Almost willing to bet that their reply will be, "We do not give legal advice" or refer you to DCJS.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Chesapeake General Hospital Public Hospital - Claiming to be private property
- Thread starter Thundar
- Start date
Almost willing to bet that their reply will be, "We do not give legal advice" or refer you to DCJS.
The person that was the primary motivator in this (OP) has moved away from the immediate area of the hospital and no longer finds it practical to pursue the matter. Somebody else needs to pick up the ball.
I see the discussion of security officers relevant as their actions effect how and where we can carry and charges that might be brought for trespassing amongst other things.
Agree that this side discussion is OT and probably belongs in a separate thread.
It is being worked on Grape...quietly.
The Hospital has taken a "Sue us" attitude.
They aren't open to reason. There are a couple of directions that can be taken. One is to sue. You need both standing and money to burn for that.
The second is to bring it to the attention of the GA and the OP has given very good correspondence.to do that and the reaction is that they are 100% incorrect.
I doubt seriously that the statute could be amended this year but it is another nail in the coffin. Preemption needs to be amended to cover State agencies and this is just one of several cases to rely on for that change.
I could really care less what the SO's think, want or might do.
Agree that the GA is the place to solve these problems, once and for all.
I hope to that preemption could be so extended to cover this also.
Where is Bob McD?
Busy BSing gunowners:lol:
kenny
Regular Member
I suspect the hospital issue will eventually pushed aside and/or forgotten just like the Guns in Shelters issue. The medical lobby and the nurse lobby is a strong one in the Commonwealth. I said last year the guns in shelter issue would not pass and it did not. I am saying guns in posted hospitals will not work either. No code, no cite just years of experience as a Virginian being around hospitals and shelter training.
TFred
Regular Member
This bill was illegally killed in the Senate's Special Death Committee. That doesn't count. Most of those bills were heading for passage, which is why they set up this committee to kill them.
It had already passed the House by a 3-1 margin.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+sum+HB1070
TFred
That's true Tfred and unless someone pulls a rabbit out of their hat, we will have the same thing again.
Kenny, you don't go after a medical bill. You just have the wording cleaned up to prevent agencies from ignoring the existing law. It's just like dog hunters. I can't get a bill through the Ag Committee so I just did an end run and it will pass without anyone knowing it pertains to dog hunting.
wylde007
Regular Member
And Southron.
kenny
Regular Member
Peter,
There are issues with Shelters and Hospitals that exist where guns just do not mix with them. In the statewide shelter plan 95% of all planned shelters are/will be in schools so there is no question in my mind about how that issue will play out.
In hospitals they go after something called Joint Commission accreditation. Which is a national consensus rating system on how hospitals should operate. Guns are not part of that picture. I can't see that policy changing either. The government in VA does not run the shelters, the Red Cross does. So even if they used a building other than a school there would still be no guns allowed.
I wish it were different too.
I will say this much, if by some way our GA allows guns in shelters and hospitals in my life time I'll buy you dinner.
He likes his steak big and rare. :lol:
Actually Kenny, they do now. They just won't admit it. Preemption does apply to State Authority's and most admit it so it's not an issue with them. The law needs to clarify that and that will not only correct many state agency misunderstandings, but hospitals set up under authority rule as well.
All the legislators I've discussed this with agree that both state agencies and Authority's were intended to be covered by preemption.This has been reinforced by past AG Opinions..at least in part. Unfortunately, Virginia is a weak legislative intent state, and the proper way to handle it is just clean up the language.
If left to some people, the language will get changed to only allow CHP's to carry in certain places. Thanks to a certain big mouth at the beach, I decided I wasn't going to just sit it out this year.
The way to avoid falling under Preemption is not set yourself up as an Authority. If you want public money, you have to play by public rules. BTW, I don't like to eat in the City.:lol:
Private Hospitals can do as they wish. I have no idea how you wedged emergency shelters in this but lets discuss them when they come up....like never. I wouldn't set foot in a shelter for anything on earth, so they don't concern me.
