CADL seeks to outlaw OC in Michigan

[Haman J.T.]

My thought on this, if OC is brandishing then all patrol cops are brandishing.

True!That would make all LEO's bad,like they are in Communist countries!Obama's dream state!

 

[Haman J.T.]

Wow, BE. I seldom disagree with you, but I certainly do on this one.

The person who carried the LGOC into the library did it for reasons that were both sound, and commendable. The following is my response to a similar position taken by the anti OC Fudds at MGO, it fits here so Im quoting myself. :

Sure, blame MOC for what a non member did. MOC deserves credit for stepping up to the plate for attacks on gun owners despite the fact that "shotgun boy" isnt even a member. Kudos MOC.

BTW, "shotgun boy", deserves a medal for exercising his rights when they were challenged, Too many don't have the nuts for that. We should be thanking him for his part in bringing this PRE EXISTING problem out of the closet where it can be dealt with.

TRUE! NOW IS THE TIME TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS out in the open where everyone can see and its time to quit cowering from the PC fools!LETS ACT LIKE WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE according to our founding Documents!This is a small thing to fret over compared to shedding our blood in sacrifice for LIBRERTY! CARRY ON!

 

[Haman J.T.]

having an idiot who can't keep his nose clean and stay out of trouble ever is not one I want representing me. if you find that okay then speak for yourself please. My history of defending gun rights goes way back into the 1970's and guess what? I never once made myself the cause or tried to be some celebrity. These actions by three people are the actions of people who are not out for your good they are SELF serving and dangerous and some have a distinct reputation with Law Enforcement as being trouble long before they decided to take up this cause.

Maybe we should call OJ Simpson to represent us? he's well known and gets attention. There are two kinds of attention, positive and negative and we rally behind those who always gain negative attention? You don't see a problem here? if not call Pearl Vision for an appointment.

Idiots who constantly cause problems with Law Enforcement do not represent me. PERIOD!

What shocks me is the complete lack of moral courage here and those who fail to state the obvious out of fear of being somehow unpopular.

As individuals we are only responsible for our own actions.Thats why our nation was founded on individual rights.We each represent ourselves!

 

[xmanhockey7]

True!That would make all LEO's bad,like they are in Communist countries!Obama's dream state!

They are specifically exempt from brandishing but I know what you mean and I do agree that open carry is not brandishing.

 

[detroit_fan]

Not saying you're wrong.. maybe you did see some of this, but I didn't see much, if anyone saying that we were going to win rd. one... I heard much of just the opposite... that we expected to LOSE, especially given the judge and her obvious bias...

As far as rd. 2, I think people are scared s***less... and they should be! It's scary as hell!!!

I was more referring to peoples attitude before we knew who the judge was going to be. When the case was initiated I saw a lot of people who said it would be thrown out right away, those attitudes changed when we saw we had a liberal activist judge. I just really hope we get some serious help this time, like NRA, SAF, GOA, MCRGO, or something. MGO is great, but we need more power to help them this time IMO.

 

[Bailenforcer]

yes you have a good point, but all too many people here rally around the three I have warned everyone about since before the ponderosa debacle.

if we allow them to defacto represent us or claim to, eventually there will be a sh*t storm and everyone here will get a mouthful. It's long overdue to say enough of the stupid antics for the sake of making themselves media attention whores. There is a right way and wrong way to peel an onion. The wrong way will bring many tears. All too many have risked everything doing it the right way to have a few bring it all down by acting like attention whores sucking up to the cameras, and destroying decades of work for some in the venture to educate people. Also those who love to shoot the messenger are very much as responsible for the negative outcomes here over this CADL stupidity created by a few people who have time and time again created nothing but ill will for open carry. What amazes me is all the bickering about these idiots behind the scenes and the voices of opposition who will yell and scream over coffee yet here won't open their mouths and say it's enough already. Cowardice comes in many forms.

Many have left Open carry who did a great service for it and left over the very things we are now tormenting over here. We ignored them and allowed them to leave in disgust yet still rally behind those few who repeatedly bring us grief for their own reasons, absent any true love for the cause. Like Mom always said it only takes a "few" apples to ruin the whole barrel. For those who think attacking me will solve the problem I wonder where you will be when the house of cards created by the few comes down on everyone? I am betting those mouths will flee into the void of the Internet only to surface later saying I told you so despite their present rally behind those who caused all this ill will. It always happens that way.

