Arts Beats and Eats

[NHCGRPR45]

well, i think it went ok, mr.d went a little nuts, as expected he appears to be the bully of the council. and his issue with us is solely the firearm one, he appears to be an intelligent man and as is often the case with the "antis" he is solely one sided on some issues, such as firearms. its unfortunate that he allows his views to allow him to get to a place where he thinks he knows what is best for everyone, but himself. do as i say not as i do:banghead:. he is ok with being armed himself, but dosen't want the rabble to do the same:cuss:. IMO him being a police officer when or rights were hammered by the "assault weapon ban" only enforces his sense that he is RIGHT! when in fact he is most decidedly not. and his comment about "those magazines may hold as many as 15 rounds!" proves at least to me that he was dancing happy about the clinton gun ban, again IMO

another point is sometimes what is important is what is not said, his looking away, looking at the ceiling, looking around while the OC speakers were speaking speaks volumes about his attitude toward us. not just him either! watch the video! of when we were speaking and watch his reactions, and other council members. then watch when mr. witz from ABE spoke, he was positively riveted! :idea:

mr. d is no idiot, his comment on the issues brought up before the council were on point, and he made intelligent arguments with everyone but us. he was very hostile in his speach and body language to those idea's he didn't agree with! he most likely the type of person that if your not actively with me, then your agaisnt me and a threat. so i will let you know i don't like your way of thinking by being dismissive, and hostile. again all IMO
and those of you who liked my speach i thank you! i think i messed up a few times, but public speaking is not my thing to say the least. again thank you and have a good night!

 

[PDinDetroit]

Royal Oak City Commission Meeting Update: 7-19-2010

Thanks to all who attended the meeting last night. I believe that there were 16 or 17 persons Open Carrying, with 5 or 6 persons who spoke during Public Comments.

Items of Note:

1. The City Commission was respectful and treated us fairly during this meeting. Mayor Ellison publicly apologized to scot623 for statements that gave the appearance that scot623 was engaging in harassment. No other statements of Public Apology were given, although I think they are due at some point.

2. During Public Comments, there were minimal outbursts from City Commissioners, even though specific members were visibly "distraught" (/snarc on, one anti appeared to be wetting his panties, /snarc off). The one exception to this was when one of our members, who was requested to provide his name and address, was requesting that City Commission members provide their names and addresses for the record, which some would not. MCL 15.263, Section 3, Item 4 states that we do not have to provide this information. Link: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-15-263

3. There was no large contingent of Royal Oak Police Officers or Oakland County Sheriff Deputies present during the meeting. No Open Carrier, to the best of my knowledge, was harassed in any way. The Royal Oak Police Chief was present during the meeting and 1 lone Royal Oak Police Officer appeared from time to time in the back of the room. Very anti-climactic, as was expected!

4. The President of Arts, Beats, and Eats was present during the City Commission Meeting and spoke highly favorably of us during Public Comments. Scot623, myself, and others spoke directly with him out in the hallway for some time after that. Although he supports our rights and disagreed with us on some topics in a very respectful manner, he does intend to keep the "no firearms" provision of the contract if at all possible. Others and myself are currently working at researching some possible "angles" to be covered. I will be sending the write-up previously provided to the City Commission to the ABE President sometime this AM.

I believe that we can and must resolve this issue prior to the festival occurring. I want no rights infringed upon, no harassment of any kind, and no legal consequences for anyone who attempts to Open Carry at the festival grounds on Labor Day Weekend, including no legal consequences for ABE, the City of Royal Oak, and the Police Departments of the City of Royal Oak and Oakland County.

 

[fozzy71]

..... he does intend to keep the "no firearms" provision of the contract if at all possible. ......

Oh, so he wants to knowingly break the pre-emption law? Good idea.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

It will be interesting to see if they actually post the video of this meeting online...including the close up ZOOM of Lapeer20m & his ITWB carried pistol. The camera operator seemed to find it of major interest. LOL!

 

[dougwg]

Here's the link to where the vid's will be posted....as soon as they're done posting them

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/meetings/city-commission/2010/07/19/city-commission-meeting

 

[fozzy71]

It will be interesting to see if they actually post the video of this meeting online...including the close up ZOOM of Lapeer20m & his ITWB carried pistol. The camera operator seemed to find it of major interest. LOL!

He did the IWB/half-concealed carry? :monkey

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

He did the IWB/half-concealed carry? :monkey

Yes Sir!

 

[lapeer20m]

ot: see my new post discussing iwb oc

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?78213-Iwb-oc&p=1311530#post1311530

Thanks to all those who came out last night. Sorry i couldn't stay too long. It is exciting to be involved with a group that is fighting for freedom and literally making history by forcing cities to follow state law.