I do unfortunately, get carted to a hospital once in a while while unconscious.
All the legislators I've discussed this with agree that both state agencies and Authority's were intended to be covered by preemption.This has been reinforced by past AG Opinions..at least in part. Unfortunately, Virginia is a weak legislative intent state, and the proper way to handle it is just clean up the language.
If left to some people, the language will get changed to only allow CHP's to carry in certain places. Thanks to a certain big mouth at the beach, I decided I wasn't going to just sit it out this year.
The way to avoid falling under Preemption is not set yourself up as an Authority. If you want public money, you have to play by public rules. BTW, I don't like to eat in the City.:lol:
Private Hospitals can do as they wish. I have no idea how you wedged emergency shelters in this but lets discuss them when they come up....like never. I wouldn't set foot in a shelter for anything on earth, so they don't concern me.
I do unfortunately, get carted to a hospital once in a while while unconscious.
kenny
Regular Member
That is good information to know. It will save me some money. We can just meet on the farm and get it as fresh as it can be. Since I don't know of any farms in the city it looks like we will have to meet in a county somewhere. I can fix him up with all the Black Angus he can eat if he doesn't a short ride.
kenny
Regular Member
The shelter issue came up early in the last GA. I read about it in a VCDL email. I would never reside in a disaster shelter either. However I've managed my share of them and taught hundreds of others how to manage them.
I threw it in as one of those places that will never change on its own. But I'm with you, we can save that until the issue comes up again. Their was quite a discussion here in the past.
It will be interesting to see how and if the hospital issue resolved.
I have a couple dozen Black Angus within five minutes. I'll butcher one next month. Maybe we'll do it then:lol:
jegoodin
Newbie
There is no question or module on the JCAHO survey that addresses firearm possession in treatment facilities. The only reference to firearms is on their "SAFE-T" suicide prevention protocol assessment form that deals with a person deemed at risk for suicide having access to a firearm in the home.
Uber_Olafsun
Regular Member
Also to make sure that patients under suicide watch do not have access to anything that they could use to harm themselves. Most curtains in their rooms are attached with Velcro or they just black out the windows so they can't hang themselves. I have attended a lot of environment of care meetings and firearms were never even discussed at the ones I was at. They discuss how security responds to events (code strong, paging dr atlas and a few others) to find out how it was escalated to a point that the response was needed and how it was handled.
kenny
Regular Member
You are correct. However there is something called a Sentinel Event Alert that came out this year addressing the topic of violence that gives them guidance and is a requirement for a facility to keep its accreditation.
TFred
Regular Member
Interesting. Who wins if we can fix preemption and state law directly conflicts with an accreditation mandate?
Preventing violence in the health care setting
I didn't see anything about a total ban on weapons though. I suppose the authors would assume that's a no-brainer and to be a "given".
TFred
Preventing violence in the health care setting
Joint Commission suggested actions
The following are suggested actions that health care organizations can take to prevent assault, rape and homicide in the health care setting. Some of these recommendations are detailed in the HRC issue on “Violence in Healthcare Facilities.”
3. Take extra security precautions in the Emergency Department, especially if the facility is in an area with a high crime rate or gang activity. These precautions can include posting uniformed security officers, and limiting or screening visitors (for example, wanding for weapons or conducting bag checks).
The following are suggested actions that health care organizations can take to prevent assault, rape and homicide in the health care setting. Some of these recommendations are detailed in the HRC issue on “Violence in Healthcare Facilities.”
3. Take extra security precautions in the Emergency Department, especially if the facility is in an area with a high crime rate or gang activity. These precautions can include posting uniformed security officers, and limiting or screening visitors (for example, wanding for weapons or conducting bag checks).
I didn't see anything about a total ban on weapons though. I suppose the authors would assume that's a no-brainer and to be a "given".
TFred