JoeSparky
Centurion
They still must have RAS that one open or concealed carrying does not have a permit.
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Ashland OC Ban
- Thread starter SemperFidelis
- Start date
They still must have RAS that one open or concealed carrying does not have a permit.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
We-the-People
Regular Member
The article is wrong regarding the CHL. While you must have one to carry on the building or grounds, you do not have to show it in order to enter the building. If you're open carry they will want to see it, and 166.380 says they can inspect it, but nothing in the law says you have to show the CHL to enter. Now, the police can push the issue if they choose, but if you're concealed they aren't going to know. My GF walked in (Feb 18th meeting) concealed and then removed her coat putting her squarely into the OC format. She later exited the building and reentered with the police officer saying nothing about it.
Just another example of the Mail Tribune and it's cohorts showing their anti-gun colors.
We-the-People
Regular Member
I agree but 166.380 hasn't been challenged in court that I'm aware of and certain hasn't been overturned. While it IS a 4th amendment violation to detain without RAS (requiring the showing of a CHL is a detainment), until it's successfully challenged (which would likely require a trip to the Supreme Court of the U.S.), we still have to deal with it.
Anyone volunteering to be a test case?
Jeff. State
Banned
This is going up for full council meeting March 18?
A MUST show for OCers! I refuse to get a Permission slip from the Government to CC, so this "law" if they passed it would either keep my family out of Ashland or I would be a "criminal" under their unconstitutional law.
"Shall NOT be infringed", that includes Government endorsed "Permission slips".
A MUST show for OCers! I refuse to get a Permission slip from the Government to CC, so this "law" if they passed it would either keep my family out of Ashland or I would be a "criminal" under their unconstitutional law.
"Shall NOT be infringed", that includes Government endorsed "Permission slips".
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We-the-People
Regular Member
Those without permission slips (i.e. CHL's) cannot OC to the meeting as it is in a "public building" and 166.370 requires a CHL to enter a public building with a firearm whether loaded or not.
The meeting on March 18th is the first time the Council will be able to actually debate the issue as prior meetings have been "study sessions" in which they cannot "deliberate" (i.e. argue the merits) but only gather "information". So far some good questions have been raised and the sponsoring Councilor (Carol Voisin) has offered no (ZERO, ZIP, NADDA) evidence other than emotional arguments ..... "for the children", "we need to protect the children", "we got a letter from Sandy Hook", "we can't let the fear of litigation keep us from protecting the children".
She was asked if she had any statistics or facts to back up the "need" for this ordinance and said "There are statistics out there but I didn't look them up".
My read of the Council is that there is NOT much support for passing the ordinance. This is especially true of the two ordinances as they were presented, not so true for the highly reduced (loaded carry ban only) ordinance offered by the city attorney as something that "had a good likelihood of surviving litigation".
Still, a large OC presence at the March 18th meeting would probably make an impression. I would love to see 10 or 15 OC'ers there and be able to point out that NONE of the many OC'ers present would be affected by the ordinance......that it is basically going to do NOTHING but make Ashland the "destination of choice" for every OC activist in Southern Oregon.
Doom Father
New member
Any plans for a meet up outside or anything? I don't have my CHL but would love to go and show support even if its outside the building.
We-the-People
Regular Member
UPDATE ON ASHLAND CITY COUNCIL ACTIONS
Last night it was standing room only (plus overflow).
BOTTOM LINE: The Council voted to have city staff research and come back with a gun ban ordinance minus the "vehicle provisions".
AFTER THE MEETING:
As the Patriots were discussing our next steps outside the building, near the parking lot, Councilor Voisin received an ARMED (Police) ESCORT TO HER CAR. I guess it's okay to advocate for the disarmament of the people when you can get an armed escort for yourself. This seems to be stereotypical of those who advocate for disarming the "peons".
