carolina guy
Regular Member
looks good...
but the missing spaces betweensome wordsis a littleannoying.
but the missing spaces betweensome wordsis a littleannoying.
but the missing spaces betweensome wordsis a littleannoying.
MWAG call, cop rolls up and sees man with gun (holstered on hip) and dog (on leash). Cop does not see embellished acts, what does the cop do? Hard to say, but in his mind he has RAS.....right?
But, what if there was a 911 call and radio dispatch about a man with a gun and a dog in a park? A 911 call that was just a little bit hysterical or ambiguous? Or, maybe contained some embellishment or exaggeration? Or, maybe the dispatcher misreports by honest mistake to the cop. (Its what the cop observes or is told by dispatch, not what the OCer thinks).
In such a scenario, there is not RAS ... the cop may think so, but his thinking does not make it so. In most states, such a detention would be unlawful .. one does not have to comply if desiring not to.
Just giving people the factual options ... you can not object and sue later or take immediate action ... its up to the person at that time ...
You've missed the whole point of the thread, McBeth. You can almost never know for sure. The OCer who sees "the cop roll up" has no idea what the cop was told by radio.
And the cop may not know ... cops just assume that they can do what they want. The point of the thread is can one determine of RAS is present & one can at times. People look at facts all the time and come to conclusions -- sometimes right, sometimes wrong.
Tell you what, McBeth. You go ahead and be the test case. I promise I will write at least two letters of support--one to the judge, and one the editor of the newspaper with the largest circulation in that area.
I have already refused to be detained when no RAS was there ... oddly enough, I'm still a free man..cops will back down when they know they have an indefensible set of circumstances.
I appreciate your support though .. I may call on you later
Keep the faith brother !
I guess I am kind of confused. What difference does it make at the scene if the police officer has RAS or not and whether or not I believe they have RAS or not? IMHO, the only thing that matters at the scene is if I am being detained or not. Officer approaches me and says, "Can I speak to you for a minute?" or some such question. I ask, "Are you detaining me, officer?" If the answer is yes, then they are detaining me. What difference does it make at the scene if they have RAS? If the are detaining me, I am not free to leave, regardless of if I think their stop is legal or not. It seems to me it is of utmost importance at the scene to establish beyond any reasonable doubt that a detainment is occurring. At the scene, I could not care less if the officer has RAS or not.
If being unlawfully harassed it is important for this reason...... I carry a recorder, I want the cop to talk as much as possible, I want to find different stories he tells, I want to find differences from the truth in what happened and his report, claiming a 911 call when FOIA request shows none, I want him to get pissed at my questions; cause to paraphrase the ole Maranda warning "Everything you say can and will be used in a federal lawsuit, the purpose of which is to destroy your career and the rest of your life".
It is much more important to establish if you are being detained or not, because that is the first thing you will have to prove in court. Were you detained? If the answer that the court finds is "No, the encounter was voluntary" then you have the first strike against you in court. If the answer that the court finds is, "Yes, the police did detain you" then the police/prosecutor have the first strike against them and now the burden of proof falls upon them to prove the detainment had legal grounds.
If in a situation where I believe I am being unlawfully harassed I won't answer any questions but I will be asking as many as I can think of and being a general PITA to get the LEO to step in the deep dodo.
Very true. Answer questions that you want, don't answer those that you shouldn't, sow seeds of confusion where you can.1+ ignore all questions that aren't general social questions (how did you like yesterday's game etc... example).
...
Ask questions to any questions posed that are fishing expeditions (is that gun registered, where are you headed etc...)
Ocf. Bell,"What’s your date of birth?"
CAP, "Twelve… May… Nineteen Fifty-eight."
Ocf. Bell,"May 12th, 1958? What’s your last name?"
CAP, "Same as it shows on my Georgia Weapon’s License. I don’t have a pen, any of you guys have a pen for the gentleman?"
Ocf. Bell,"l I have a pen."
CAP, "You are prepared."
Ocf. Bell, "I’m a professional… You live around here? Do you live around here? … In the immediate area?"
CAP, "You’ve got the cutest eyes."
Sgt. Chapel, "You know, your permit is a privilege as well as a right. It can be taken away from you as well.
Cap: By the Probate Court Judge, would you like the number?"
Sgt. Chapel, "We have the number. And when you’re given a permit you’re expected to cooperate a little bit with law enforcement."
CAP, "Actually, I’m required to cooperate; as required by law.
Sgt. Chapel, "Why aren’t you?
CAP, "What am I not doing that’s required?
Sgt. Chapel, (silence)
CAP, "What Am I Not Doing That’s Required, Sergeant Chapel?
Sgt. Chapel, (silence)
Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, sir, or did you walk here?"
CAP, "What...Am...I...Not...Doing...That’s...Required,...Sergeant Chapel"
Sgt. Chapel, (silence)
Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, or did you walk here?"
CAP, "What...Am...I...Not...Doing...That’s...Required,...Sergeant Chapel?"
Sgt. Chapel, ""There you go, right there.
Why is it so difficult to just ask, "Are you detaining me?"
If the answer is NO, then walk away.
If the answer is YES, then simply provide the minimum information required by state law and answer all other questions with, "I am not required by law to provide that information?"
Why is there a need to mess around with the officer and be a smarta$$?
I prefer, "Am I free to go now?" Almost every lawyer I have read on the subject suggests that precise question. Even if the officer thinks you are not detained, he may also think that you are not free to go. The key is your ability to leave, so directly ask if you can go. Just my take.