Another Rookie Cop, Another Tragic End to Life

[bomber]

The kid started to pull the gun from his waist band. You can see it on the video.

Should the cop have waited till the kid drew, pointed, fired, then called you down to scene to ask permission to return fire? Then you could investigate it find out it was a kid and say "its ok hea only 12 he gets a free pass for this".

I noticed you nor anyone else has answered the question posed. Just thrown crap back

Maybe he was pulling it out to show the cops it was fake.

Should the cop have waited till the kid drew, pointed, fired, then called you down to the scene to ask permission to return fire?
No, but the cop didn't try to deescalate the situation at all, he pulled up and started shooting. He didn't even give the kid a chance to comply with his command to drop it. The gun was in his waistband. How is he supposed to drop it without pulling it out first?

 

[OC for ME]

We've got two officers that were out there protecting the public that just had to, you know, do something that nobody wants to do.

Sadly ironic, these words are. If you consider these words from the deputy chief carefully the mindset is again confirmed, no citizen's life is equal with the life of a cop.

Look at it this way, despite what we seem to think we see on the posted video the local top cop will soon tell us what we should be seeing, or should have saw, on the video.

 

[Primus]

Maybe he was pulling it out to show the cops it was fake.

Should the cop have waited till the kid drew, pointed, fired, then called you down to the scene to ask permission to return fire?
No, but the cop didn't try to deescalate the situation at all, he pulled up and started shooting. He didn't even give the kid a chance to comply with his command to drop it. The gun was in his waistband. How is he supposed to drop it without pulling it out first?

You don't. You ask to see hands. Any other motion besides that can be interpreted as a threat.

A person going FOR the gun whether it be in holster, pants, pocket, etc is irrelevant. The command isn't "let me see the gun!" Its let me see your hands. Or drop the blank if they clearly are holding it.

Let me put some perspective. Relate it to OCing. If this was a guy with an OCd pistol. Same everything else. Same actions prior, same caller saying ocd gun might be fake... Its just holstered when cop arrives instead of in pants.

If the cop yelled let me see your hands or ANY command except give me the gun (which would never be yelled, ask the guys here that have been stopped. The cop takes your gun himself) and you immediately grabbed said gun and started to draw it what do you think the response would be? Not good...

Ive been accused many times of appealing to emotion and I admit I do on occasion. I'm a compassionate guy for better or worse. So I can tell that a lot of you guys are hung up on the fact it was a kid. If this was a 32 year old male doing same thing its be the usual "play stupid games win stupid prizes" or Darwin comments. Except this was a kid which does suck. Doesn't change threat assessment and reaction.

 

[The Truth]

Damn....just seen the video.

I have always said I'd never believe anything a cop says or writes in a report after an incident. I gave the police the benefit of the doubt and almost sided with them on this.

My bad. They murdered a kid.

Me too, brother. I feel like an idiot.

 

[OC for ME]

There was doubt as to the potential threat posed by the individual called into 911, however, the deputy chief says that those two cops were on a "gun run."

The decedent was not a adult, kids of that age have a different thought process and come to decisions very much differently that a 32 y/o, even the decision as to how to comply with the commands given by the cop.

This did occur in Ohio and I'm wondering how the cops will reconcile what they saw upon arrival considering the current gun laws of Ohio. The cop did state, according to his father, that he did not know that the individual was a kid. So, is the response seen on the video normal procedure? A 911 caller can call in and say anything.

 

[WalkingWolf]

There was doubt as to the potential threat posed by the individual called into 911, however, the deputy chief says that those two cops were on a "gun run."

The decedent was not a adult, kids of that age have a different thought process and come to decisions very much differently that a 32 y/o, even the decision as to how to comply with the commands given by the cop.

This did occur in Ohio and I'm wondering how the cops will reconcile what they saw upon arrival considering the current gun laws of Ohio. The cop did state, according to his father, that he did not know that the individual was a kid. So, is the response seen on the video normal procedure? A 911 caller can call in and say anything.

