forwarding the firearm rights agenda. It was very successful and, I believe, contributed greatly to passage of CCW here. There were some bigtime "movers and shakers" who were members there. After a long period of time, many of them became great activists, gained the ear of many lawmakers, and were what I'd consider to be downright experts on "how to get things done" concerning the state legislature.

What a wonderful tool! You couldn't wish for a better group when it came to firearm rights! They had it all together. What next? What could be done to "keep the ball rolling"?

In my opinion, full pre-emption for open carry, Constitutional Carry, and campus carry were several things that would have been the logical place to go.....

Wrong.

What happened?

We got CCW. Game over. We won. The unnamed website's membership dropped off like a rock. As a matter of fact, the owners of the domain name sold it. The members who were "experts" and knew their way around the Capitol? Well, many are still active. They just seem to be focused on shooting range protection bills, and other stuff. Open Carry? Full Preemption? Constitutional Carry?

Not really a priority. We won, remember?

If you ask me....WHAT A WASTE! There used to be some really passionate, devoted, and die-hard activists in my state. To me, it would have been a "no-brainer" to keep it going. See just how far we could fight. We had all the tools assembled. We had the momentum.

It ended when we decided we won.

After reading this thread, it really made me feel for those of you speaking about Constitutional Carry and the passion you have for "the movement". Calico Jack has A VALID POINT. Unfortunately, he hasn't approached it in a manner conducive to DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT in the proper manner.

Yes. I realize the frustration. You didn't get everything you wanted. Some view the "permission slip" of a CCW license as a bunch of bullcrap. It is. But jumping off a cliff with your middle fingers raised in defiance won't do a tinker's damn to fix it.

Keep up the fight. DON'T STOP.

Not only do I implore those of you from Wisconsin to not give up, I also implore you to don't let shortfalls from your goals to inevitably force you to say "F*@K IT!" and quit. Those of you who are still keeping up the fight for unabridged freedom are going to face it doubly from now on. You're going to get those who quit with a smile because they think they've won, and you're going to get those who quit with a grumble because they think they've lost.

DON'T QUIT.

You are welcome to post anytime as far as I am concerned. As for Calico Jack and why some are posting negatively about his post you would have to of "been there". In other words you would have to be on this forum every day and see what everyone posted especially C.J. His posts were always within the "norm" if I can say such a thing and yes, he has always been passionate about self defense, firearms, carry, etc. He went quiet a few months ago and then posted his rant yesterday as if we had all given up our first born child.

What I found very disturbing about his last post was what he stated about the training we will get if it is not from him or someone "who has been there" in a self defense situation. He further stated that if someone sends a stray bullet his way or his family's way....well, you can read his post. I find that very disturbing and the thought process to get there even more. We are not warriors, we are not infantrymen, we are not police, we are not S.W.A.T. and we sure as heck don't play one on T.V. We are average people that will do our best to never have to use our firearm unless it is a last resort. Some have a lot of training some don't. Some can afford to shoot a lot some can't.

We, (Wisconsin Carry members on this forum) have spoken about continuing on after getting our concealed carry licenses and never giving up. We cannot give up. We cannot stop. The government will never stop working on stripping the People of their rights. We know that. Many of us are active and remain active on a daily basis. I contact at least one legislator a week, usually two to three a week about one bill or another. AB237 I have contacted ALL of the Wisconsin legislators AND our governor about this monstrosity. I don't believe any of us are complacent now and many are even more vigilant than before (Wild Boar, Calico Jack to name a few) in fighting for our rights.

The war on our rights will never end. Never. And we will never stop fighting them.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

You are welcome to post anytime as far as I am concerned. As for Calico Jack and why some are posting negatively about his post you would have to of "been there". In other words you would have to be on this forum every day and see what everyone posted especially C.J. His posts were NOT always within the "norm" if I can say such a thing and yes, he has always been passionate about self defense, firearms, carry, etc. He went quiet a few months ago and then posted his rant yesterday as if we had all given up our first born child.

What I found very disturbing about his last post was what he stated about the training we will get if it is not from him or someone "who has been there" in a self defense situation. He further stated that if someone sends a stray bullet his way or his family's way....well, you can read his post. I find that very disturbing and the thought process to get there even more. We are not warriors, we are not infantrymen, we are not police, we are not S.W.A.T. and we sure as heck don't play one on T.V. We are average people that will do our best to never have to use our firearm unless it is a last resort. Some have a lot of training some don't. Some can afford to shoot a lot some can't.

We, (Wisconsin Carry members on this forum) have spoken about continuing on after getting our concealed carry licenses and never giving up. We cannot give up. We cannot stop. The government will never stop working on stripping the People of their rights. We know that. Many of us are active and remain active on a daily basis. I contact at least one legislator a week, usually two to three a week about one bill or another. AB237 I have contacted ALL of the Wisconsin legislators AND our governor about this monstrosity. I don't believe any of us are complacent now and many are even more vigilant than before (Wild Boar, Calico Jack to name a few) in fighting for our rights.

The war on our rights will never end. Never. And we will never stop fighting them.

Fixed it for ya.....

Cite....

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?92759-Instructors-Run-Rampant-In-Wisconsin!!!&p=1574530&viewfull=1#post1574530

Post # 38

And called out in post # 42

Outdoorsman1

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

I don't know why I'm taking such an interest in this thread. Call it "feelings of empathy for my brothers in firearms" if you enjoy sappy, warm, fuzzy feelings. Call it "peanut gallery sniping" if you don't. As I'm from Missouri, it doesn't affect me, but I can't help but offer my 2 cents, wanted or not.

