Cite? Innocent Until Proven Guilty

[DrTodd]

When you have an attorney, it is their job to provide a defense. To cross examine witnesses, to pick apart their story, and argue your case. I like Melissa, I really do, but there wasnt much of an argument against the other sides claims. I could have done things a little different, but this should have been won regardless.

IMO they convicted me before court was ever scheduled. The proceedings were just a formality.

First, it is a civil infraction, not a crime. That being the case, the whole process is different than it would be if it were a crime... and it's over with Stainless. These two facts are what severely damages the credibility of Banned's comments both here and "over there". If I were you, and if what he says is not true, I would withhold responding to his taunts, and then, during what seems like an eternity, I would let him construct his own noose. He's done that pretty well already.

Just when he seems to have lost steam after trying to get you to hang YOURSELF, I would then throw every legal action I could at him. It takes some time, but it is oh so wonderful to watch... and it didn't cost me much more than 50 dollars so you should be good for less than 100. The court of public opinion is a fickle thing, but the court of the state of Michigan trumps it almost every time.

re your case... I understand you are upset about your whole situation but criticising someone for helping you out at no cost? Really, you are better than that.

 

[wardog4life]

She did NOT drop the ball. It wasn't her job to carry the ball. It was YOUR job.

To imply she is at fault at all is BS and you know it Neal.

You got yourself into that mess.

You get yourself into all kinds of messes.

You fail every time trying to get out of the messes you get yourself into.

STOP GETTING INTO MESSES!


As far as Pat goes...he's more childish then my 2 y/o

I broke off ALL contact with him many months ago. He's even tried to contact me several time, I ignore him.
I grew very tired of Pat, Jan Jay, Mike Stillwater, and others extremely childish behavior and have washed my hands of them all.
I don't need to be drug down by them and refuse to be associated with them in anyway shape or form...similar to how I feel about you and the MESSES you get yourself into, I wish to make it crystal clear, I neither advocate nor agree with your antics.

+1,000,000. EXCEPT your statement in regards to Pat. I must state I am very disappointed in this statement. Pat has done more for Michigan Open Carry then you and a bunch of others that claim to support OC. Specifically from a financial stand point. To my knowledge no other citizen in Michigan has donated more personal revenue to various firearms related causes. Including UFO which YOU supported with Silly, Janjay. In which Pat Donated HUNDRED's of his personal finance's. I appreciate your effort and support in all things that maintain common sense in regards to Stainless and his antics. I cannot speak for Pat however can support him. His efforts are of a commitment you would wish to understand...

 

[stainless1911]

Pat is a fudd. He picks and chooses the parts and people of the RKBA he wants to support. He's more a threat to A2 than he accuses me of being.

 

[PDinDetroit]

+1,000,000. EXCEPT your statement in regards to Pat. I must state I am very disappointed in this statement. Pat has done more for Michigan Open Carry then you and a bunch of others that claim to support OC. Specifically from a financial stand point. To my knowledge no other citizen in Michigan has donated more personal revenue to various firearms related causes. Including UFO which YOU supported with Silly, Janjay. In which Pat Donated HUNDRED's of his personal finance's. I appreciate your effort and support in all things that maintain common sense in regards to Stainless and his antics. I cannot speak for Pat however can support him. His efforts are of a commitment you would wish to understand...

Pat was once a member here on OCDO. Ask him why he was banned. Has to take quite a lot to get banned here, stainless1911 hasn't been banned yet! Weren't you banned as well?

As for dougwg, he showed up to speak PUBLICLY at City Council/Commission Meetings and has made a difference doing so. That is far more important than $ in my book. He was one of the people that affected the outcome for the Royal Oak Arts, Beats, and Eats Firearm Carry Issue, which I believe lead to us having Michigan State Police Legal Update #86.

BTW - there are others who have donated large sums as well, but it is not $ that is important, it is the "entire picture" that comes along with a person. I know Pat has donated $ and for that I am grateful, but there are other things that I completely agree with dougwg on and have distanced myself due to these.

 

[stainless1911]

I dont know why Pat was banned, but when he showed up again, I did extend him a hand, and offered him a clean slate. He wasn't interested.