DURING THE MEETING
Public comments on the issue came from over 30 people with the testimony almost evenly split pro / con with pro 2A supporters having 1 more LOCAL Ashlandite (most of those who testified were from Ashland) and 3 more total supporters. Comments from pro 2A speakers were based on personal experiences, logic, individual rights, and some emotional arguments. One female speaker who had been attacked (no details but the emotional level indicated it was a life changing event) stated she had personally spoken with Voisin who told her that they had good programs for victims.
Comments from anti 2A speakers were predominantly based on emotions and fear though there were a couple of doctors who stated they saw the effects of gun violence on children all the time (and supposedly work in Ashland). I'm not sure where all these gun victims are coming from when the Chief of Police has stated that there have only been two incidents in which a weapon was actually fired (in the last five years). Some of the speakers were just outright unbelievable.
1) Former Army artilleryman stated that the number one rule of gun safety was to never have a round chambered when carrying. STRANGE.....As a retired Marine, I never heard that. Perhaps he confused handguns and Artillery pieces? I would never transport or "carry" and artillery piece with "one in the chamber". I'm pretty sure the top two safety rules are 1) don't point the business end and anything you don't want destroyed (that was way down HIS list) and 2) Keep your damn trigger off the "bang switch".
2) One lady (who had earlier spoken in public forum asking the Council to attend an anti GMO event) talked about having moved to Ashland from California. She then told a story of having been on an airplane with a man who said he was an "arms dealer and sold machine guns and had them in a shed in his backyard". She explained how she was so frightened and called the FBI to report him after she landed. She then went on to tell how she'd had a gun pointed at her by a kid in downtown Ashland and had been frightened but no one would help her. She went to the police and they didn't help her either. According to her it turned out to be a toy gun. Not sure how she found that out if no one helped her.
AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING there was some discussion and then:
Voisin moved to approve the ban ordinance, seconded by Marsh. After discussion that looked to be a 4-2 WIN or a 3-3 tie (with Mayor Stromberg having basically, almost directly, stated that if it comes to him on a tie he would vote against).
The anti's revised their goal and moved to have staff come back with an ordinance without the vehicle provisions as MORRIS had stated that the vehicle provisions were the most problematic for him. The caused him to flip and the vote was 4-2 to have staff bring back an ordinance for a loaded ban without the vehicle provisions.
The vote then went 4-2 With MORRIS flipping (on the basis of removing the vehicle provisions) and Slattery voted for it "to allow more discussion" and fact gathering (political play?). He also went on record as reversing his previous stance that the issue should go before the voters rather than be a close vote from the Council.
There was quite a bit of discussion that this type of regulation needs to be pursued at the state level due to preemption.
The above is my best recollection, it was over three hours of meeting.
At this point we are discussing a rally (as well as other activities) and putting open carriers on their streets as much as we can. OFF is apparently on board with this approach. With the city's reliance on tourism (guessing a lot from California), ensuring that OC is performed where those tourists will best see it is the idea. Give them a feel for how it will be as the only "ban city" in Southern Oregon.
This morning Jefferson Public Radio did a segment (I didn't hear that) on this issue. I did hear a pretty balanced report on the issue that featured a couple that was carrying at the meeting as well as a few comments from those who testified (from both sides) but it was only about 2.5 minutes.
WHAT TO DO NOW:
If you're in the Southern Oregon area, go to http://LibertyAshland.org and at least get on the mailing list. THAT is the central clearing house and point of contact for the "Battle in Ashland".
Last night it was standing room only (plus overflow).
BOTTOM LINE: The Council voted to have city staff research and come back with a gun ban ordinance minus the "vehicle provisions".
AFTER THE MEETING:
As the Patriots were discussing our next steps outside the building, near the parking lot, Councilor Voisin received an ARMED (Police) ESCORT TO HER CAR. I guess it's okay to advocate for the disarmament of the people when you can get an armed escort for yourself. This seems to be stereotypical of those who advocate for disarming the "peons".
