Armed officer at school stops school shooting 1/31/2013

[zack991]

Anecdotal.

There aren't too many studies regarding civilian v. LEO shootings.

I'm not aware of a time where 13 civilians shot 120 rounds at an unarmed person.

True I have looked for hours a few days ago an they are hard to find on civilian shootings but the Cop side of the argument the many study's clearly shows a complete lack of accuracy on their part that many feel because they do not face the same legal action if they hit a innocent person as a civilian does.


http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/

Interesting article.

With 14 incidents stopped by police with a total of 200 dead that’s an average of about 14.3. With 15 incidents stopped by civilians and 35 dead that’s an average of 2.3.


The first point I want to draw your attention to is that roughly half of shooting rampages end in suicide anyway. What that means is that police are not even in a position to stop most of them. Only the civilians present at the time of the shooting have any opportunity to stop those shooters. That’s probably more important than the statistic itself. In a shooting rampage, counting on the police to intervene at all is a coin flip at best.


Second, within the civilian category 10 of the 15 shootings were stopped by unarmed civilians. What’s amazing about that is that whether armed or not, when a civilian plays hero it seems to save a lot of lives. The courthouse shooting in Tyler, Texas was the only incident where the heroic civilian was killed. In that incident the hero was armed with a handgun and the villain was armed with an assault rifle and body armor. If you compare the average of people killed in shootings stopped by armed civilians and unarmed civilians you get 1.8 and 2.6, but that’s not nearly as significant as the difference between a proactive civilian, and a cowering civilian who waits for police.


So, given that far less people die in rampage shootings stopped by a proactive civilian, only civilians have any opportunity to stop rampage shootings in roughly half of incidents, and armed civilians do better on average than unarmed civilians, wouldn’t you want those heroic individuals who risk their lives to save others to have every tool available at their disposal?

 

[WalkingWolf]

"Willing, and able." I get the sense that most teachers become teachers, to teach, not to think tactically.

As I stated previously, armed security should be in schools...there would be no person to call, because there would be security patrolling the school.

Are you claiming that only police can think tactically? So you are not a cop, correct? Then by your own postings you should not carry?

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Are you claiming that only police can think tactically? So you are not a cop, correct? Then by your own postings you should not carry?

I see too many LEO's at coffee shops, sitting with their back to the door--so, no, I'm not stating that.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I see too many LEO's at coffee shops, sitting with their back to the door--so, no, I'm not stating that.

What tactical training have YOU had? Should you be carrying a gun?

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

What tactical training have YOU had? Should you be carrying a gun?

That's none of your business.

 

[WalkingWolf]

That's none of your business.

Just as I suspected, NONE. So by your posts you have no business carrying.

 

[marshaul]

I will keep it simple: I'm for armed security in schools--LEO's.

Frankly, our kids deserve better than to be subject to the predations of the state just for a little security.

Have you seen the kind of crap school cops pull? They definitely don't believe the Bill of Rights applies in schools.

Resource Officers are better than gun control, or god forbid an actual massacre, but voluntarily armed faculty/administrative staff is better yet.

We can have out cake and eat it too. To some of us, however, that cake doesn't have to always leave the lingering taste of boot heel.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

I for one do not want cops or other armed guards in my kid's school. There is already to strong a movement teaching our kids that cops are basically Judge Dredd with god-like authority. There is nothing in me to desire more of a police state than we already have. The answer is quite simple to me. Apologize for stealing people's right to bare arms in certain places like schools, and reinstate the right immediately. Instead of ******* money away on "buy backs" use it to promote the idea of firearms training for all citizens. Reject the desire to make our children "fish in a barrel".

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Frankly, our kids deserve better than to be subject to the predations of the state just for a little security.

Have you seen the kind of crap school cops pull? They definitely don't believe the Bill of Rights applies in schools.

Resource Officers are better than gun control, or god forbid an actual massacre, but voluntarily armed faculty/administrative staff is better yet.

We can have out cake and eat it too. To some of us, however, that cake doesn't have to always leave the lingering taste of boot heel.

Agreed.

Yes, I have.

I wonder: What if not one of the teacher, nor faculty, want to be armed...then I suppose the school will be unarmed.

No, you cannot have your cake, and eat it too.

 

[marshaul]

I wonder: What if not one of the teacher, nor faculty, want to be armed...then I suppose the school will be unarmed.

The school might consider hiring armed security, of the non-LEO sort.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

The school might consider hiring armed security, of the non-LEO sort.

I can dig it. I don't want some Alabama bunker, tea party 2.0 type though, he must be required to go through a psychological evaluation, disclosure, and prove some sort of competency.

 

[marshaul]

I can dig it. I don't want some Alabama bunker, tea party 2.0 type though, he must be required to go through a psychological evaluation, disclosure, and prove some sort of competency.

Yes, if he or she isn't already professional faculty or administrative staff, these things are in order.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I can dig it. I don't want some Alabama bunker, tea party 2.0 type though, he must be required to go through a psychological evaluation, disclosure, and prove some sort of competency.

I don't want some liberal chicken shitt type that will abandon the children at the first sign of trouble.

 

[JoeSparky]

The school might consider hiring armed security, of the non-LEO sort.

Nah, just ask for PARENTAL VOLUNTEERS after all the STATE is NOT the parent!

 

[marshaul]

Nah, just ask for PARENTAL VOLUNTEERS after all the STATE is NOT the parent!

That's another conversation.

I'm all for eliminating all government control of education entirely (although I could prefer leaving some sort of voucher system in place to ensure that all citizens of our republic get the education they need to be effective checks on government).

 

[beebobby]

Anybody find it ironic that the armed guard didn't have to use his gun to end the threat? This shooter wasn't a mass shooter, just someone who was pissed off at another student. This was no Sandy Hook scenario.

 

[marshaul]

Anybody find it ironic that the armed guard didn't have to use his gun to end the threat? This shooter wasn't a mass shooter, just someone who was pissed off at another student. This was no Sandy Hook scenario.

I've kind of assumed he disarmed the kid at gunpoint. That hasn't been specified, but it's hard to imagine approaching an active shooter without your gun drawn.

 

[arentol]

The best solution is to remove the (unconstitutional on the grounds congress has not shown that it works) gun free school zone act and for the States to remove any similar laws. The only special law affecting carry on school grounds should be that you must legally conceal to carry on school grounds. Such laws should be implemented by the states, not the federal government, as this is really not their concern.

The reason this would work is that teachers are professionals and won't screw around, especially because they would know the affect of any unnecessary incident on their career.

Best part is that this solution is free to implement and is a net positive to maintain (net lower legal costs because of fewer/less deadly school shootings).

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

I don't want some liberal chicken shitt type that will abandon the children at the first sign of trouble.

Then LEO's it is!

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

The best solution is to remove the (unconstitutional on the grounds congress has not shown that it works) gun free school zone act and for the States to remove any similar laws. The only special law affecting carry on school grounds should be that you must legally conceal to carry on school grounds. Such laws should be implemented by the states, not the federal government, as this is really not their concern.

The reason this would work is that teachers are professionals and won't screw around, especially because they would know the affect of any unnecessary incident on their career.

Best part is that this solution is free to implement and is a net positive to maintain (net lower legal costs because of fewer/less deadly school shootings).

Presumptuous, much?