I have said what I am saying now long before the Ponderosa P.R. disaster caused by the very same people, I was ignored then when I told everyone it was being handled all wrong as I will be ignored now, and when the dust settles and we lost our open carry rights due to the utter and sheer stupidity of a few who will you all blame?

As individuals we are only responsible for our own actions.Thats why our nation was founded on individual rights.We each represent ourselves!

 

[Haman J.T.]

I was more referring to peoples attitude before we knew who the judge was going to be. When the case was initiated I saw a lot of people who said it would be thrown out right away, those attitudes changed when we saw we had a liberal activist judge. I just really hope we get some serious help this time, like NRA, SAF, GOA, MCRGO, or something. MGO is great, but we need more power to help them this time IMO.

I believe most of us were optimistic that the law would be easily followed,but we were forced to go to plan B with the same hopes of a judge who will follow the law according to Article 1 Sec. 6. CARRY ON!

 

[xd shooter]

Bailenforcer, I'm sure glad you weren't one of our Founding Fathers...

Please answer this simple question, Was the person or persons in question, who you feel stepped over the line, pushed the boundaries, played attention whore, whatever you want to call them, perfectly within their rights?

 

[Bikenut]

-snip-

Please answer this simple question, Was the person or persons in question, who you feel stepped over the line, pushed the boundaries, played attention whore, whatever you want to call them, perfectly within their rights?

I would add..... perfectly within their legal rights.....

That is, in my opinion, a very important question for folks to ask themselves when they are inclined to complain about those who brought the library's "no guns" policy, the policy that was already in place before any incident occurred, into the bright light of day.

And adding the word "legal" is important because the folks who are being condemned were engaged in exercising their right in a legal manner... they violated no laws. But are being excoriated for what some consider to be the crime of offending people.

Another, I think to be an even more important, question folks need to ask themselves is:

"Will I allow my personal feelings about some individuals blind me to the larger picture of the right to bear arms being once again under attack?"

 

[1245A Defender]

well,,

I would add..... perfectly within their legal rights.....

That is, in my opinion, a very important question for folks to ask themselves when they are inclined to complain about those who brought the library's "no guns" policy, the policy that was already in place before any incident occurred, into the bright light of day.

And adding the word "legal" is important because the folks who are being condemned were engaged in exercising their right in a legal manner... they violated no laws. But are being excoriated for what some consider to be the crime of offending people.

Another, I think to be an even more important, question folks need to ask themselves is:

"Will I allow my personal feelings about some individuals blind me to the larger picture of the right to bear arms being once again under attack?"

thank you bike,,, well asked, we cant let the big picture blank out the small picture.

and "be my bud" request sent.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

I would add..... perfectly within their legal rights.....

That is, in my opinion, a very important question for folks to ask themselves when they are inclined to complain about those who brought the library's "no guns" policy, the policy that was already in place before any incident occurred, into the bright light of day.

And adding the word "legal" is important because the folks who are being condemned were engaged in exercising their right in a legal manner... they violated no laws. But are being excoriated for what some consider to be the crime of offending people.

Another, I think to be an even more important, question folks need to ask themselves is:

"Will I allow my personal feelings about some individuals blind me to the larger picture of the right to bear arms being once again under attack?"

I would generally agree, however, the founding fathers broke the law, Rosa Parks broke the law.

In this case, you are right, however, some laws are immoral.

 

[Tucker6900]

And still, separation in the herd.

I have been going back and forth with this for a while and have decided something.

Regardless of the mode of carry, we are all in this fight together.

Im tired of the tip toe tactics that some of us are employing.

Ive seen people on this site be all for open carry. Long guns, and pistols.

But then there are people who believe we should be able to to have our second amendment rights without question, but then try to limit other peoples second amendment rights because they dont believe they should be able to carry long guns. Or they fear that the people making the rules will not like it.

Here is a tip.

We have rights. Those rights are not to be violated, regulated, or changed. We have the right to keep and bear arms. You are either for it, or against it. I think its time we all choose a side. Open carry should not be the issue. The fact that there are people trying to violate our 2nd amendment rights should be the issue. To hell with how its done, we need to stand up for our rights. Choose a side. Your either for us, or against us.

Like I said before, Im sick of walking on egg shells around the "sheep" because my rights offend them.