DURING THE MEETING
Public comments on the issue came from over 30 people with the testimony almost evenly split pro / con with pro 2A supporters having 1 more LOCAL Ashlandite (most of those who testified were from Ashland) and 3 more total supporters. Comments from pro 2A speakers were based on personal experiences, logic, individual rights, and some emotional arguments. One female speaker who had been attacked (no details but the emotional level indicated it was a life changing event) stated she had personally spoken with Voisin who told her that they had good programs for victims.
Comments from anti 2A speakers were predominantly based on emotions and fear though there were a couple of doctors who stated they saw the effects of gun violence on children all the time (and supposedly work in Ashland). I'm not sure where all these gun victims are coming from when the Chief of Police has stated that there have only been two incidents in which a weapon was actually fired (in the last five years). Some of the speakers were just outright unbelievable.
1) Former Army artilleryman stated that the number one rule of gun safety was to never have a round chambered when carrying. STRANGE.....As a retired Marine, I never heard that. Perhaps he confused handguns and Artillery pieces? I would never transport or "carry" and artillery piece with "one in the chamber". I'm pretty sure the top two safety rules are 1) don't point the business end and anything you don't want destroyed (that was way down HIS list) and 2) Keep your damn trigger off the "bang switch".
2) One lady (who had earlier spoken in public forum asking the Council to attend an anti GMO event) talked about having moved to Ashland from California. She then told a story of having been on an airplane with a man who said he was an "arms dealer and sold machine guns and had them in a shed in his backyard". She explained how she was so frightened and called the FBI to report him after she landed. She then went on to tell how she'd had a gun pointed at her by a kid in downtown Ashland and had been frightened but no one would help her. She went to the police and they didn't help her either. According to her it turned out to be a toy gun. Not sure how she found that out if no one helped her.
AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING there was some discussion and then:
Voisin moved to approve the ban ordinance, seconded by Marsh. After discussion that looked to be a 4-2 WIN or a 3-3 tie (with Mayor Stromberg having basically, almost directly, stated that if it comes to him on a tie he would vote against).
The anti's revised their goal and moved to have staff come back with an ordinance without the vehicle provisions as MORRIS had stated that the vehicle provisions were the most problematic for him. The caused him to flip and the vote was 4-2 to have staff bring back an ordinance for a loaded ban without the vehicle provisions.
The vote then went 4-2 With MORRIS flipping (on the basis of removing the vehicle provisions) and Slattery voted for it "to allow more discussion" and fact gathering (political play?). He also went on record as reversing his previous stance that the issue should go before the voters rather than be a close vote from the Council.
There was quite a bit of discussion that this type of regulation needs to be pursued at the state level due to preemption.
The above is my best recollection, it was over three hours of meeting.
At this point we are discussing a rally (as well as other activities) and putting open carriers on their streets as much as we can. OFF is apparently on board with this approach. With the city's reliance on tourism (guessing a lot from California), ensuring that OC is performed where those tourists will best see it is the idea. Give them a feel for how it will be as the only "ban city" in Southern Oregon.
This morning Jefferson Public Radio did a segment (I didn't hear that) on this issue. I did hear a pretty balanced report on the issue that featured a couple that was carrying at the meeting as well as a few comments from those who testified (from both sides) but it was only about 2.5 minutes.
WHAT TO DO NOW:
If you're in the Southern Oregon area, go to http://LibertyAshland.org and at least get on the mailing list. THAT is the central clearing house and point of contact for the "Battle in Ashland".
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I've only ever heard this for single-action revolvers.
That's too bad that Ashland is going to waste taxpayer money on a law that has no positive impact.
We-the-People
Regular Member
It's not a done deal yet. Last night's vote was ONLY to direct staff to draft a new loaded ban ordinance without the vehicle provisions (i.e. loaded carry in vehicle would be excepted from the ban).
That doesn't mean that the vote will go either way so the "fight" is still on.