Got a boss you don't like, an ex, maybe a noisy neighbor. Just call in a person with a gun, problem solved. After all from what we saw with the Walmart case the caller will not be held responsible.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You don't. You ask to see hands. Any other motion besides that can be interpreted as a threat.

Stop being a cop. This is insane rationalization of sociopaths.

A person going FOR the gun whether it be in holster, pants, pocket, etc is irrelevant. The command isn't "let me see the gun!" Its let me see your hands. Or drop the blank if they clearly are holding it.

Not what happened here, did you watch the video? So evade and misdirect?

Let me put some perspective. Relate it to OCing. If this was a guy with an OCd pistol. Same everything else. Same actions prior, same caller saying ocd gun might be fake... Its just holstered when cop arrives instead of in pants.

Not what happened here, you brother in blue murdered a person. You are an apologist and part of the problem.

If the cop yelled let me see your hands or ANY command except give me the gun (which would never be yelled, ask the guys here that have been stopped. The cop takes your gun himself) and you immediately grabbed said gun and started to draw it what do you think the response would be? Not good...

Didn't happen here. I guess I should have shot the cop who drew on me from behind an unmarked police car and didn't identify himself as a cop. I would be justified right?

Ive been accused many times of appealing to emotion and I admit I do on occasion. I'm a compassionate guy for better or worse. So I can tell that a lot of you guys are hung up on the fact it was a kid. If this was a 32 year old male doing same thing its be the usual "play stupid games win stupid prizes" or Darwin comments. Except this was a kid which does suck. Doesn't change threat assessment and reaction.

NO shite its more depressing when cops kill children, but no we are not hung up on that, I am just as angry as all the other numerous times they kill innocents.

The messed up thing is the obvious double standard people like you have for costumed agents of the state. Civilians use of force are supposed to be broader than constitutionally restricted government agents.

 

[OC for ME]

Stop being a cop. This is insane rationalization of sociopaths. ...

It is institutional, systemic, almost genetic in nature. Why do you think the term furtive movement is used almost without thinking. The term that comes to my mind is pathological. Not all cops think as does Primus.

Side note: I ask a cop buddy of mine what he would have done after he watched the video, at my request, he saw a rookie mistake, a deadly rookie mistake to be sure and then said no more on the subject.

While a citizen should have wide latitude to employ force in a SD situation, not being professionally trained in threat assessment and appropriate responses to a threat, the reality does not support this. Citizens are held to a very much higher standard and in some states there is a standard that the citizen must be injured before they may use force to defend themselves. No cop, on or off duty, would ever attempt to meet the same standard that some citizens are held to.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Is there audio out there? Because in the video I saw the cop shoots the kid immediately on rolling up. I am not even sure if the squad even stopped completely. The claims of kid not responding to calls to put his hands up don't compute. Unless the officer was saying them in the car as they were rolling up. Then that would clearly be murder. Just try saying put your hands up three times in one second.

IMO it was Bang! Bang! "Put your hands up". There was no need what so ever for this kid to die!

 

[OC for ME]

Update of a sort:

Despite all his [Officer Tim Loehmann] apparent shortcomings, perceived lack of maturity and inability to follow directions, his files said he was 'eligible for rehire.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2859162/Memorial-service-set-boy-12-shot-officer.html

It will be interesting the findings of the investigation. Will Officer Tim Loehmann be a sacrificial lamb given the MB and Garner GJ decision? I certainly hope not. The video certainly seems to support Officer Tim Loehmann's account of the incident. Or, it does not clearly contradict his account of the incident. It will be interesting to read what his partner's account of the incident.

 

[The Truth]

Update of a sort:It will be interesting the findings of the investigation. Will Officer Tim Loehmann be a sacrificial lamb given the MB and Garner GJ decision? I certainly hope not. The video certainly seems to support Officer Tim Loehmann's account of the incident. Or, it does not clearly contradict his account of the incident. It will be interesting to read what his partner's account of the incident.

In other words, the cop had a history of real documented mental deficiencies, yet he was still allowed a badge and a gun. Sounds to me like the whole department is liable.