IMHO, Calico Jack has a very valid point. The fact that he puts it across in a "rantish", poorly phrased, and borderline hostile manner may discount the message for many of you, but I agree that it is valid. His method of dealing with it, accusations, and almost everything else that rolls off his keyboard also has the effect of refocusing the attention on the inflammatory statements, backwards thinking, and controversial ideas of how to return fire upon those he considers improperly trained. I implore folks not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Please don't commit the error of logic that assumes that, since 99% of his rant is complete crap, the remaining 1% must be, as well.

All I can do is offer what I believe is a contribution.

Wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to take a look at other states passage of CCW, the results, and various occurrences, repurcussions, and effects as a basis for possibilites and eventualities of Wisconsin's? (That is, unless Wisconsin firearm owners, and gun rights advocates are so entrenched in their vow to "go it alone" while screaming "WE DON"T WANT YOUR STINKING HELP! WE'RE BIG BOYS! WE CAN HANDLE IT OURSELVES!"?) ( I say this, because I have put my 2 cents in here before, and been sternly reminded that I'm not even from Wisconsin, go back to my own state and shut up.)

Here in Missouri, we passed CCW in 2003 and it took effect in 2004. I'll not mention the website by name, but one was started with the intention of forwarding the firearm rights agenda. It was very successful and, I believe, contributed greatly to passage of CCW here. There were some bigtime "movers and shakers" who were members there. After a long period of time, many of them became great activists, gained the ear of many lawmakers, and were what I'd consider to be downright experts on "how to get things done" concerning the state legislature.

What a wonderful tool! You couldn't wish for a better group when it came to firearm rights! They had it all together. What next? What could be done to "keep the ball rolling"?

In my opinion, full pre-emption for open carry, Constitutional Carry, and campus carry were several things that would have been the logical place to go.....

Wrong.

What happened?

We got CCW. Game over. We won. The unnamed website's membership dropped off like a rock. As a matter of fact, the owners of the domain name sold it. The members who were "experts" and knew their way around the Capitol? Well, many are still active. They just seem to be focused on shooting range protection bills, and other stuff. Open Carry? Full Preemption? Constitutional Carry?

Not really a priority. We won, remember?

If you ask me....WHAT A WASTE! There used to be some really passionate, devoted, and die-hard activists in my state. To me, it would have been a "no-brainer" to keep it going. See just how far we could fight. We had all the tools assembled. We had the momentum.

It ended when we decided we won.

After reading this thread, it really made me feel for those of you speaking about Constitutional Carry and the passion you have for "the movement". Calico Jack has A VALID POINT. Unfortunately, he hasn't approached it in a manner conducive to DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT in the proper manner.

Yes. I realize the frustration. You didn't get everything you wanted. Some view the "permission slip" of a CCW license as a bunch of bullcrap. It is. But jumping off a cliff with your middle fingers raised in defiance won't do a tinker's damn to fix it.

Keep up the fight. DON'T STOP.

Not only do I implore those of you from Wisconsin to not give up, I also implore you to don't let shortfalls from your goals to inevitably force you to say "F*@K IT!" and quit. Those of you who are still keeping up the fight for unabridged freedom are going to face it doubly from now on. You're going to get those who quit with a smile because they think they've won, and you're going to get those who quit with a grumble because they think they've lost.

DON'T QUIT.

You do make valid points, CalicoJack did not. He may have tried to, but failed miserably.

We are not going to follow the path of Missouri. We are Wisconsin. Missouri has had CC for 8 years? Wisconsin may have failed to get CC over the past decade, but considering what we got now, the wait was well worth it. Wisconsin has arguably the 5th best CCW legislation in the US. All around better than what Missouri has and you have had 8 years to improve it. We were hungry and we fought hard.

With Constitutional Carry in mind, our GOP fought back against the DOJ making training requirements through emergency rules and the Joint Committee on Regulation of Adminstrative Rules struck down mandated training requirements. A Wisconsinite still needs proof of training, but the content and duration is left to the discretion of the certified trainer and the student, not the government.

I want to add that many of our legislators have sworn to fight for Constitutional Carry and have it passed before lawsuits for open records requests for information on CWL holders can be released.

We had a great election year in 2010 and we have seeing the benefits of some hard fought battles here in Wisconsin.

 

[wild boar]

I was, and remain awake. ...

You say a storm approaches? A storm already hit the Capital and we were that storm.

Have you been sleeping. Capitol staffers talk about the storm on calls, emails, and visits that thier offices have gotten. Three of the five sponsors have withdrawn there names. Rep. Suder said that this bill will never get through the Assembly Rules Committee to be debated on the floor. I was told that Rep. Kleefisch has pulled the bill from the Assembly Rules Committee, so that it is not even there to be taken up. There are some rumors that the bill is being ammended to make it workable. We have lots of people wathcing for any action on this.

Your "storm" is spoke of in past tense, an intended admission of the end, or have you made a mistake? You further speak of "we", "lots of people and different unreferenced possibility's of action to be, not to be, or won't be done. This has been all to quit for me to stop asking questions. boar out.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

Your "storm" is spoke of in past tense, an intended admission of the end, or have you made a mistake? You further speak of "we", "lots of people and different unreferenced possibility's of action to be, not to be, or won't be done. This has been all to quit for me to stop asking questions. boar out.

What more do you want us to do?

 

[wild boar]

BROKENSPROKET, from you, nothing. You're still in there face as we should be, and for that, great, keep up the good work. What has happened to our Constitutional Rights has been accomplished by the slow eroding force we call our Government. They have been forever present through out history, and much like the river, the water can slowly take away the banks, and never leave the stream. In order to stop this It must be slowed, reduced, and monitored. boar out.

 

[bigdaddy1]

CJ spit out some hate, but I did not say his point was mute. Thats why I stated you cant win a war with one battle. While I know that some may feel complacent now that we have concealed carry, and it is a big victory for gun rights in Wisconsin. However I do not feel that we have given up.