DaveT319
Regular Member
Wow, THAT'S reassuring...
I think we'd all rather they have programs to NOT BE A VICTIM, like letting citizens arm themselves.
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
Wow, THAT'S reassuring...
Some people build a livelihood on the "victim" title (see the Brady bunch or Gabby Giffords, for starters).
At some point, it becomes more acceptable to be a victim, be one of the sheep, than to stand out as an independent soul who has taken responsibility for your own safety (and actions).
DaveT319
Regular Member
Yep. Sad.
LibertyAshland
Regular Member
Save the date
SAVE THE DATE
ASHLAND OPEN (CARRY) DAY
SATURDAY MARCH 29th 2014
10 am - 2 pm
More information to follow...
SAVE THE DATE
ASHLAND OPEN (CARRY) DAY
SATURDAY MARCH 29th 2014
10 am - 2 pm
More information to follow...
LibertyAshland
Regular Member
Better yet, visit follow and share:
facebook.com/libertyashland
More suitable and useful than the website...
WHAT TO DO NOW:
If you're in the Southern Oregon area, go to http://LibertyAshland.org and at least get on the mailing list. THAT is the central clearing house and point of contact for the "Battle in Ashland".[/QUOTE]
facebook.com/libertyashland
More suitable and useful than the website...
WHAT TO DO NOW:
If you're in the Southern Oregon area, go to http://LibertyAshland.org and at least get on the mailing list. THAT is the central clearing house and point of contact for the "Battle in Ashland".[/QUOTE]
I do not know where Ashland is, but is seems that the Constitution is being misunderstood by a lot of people. Can we the people just enjoy our lives and stop being picked on?
I am going to send some emails for you folks over in Ashland...
I am going to send some emails for you folks over in Ashland...
LibertyAshland
Regular Member
And in so doing, he has - deliberatley or not - done liberty a huge service!
LibertyAshland
Regular Member
It's the first small City you don't stop and visit as you enter Oregon on the I-5, having come over the large natural obstacle seperating us from the madness further South.
To do so (comment) go here: http://www.ashland.or.us/CouncilContact.asp
Please be polite! Many of the Council are not down with this ordinance!!
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LibertyAshland
Regular Member
Ashland open (carry) day!
At the request of City of Ashland Council members who wish to see just what the response to an unwarranted and unnecessary infringement of The People's natural right to bear arms would look like, LIBERTY! Ashland and Oregon Firearms Federation (OFF) declare:
SATURDAY MARCH 29th 2014
10 am to 2 pm
ASHLAND OPEN (CARRY) DAY
All peaceful and law abiding citizens and residents (from near and far) who are concerned with the trend of (all levels of) Government attempting to solve non-existent problems with ordinances and laws that are divisive and intolerant, and a clear infringement of liberty, may wish to join local residents Openly Carrying firearms and exercising their rights!
Participants are invited to:
1. Wear Red – help make a visual statement too, Red is LIBERTY! Ashland's color of choice.
2. Visit with locals in Lithia Park for a Brunch BBQ between 10 am and 12 noon to,
a) Sign our counter petition, and
b) Make a donation of canned and/or dried food that we can donate to the Ashland Food Bank in the name of lawful gun carrying residents, and
c) Enjoy a free bite to eat (if you're Open Carrying!), and
3. Be polite and courteous with all you meet, and be prepared to explain why this matters to you in a way that even the most fearful hoplophobe can hear and understand! This is a chance to win friends and allies not make enemies or alienate our friends and neighbors, and
4. Expect the APD to treat them respectfully, something they have a good reputation for amongst the Open Carry community. And to treat them with the same level of courtesy you expect from them if they make contact with you.