 

[stainless1911]

I agree Tucker, this is a divide and conquer tactic. The CC people, the anti LGOC people, the inept NRA, and the FUdds are going to bring this down if we dont get together.

 

[springerdave]

This issue is not that "some in your face idiot" did something LEGAL, it is, however about tyranny. Which is what the CADL rule+leftist judge amounts to. Period.springerdave.

 

[Venator]

yes you have a good point, but all too many people here rally around the three I have warned everyone about since before the ponderosa debacle.

if we allow them to defacto represent us or claim to, eventually there will be a sh*t storm and everyone here will get a mouthful. It's long overdue to say enough of the stupid antics for the sake of making themselves media attention whores. There is a right way and wrong way to peel an onion. The wrong way will bring many tears. All too many have risked everything doing it the right way to have a few bring it all down by acting like attention whores sucking up to the cameras, and destroying decades of work for some in the venture to educate people. Also those who love to shoot the messenger are very much as responsible for the negative outcomes here over this CADL stupidity created by a few people who have time and time again created nothing but ill will for open carry. What amazes me is all the bickering about these idiots behind the scenes and the voices of opposition who will yell and scream over coffee yet here won't open their mouths and say it's enough already. Cowardice comes in many forms.

Many have left Open carry who did a great service for it and left over the very things we are now tormenting over here. We ignored them and allowed them to leave in disgust yet still rally behind those few who repeatedly bring us grief for their own reasons, absent any true love for the cause. Like Mom always said it only takes a "few" apples to ruin the whole barrel. For those who think attacking me will solve the problem I wonder where you will be when the house of cards created by the few comes down on everyone? I am betting those mouths will flee into the void of the Internet only to surface later saying I told you so despite their present rally behind those who caused all this ill will. It always happens that way.

I have said what I am saying now long before the Ponderosa P.R. disaster caused by the very same people, I was ignored then when I told everyone it was being handled all wrong as I will be ignored now, and when the dust settles and we lost our open carry rights due to the utter and sheer stupidity of a few who will you all blame?

Which three and when did you warn us?

 

[dougwg]

Many here can't seem to comprehend the difference between the government infringing upon a right and an individual CHOOSING which rights to exercise at what times.

Remember when they told us we would be arrested for walking down the street with a holstered pistol...we have changed this with education....education takes time.

It took time (and is still not 100%) for a lawfully carried pistol to be known as legal and for it to NOT cause panic.

It will take time, we must be patient.

 

[dougwg]

Whatever. :cuss:

Let me guess, you would of been the one saying to Rosa Parks "Don't rock the boat, go sit in the back of the bus, the police might come beat us". Or, on 7/4/1776, you would of told the guys wanting to sign the Declaration of Independence "We might ger in trouble!"

I have found that most of the supposed ardent supporters of 2nd amendment rights usually have caveats.

I have little use for people like you.

Yet you have the NRA in your sig...hahahahaha

Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but I think you should go worry about what is happening in your own state and let us take care of things here in Michigan.

 

[xd shooter]

Yet you have the NRA in your sig...hahahahaha

Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but I think you should go worry about what is happening in your own state and let us take care of things here in Michigan.

Not sure I can agree with that attitude. Though I live in MI, I may find myself traveling through WI, and can be affected by their Laws, therefore I support Wisconsin carry in any way I can, and would HOPE that they would reciprocate.

Telling them to stay out of our business is NOT helpful to anyone...Different people have different ideas and opinions, not always good ones true, but I have to say I've learned a lot reading through all the states forums on here, not limiting myself to the MI forum...

I say ALL are welcome, with opinions and thoughts.

 

[dougwg]

Not sure I can agree with that attitude. Though I live in MI, I may find myself traveling through WI, and can be affected by their Laws, therefore I support Wisconsin carry in any way I can, and would HOPE that they would reciprocate.

Telling them to stay out of our business is NOT helpful to anyone...Different people have different ideas and opinions, not always good ones true, but I have to say I've learned a lot reading through all the states forums on here, not limiting myself to the MI forum...

I say ALL are welcome, with opinions and thoughts.

Is he trying to bring us together or just looking for an argument? I believe the later and therefore he is un-needed here.

 

[xd shooter]

A troll is one thing sure, but this is a relevant discussion, with some relevant points being made.

Is it because you disagree with his view that you feel he shouldn't be "here" in the MI forum?

Argue the point, not the person.