imported post
B. Please list the loads that go to 500ft lbs in a 9mm. The 90grain PowerBall only goes to 467ft lbs, the most powerful of the Cor-bon Loads.
Now first of all, let's review what I said:
"The 9mm can reach about 500ft.lb. in its most powerful forms."
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=119
115gr Gold Dot, cruising along at 1415fps and 511ft.lb. out of a Glock 17 (4.5" BBL), 1395fps out of a Glock 19 (4" BBL), G Money. I don't pull shit out of thin air like you do.
Take a good look at that price while you're in there btw. Not exactly $25/20rds. It's not where I get my ammo, but it's still way less than what you keep saying good 9mm ammo costs. I have continued to drive your claims into the ground, because I'm not a liar. You challenge everything I say, yet time and time again you're proven blatantly wrong with direct evidence.
A. Only in your cherry picked examples. The 210 grain silvertip expands to 0.081 in the picture I have posted in my answer. Compared to the 100 grain "powerball" that's twice the weight, nearly twice the energy and more expansion (0.598 in 9mm to 0.81 in 44). It isn't just how wide the bullet goes, but ALL factors.
First of all, once again you're ignoring what I said and adding in other factors. I only addressed your idiotic claims on expansion, the rest you're just adding in to make yourself feel smart. Everybody in here knows that expansion is not the only performance number. I've told you this myself repeatedly, but again, I was talking only about expansion.
My tests certainly weren't cherry picked, if they had been I'd have gone straight for Federal's HST and provided nothing else. I directly linked each test (Something you've failed to do) and you can easily look at all of the tests on there and on other websites. You won't find anything but evidence proving you wrong. It's just not uncommon at all for a 9mm to reach the kind of expansion numbers I provided (ie - the .7" range).
I'm "cherry picking?!" :uhoh:
In the above quote you picked the lowest expansion numbers I linked in 9mm form and then provided the highest expansion numbers you could find in .44 Magnum form (With no direct link provided either, although I do believe it's certainly possible). The other 9mm bullets I linked were in the .7" range, but you conveniently left those out in your comparison. Instead you picked the one that expanded to .598" and then wrote in the largest expansion for a .44Mag bullet that you could find. I can do that too, watch this:
The 9mm expands to .771", while the .44 Magnum expands to .556". This is a difference of .215" in favor of the 9mm. So, using your logic, the 9mm has more expansion than the .44 Magnum. See how easy that was? Nothing about that was bullshit either. The .556" average expansion for the .44 Magnum Hydrashok can clearly be seen in the link I provided further up on this page. The .771" expansion (And 13.5" penetration just so you know, a bit more than your "cherry picked" claims of "9, 10 and 11 inches," wouldn't you say?) of Federal's 147gr 9mm HST (Which I can buy in +P form for a whopping $19.95/50rds) can clearly be seen on page 6 of this Wound Ballistics Seminar:
http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/LosAngelesWBW.pdf
Do you still not see the failure in your logic? One example taking the worst expansion results you find in one caliber and the best you find in another doesn't cut it.
This is the reason I provided multiple links to multiple tests that showed a wide range of expansions in BOTH calibers. TO SHOW YOU THE NUMBERS WERE NOT "CHERRY PICKED."
Oh and btw, .081" is HORRIBLE expansion for a .44 Magnum. In fact, it's massive negative expansion, ie - compression...
And for the 100th time, I was never talking about stopping power, penetration, bullet weight or velocity. I did mention penetration in this post because you brought up some cherry picked claims on 9mm penetration, and I mentioned bullet weight in the post with the links simply to differentiate between rounds.
I was only addressing your false claims on expansion, which were obviously a result of ignorance. Now that you've been proven wrong about what I was trying to tell you, you're resorting to childish tactics to feel smart. Things like acting like I'm arguing that the 9mm is "more powerful," cherry picking from single tests (The .44Mag numbers you provided are unsubstantiated btw), going to random websites for terrible pricing on Personal Defense ammunition when I clearly stated Federal, Speer and Winchester
Law Enforcement ammunition.