I thought the council was very attentive during our speeches. I have been to other meetings with different municipalities were the board members were playing on their smart phones, staring off into space, and paying zero attention to the public speakers. Royal Oak did not do this. Sure, some of the members may not have given 100% of their attention 100% of the time, but overall, i was pleased with the council last night.

I was also most impressed with the mayor's apology.

They still do not exactly understand all the rules involving open carry by cpl holders, but i do not fault them for that.

I looked very intently at the offending councilman to see if he was packing. He had to stand up and turn 180 degrees during the pledge of allegiance. If he was carrying, then it was really concealed.

 

[sprinklerguy28]

Thank you to everyone who attended, as I was unable to make this one. I am in communication with John from AB&E and will keep all updated on the progress.

 

[eastmeyers]

I looked very intently at the offending councilman to see if he was packing. He had to stand up and turn 180 degrees during the pledge of allegiance. If he was carrying, then it was really concealed.

First off you just admitted checking out a dude, didn't you just have a baby, and are married, shame shame...

Anyways if Drinkwine was packing he had to have been doing so in the pocket or the ankle, very well concealed. But I think that all CPL holders (me too) know how good of holsters they make these days and how easy it is to conceal certain firearms certain places.

I think in last weeks meeting he had it concealed someplace very deep and dark with a VERY high capacity magazine.

:banana::banana:

 

[smellslikemichigan]

video

is up

 

[eastmeyers]

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/meetings/city-commission/2010/07/19/city-commission-meeting

We are live, sort to speak...

 

[smellslikemichigan]

i just finished watching rob's speech and let me just say, wow! very articulate and right to the point. great job!

i've just finished watching all speakers and i would like to add that everyone did a fantastic job.

i haven't watched the meeting in it's entirety, but if anyone else does, please add any other items of interest along with the time stamp.

 

[Agent1]

.....he had it concealed someplace very deep and dark with a VERY high capacity magazine.

:banana::banana:

OOOooooHHHhh..... OUCH!

I hope poor Mr. Drunkwino didn't ride his bike to the meeting!:shocker:

Well done gentleman! Well done!
It is truely an honor to be associated with a classy and wise group of constitutional freedom fighters.
Has the council members been given Trifolds for there reading pleasure?

 

[scot623]

I'm still pissed Rasor interrupted my speech wanting my address. Threw me off my groove.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

I'm still pissed Rasor interrupted my speech wanting my address. Threw me off my groove.

Oh that's OK....you put a KEG of [to the point verbal legal] whip-ass on him quicker than I've seen in a long time, & rightly so...he is a P.A.B. in my book! Besides I made him read his legal name & address into the record for giggles

He is a lawyer....so that explains a lot on why he is ignorant of the law!

 

[lapeer20m]

how old does one need to be to enter a bar without a parent or guardian? are people younger than that unable to attend abe because of their assertion that abe is one giant liquor establishment?

*edited with the answer*

MCL 750.141, Section 141 of the Michigan Penal code states:

A minor child under 17 years of age shall not be permitted to remain in a dance hall, saloon, barroom or any place where spirituous or intoxicating liquor, wine or beer, or any beverage, liquor or liquors containing spirituous or intoxicating liquor, beer or malt liquor is sold, given away or furnished for a beverage, unless the minor is accompanied by parent or guardian. A proprietor, keeper or manager of any such place who permits a minor child to remain in any such place, and a person who encourages or induces in any way the minor child to enter the place or to remain therein shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.

If their official position is that the entire ABE footprint is a place where alcoholic drinks are furnished, then nobody under 17 is allowed without a parent or guardian. I did not see anything on their website indicating there is an age restriction to enter the event. If i understand correctly, if anyone under 17 is allowed in the manager or keeper of ABE shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. To prevent this, they would need to check the ID of everyone entering to make certain they meet the age requirements.

unless of course the entire event is not actually a bar or tavern (place where alcohol is furnished)....perhaps just the actual beer tent?

 

[Venator]

I'm still pissed Rasor interrupted my speech wanting my address. Threw me off my groove.

Rob, you and the other OC speakers did a FANTASTIC job. Very well done and well written. I really don't think the city has much off a leg to stand on.

As for the promoter of the event, he still doesn't understand that the two Prohibition (Liquor license and entertainment facility) he claims to exercise even if correct (and I doubt they would hold up) DO NOT apply to a CPL holder.

 

[PDinDetroit]

I am currently putting together an email to Mr Witz, President of ABE, inc with copies to Royal Oak City Government Officials, Oakland County Sheriff, Oakland County Prosecutor, and MI Attorney General. I am including information provided by the members here and on MGO. I firmly believe the City and ABE will comply due to the information provided.

Yes, I am an optimist. I believe the glass is always full, half-full of air and half full of water.

 

[Venator]

Yes, I am an optimist. I believe the glass is always full, half-full of air and half full of water.

I'd rather it be half full of good scotch whiskey