 

[DrTodd]

+1,000,000. EXCEPT your statement in regards to Pat. I must state I am very disappointed in this statement. Pat has done more for Michigan Open Carry then you and a bunch of others that claim to support OC. Specifically from a financial stand point. To my knowledge no other citizen in Michigan has donated more personal revenue to various firearms related causes. Including UFO which YOU supported with Silly, Janjay. In which Pat Donated HUNDRED's of his personal finance's. I appreciate your effort and support in all things that maintain common sense in regards to Stainless and his antics. I cannot speak for Pat however can support him. His efforts are of a commitment you would wish to understand...

I have always enjoyed discussing issues with Pat and am disappointed that he was banned. I also know that he holds the 2nd Amendment very dear... and has matched his beliefs with actions. I respect his thoughts regarding open carry and firearms in general and consider him a staunch ally in the fight to preserve those rights. That being said, I think "personal attacks", no matter how firmly held and by whom believed, have no place here. This goes for anyone, including myself.

It is easy to attach ill intent to many messages posted here... and almost all of us have done that at least once or twice. But this website is for ideas and, although we may not like the behavior of some, we need to get away from the idea that people need to always behave as we think "gun owners" should. We need to be supportive of the 2nd Amendment enough to allow that people are different. As more people in Michigan start carrying, we have to acknowledge that we have no control over their behavior, our "opinions" notwithstanding.

Am I saying that we should not call people out when what they do is egregious? Certainly not. But, there is a difference between criticizing the behavior and criticizing the person, though it may be easy at times for us to forget that.

 

[stainless1911]

Agreed, I could use a little polishing lately too.

 

[PDinDetroit]

agreed, i could use a little polishing lately too.

tmi

 

[wardog4life]

People like Doug and Pat are both great for the community in there own ways. I applaud both of them for giving stainless there honest opinion of his relentless idiocrasies. Regardless of his 2nd amendment rights, regardless of fact or fiction, as I stated in another forum, The Freak and Stainless are the Loreal and Hardy of Open Carry in Michigan. Their antics not only give open carriers a bad name but all firearms owners in Michigan. Regardless of any opinion of what have, should have or could have. The facts are the facts and speak for themselves very clearly. I never said anything about others that have not donated in any capacity. Only that I personally know of half of what Pat has donated. YES financial donation's are need for attorney fee's, court cost's, FOIA, just to name a few. Without these donations precedence would not be set in a court of law. Specifically in which Pat donated to Stainless's own court case were he presented himself in a court of a law as a vagabond of sorts. Lets seriously consider why people like Pat, Doug and myself to name a few are so upset in regards to stainless. Lets consider who more then likely took pictures of Daddy pointing a firearm at the camera and who was holding the camera. Lets consider why an 8 year revocation of his CPL was laid down by the court. Lets consider that an attorney donated her time and this individual has the audacity to question her integrity. Lets consider why a certain individual continues to question the legality of marijuana and handguns... Lets consider why the latest incident even occurred, It sounds to me that they may have been minors. What charges are pending...This is a fraction of the history that some one you follow from this individual. Yes both Pat and myself have been banned. We call it as we see it and if this forum, wishes to continue to ban us for calling out those that need be, So be it...IP are free along with email addy's...In this case there are only two people mentioned above that continue to get called out do to the fact that they are the sole perpetrators of questionable intent in regards to open carry.

 

[PDinDetroit]

People like Doug and Pat are both great for the community in there own ways. I applaud both of them for giving stainless there honest opinion of his relentless idiocrasies. Regardless of his 2nd amendment rights, regardless of fact or fiction, as I stated in another forum, The Freak and Stainless are the Loreal and Hardy of Open Carry in Michigan. Their antics not only give open carriers a bad name but all firearms owners in Michigan. Regardless of any opinion of what have, should have or could have. The facts are the facts and speak for themselves very clearly. I never said anything about others that have not donated in any capacity. Only that I personally know of half of what Pat has donated. YES financial donation's are need for attorney fee's, court cost's, FOIA, just to name a few. Without these donations precedence would not be set in a court of law. Specifically in which Pat donated to Stainless's own court case were he presented himself in a court of a law as a vagabond of sorts. Lets seriously consider why people like Pat, Doug and myself to name a few are so upset in regards to stainless. Lets consider who more then likely took pictures of Daddy pointing a firearm at the camera and who was holding the camera. Lets consider why an 8 year revocation of his CPL was laid down by the court. Lets consider that an attorney donated her time and this individual has the audacity to question her integrity. Lets consider why a certain individual continues to question the legality of marijuana and handguns... Lets consider why the latest incident even occurred, It sounds to me that they may have been minors. What charges are pending...This is a fraction of the history that some one you follow from this individual. Yes both Pat and myself have been banned. We call it as we see it and if this forum, wishes to continue to ban us for calling out those that need be, So be it...IP are free along with email addy's...In this case there are only two people mentioned above that continue to get called out do to the fact that they are the sole perpetrators of questionable intent in regards to open carry.