Again, I do NOT lie, cheat or steal. I do not pull shit out of thin air. I don't change things to make "my caliber" look good. I just told you that your claims are wrong and did so with substantial evidence. You just can't accept that for whatever reason. You have to "win" by changing the argument, changing what you said, and bending the truth through your biased "examples." You don't provide multiple numbers or direct links, you just give these general links because you know you're wrong, period. Your statement was that a .44 Magnum is an already expanded 9mm. That is WRONG.
C. As anyone can see from visiting the Cor-bon Website, their loads are $22.00 per 20 rounds. Midway sells Federal Permium Personal defense ammo in 9mm for $20.00 per box, Winchester Silvertip for $36.00 per box. This is without shipping. Retail is even worse. Could you please direct us to the magical land you know of with +p and +p+ ammo for $15.00 a box of 50.
It's not magic, G, I buy them for that amount of money. And hell no I'm not going to tell an ass like you where to get cheap law enforcement ammo. Anyone that wants to know can PM me, lord knows I've told a few folks. Again, this is what I pay:
Federal 9BPLE 115r +P+ - $14.95 / 50rds
Winchester Ranger 115gr +P+ - $19.95 / 50rds
Federal Tactical HST (124gr or 147gr) +P - $19.95 / 50rds
I buy brand new 12ga Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 1oz. Slugs, Federal Tactical Low Recoil Hydrashok 1oz Slugs and Federal Tactical Low Recoil 9 Pellet 00 Buckshot with "flitecontrol" wad at $15 to $16 for 25 shells. Are you going to call be a liar on that one too?
Don't pull everyone else into your little argument either. It's not "us," it's you that wants to know. I guarantee you if you ask a number of people in here they will tell you the exact same thing. You simply don't know what you're talking about and can't admit it. Again, I don't lie, period. I have purchased the ammunition for that price time and time again. It's not a one time deal at some gun show or some other bullshit. It's that price, always, from where I always purchase brand new Law Enforcement ammunition from Winchester, Federal and occasionally Speer.
D. Again, I think it is GREAT that you like your gun and think it is reliable. Really, I am very happy for you. Again, so even you can understand, MOST people have issues with unreliability in their autopistols, which is why the aftermarket is full of items to increase relaibility in their autopistols, Magazines, barrels, guide rods, ejectors, extractors, springs, shock buffs, folllowers, etc.
Again, I was just pointing out the error in your statements.
E. People love to think that because the diameter is larger to begin with that it, by laws of physics, MUST expand to a larger diameter. Without actually verifying this, you're simply spreading misinformation though. "
Sigh. The point is that a bullet is already a larger diameter before it expands, so even if it fails to expand, it will cause more damage and deliver more energy to the target than a narrower bullet. Because it does not have to feed through a magazine, slide up a feed ramp, etc it is more likely TO expand than a auto pistol round, leaving aside the clothing issue.
Then next time, say that. That is quite different from what you said here:
Caliber? Compared to a 9mm, the 0.429 bullet is already expanded when it hits the perp.
You can do the math yourself, weak9mm. As to the book, you will have to buy it and read it yourself.
Again with the making yourself feel smart. You're the one ignoring the numbers and changing what you said. You're also acting like my argument somehow includes things I keep telling you I'm not talking about. I have done the reading on many calibers, you on the other hand only do reading on the calibers you use apparently. Otherwise you'd never have made the statement about a .44 Magnum bullet being "an already expanded 9mm bullet."
Also, everything I've told you I've substantiated. Nothing you've said in relation to my correction to your original statement has been substantiated. You provide general links and tell me I'll have to go "do research" myself. I've obviously already done the research, as I'm the one providing you with all of the information. You're so blown away by the fact that I can get excellent ammunition for $15 to $20 for 50rds that you basically imply that I'm a liar (Hmmmm, are you regretting your choice of caliber or something? :lol: ). You're also so stubborn that you resort to "cherry picking" results in the very same post in which you call me a "cherry picker." These tactics really are pathetic.
You can't win an argument that you lost from the beginning. You should have just left it alone, as I keep proving your responses to the corrections I presented wrong.
Look at what we have here... Hmm, it seems to be two invoices.... Oh man, look at that, I paid even less than I thought for that ammo!!!