5. Be safe.
At the request of City of Ashland Council members who wish to see just what the response to an unwarranted and unnecessary infringement of The People's natural right to bear arms would look like, LIBERTY! Ashland and Oregon Firearms Federation (OFF) declare:
SATURDAY MARCH 29th 2014
10 am to 2 pm
ASHLAND OPEN (CARRY) DAY
All peaceful and law abiding citizens and residents (from near and far) who are concerned with the trend of (all levels of) Government attempting to solve non-existent problems with ordinances and laws that are divisive and intolerant, and a clear infringement of liberty, may wish to join local residents Openly Carrying firearms and exercising their rights!
Participants are invited to:
1. Wear Red – help make a visual statement too, Red is LIBERTY! Ashland's color of choice.
2. Visit with locals in Lithia Park for a Brunch BBQ between 10 am and 12 noon to,
a) Sign our counter petition, and
b) Make a donation of canned and/or dried food that we can donate to the Ashland Food Bank in the name of lawful gun carrying residents, and
c) Enjoy a free bite to eat (if you're Open Carrying!), and
3. Be polite and courteous with all you meet, and be prepared to explain why this matters to you in a way that even the most fearful hoplophobe can hear and understand! This is a chance to win friends and allies not make enemies or alienate our friends and neighbors, and
4. Expect the APD to treat them respectfully, something they have a good reputation for amongst the Open Carry community. And to treat them with the same level of courtesy you expect from them if they make contact with you.
5. Be safe.
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LibertyAshland
Regular Member
Ashland's 1st bi-annual Open Carry Day
If you are planning on coming to Ashland please write The City Council a message to let them know, and why.
Let them know you'll keep coming back, because you can.
Likewise, if for some reason (too little notice) you are unable to come this next weekend, then please also write to them and tell them you will be here in spirit, and that you WILL be sure to attend the next open carry day and everyone thereafter!!
Messages can be sent at this link to all the members and the mayor and go on the city record:
http://www.ashland.or.us/CouncilContact.asp
Please be polite, professional and courteous. Many of the Council are aware of their responsibilities under the law, and are not friends of this ordinance.
If you are planning on coming to Ashland please write The City Council a message to let them know, and why.
Let them know you'll keep coming back, because you can.
Likewise, if for some reason (too little notice) you are unable to come this next weekend, then please also write to them and tell them you will be here in spirit, and that you WILL be sure to attend the next open carry day and everyone thereafter!!
Messages can be sent at this link to all the members and the mayor and go on the city record:
http://www.ashland.or.us/CouncilContact.asp
Please be polite, professional and courteous. Many of the Council are aware of their responsibilities under the law, and are not friends of this ordinance.
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We-the-People
Regular Member
My GF and I attended yesterdays Ashland event. NBC had a reporter at the get together, and did a couple of interviews. After the "party" broke up a good number of red shirt wearing activists "occupied" the Ashland Plaza to spread the word. My GF and I and a couple others walked up the main drag and, due to an large scary black firearm got noticed quite a bit. Reactions were mixed from support to questions as to why (answered by explaining that we were demonstrating what would happen far more frequently should the proposed ban pass and that the big scary black weapon was ONLY because of their attack on our rights), some quite negative comments (under their breath after they passed by) and one young kid who ran away. Grandma explained that "with all the school shootings" her granddaughter was afraid of us. Talk about indoctrination and brain washing!!!!
Overall, reactions seemed to be mostly supportive and/or opposed to the ban because it would bring more weapons onto Ashland's streets......just as the council has been told.
My favorites....."that's scaring me".....well ummmmm why in the world are you approaching me and "confronting" me? Must not ACTUALLY be that scared huh?
Let's hope the Council sees that their streets being awash in firearms is the unintended consequence they have been warmed about.
Overall, reactions seemed to be mostly supportive and/or opposed to the ban because it would bring more weapons onto Ashland's streets......just as the council has been told.
My favorites....."that's scaring me".....well ummmmm why in the world are you approaching me and "confronting" me? Must not ACTUALLY be that scared huh?
Let's hope the Council sees that their streets being awash in firearms is the unintended consequence they have been warmed about.