To make it plain, I have advocated stainless1911's banning from both OCDO and MGO at times when his "antics" cast Firearm Owners in a poor light. I have made FORMAL REQUESTS for it and have not done so as a "Personal Issue". To date, my requests have gone unheeded possibly to the detriment of us all. If you have information on this "8 Year CPL Revocation" I have seen bandied about, please provide it (PM if you cannot Publicly).

I am glad you are here as we need to stand together in the Fight to Protect Rights if at all possible.

 

[stainless1911]

Ok, I agree that pat and doug are good for the movement, pat for the money, not so much for the actual RKBA, he is still struggling with the concept, doug for being a straight shooter, a little growly, but he knows his business. My case was simple, to gain a preponderance of evidence in a CI case. That wasn't done, and I stand on my position that it could have been done with some effort, despite my shortcomings. I may not be everyones favorite, but my dedication to this is unquestionable, as is my unwavering dedication to the RKBA for everyone. I do advocate the freedoms of every individual, including people who smoke marijuana. If they commit a crime while, or as a result of that use, the legal system is not powerless to take such corrections as necessary. You mentioned my daughter pointing a safety checked gun at a camera on a timer. She was 5 or 6 then, and as a result of those "antics", she could, if needed, come across a full sized semi auto, load, charge, and fire in defense and hit what she was defending against. Yes indeed, let us consider an 8 year revocation of my CPL by the courts. When we have the facts available to us. Meanwhile, let us examine the CPL system, what it has done to destroy our rights, and perhaps whether a court should at all, revoke a "right" that predated the .gov itself. Maybe you and Pat get banned as a result of your relentless personal and demeaning attacks on members and not their actions. Lil and I tend to remain on the defensive if at all. When checked, by a member in public, in person, in PM, or by a mod, I comply, and try to fall back in line. I may say do some questionable thingds here and there, but when it comes down to it, I am an active and productive proponent of open carry both online, and off. Most people would pack up and go home after facing half of the opposition that I do, both here, and in everyday life.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Ok, I agree that pat and doug are good for the movement, pat for the money, not so much for the actual RKBA, he is still struggling with the concept, doug for being a straight shooter, a little growly, but he knows his business. My case was simple, to gain a preponderance of evidence in a CI case. That wasn't done, and I stand on my position that it could have been done with some effort, despite my shortcomings. I may not be everyones favorite, but my dedication to this is unquestionable, as is my unwavering dedication to the RKBA for everyone. I do advocate the freedoms of every individual, including people who smoke marijuana. If they commit a crime while, or as a result of that use, the legal system is not powerless to take such corrections as necessary. You mentioned my daughter pointing a safety checked gun at a camera on a timer. She was 5 or 6 then, and as a result of those "antics", she could, if needed, come across a full sized semi auto, load, charge, and fire in defense and hit what she was defending against. Yes indeed, let us consider an 8 year revocation of my CPL by the courts. When we have the facts available to us. Meanwhile, let us examine the CPL system, what it has done to destroy our rights, and perhaps whether a court should at all, revoke a "right" that predated the .gov itself. Maybe you and Pat get banned as a result of your relentless personal and demeaning attacks on members and not their actions. Lil and I tend to remain on the defensive if at all. When checked, by a member in public, in person, in PM, or by a mod, I comply, and try to fall back in line. I may say do some questionable thingds here and there, but when it comes down to it, I am an active and productive proponent of open carry both online, and off. Most people would pack up and go home after facing half of the opposition that I do, both here, and in everyday life.

Your dedication to RKBA is not in question here. You are able to provide good legal cites to people when they ask for help. In this area, you are doing well.

For the rest, you have your shortcomings but truly have refused help and are your own worst enemy. You know from the Public and Private Posts that I have made to you and about you, I only want to see good things happen in your life. I have offered suggestion after suggestion, as have others, yet these go unheeded. These "other items" can cause harm to RKBA, as I and others have explained time and again, but you refuse to see it.

I'll offer this - Greg was my best friend for many years, a great guy, he would help just about anyone, but he was his own worst enemy. I think he is destined to spend the rest of his life in PRISON as he has been in and out of PRISON SINCE 1999 (although currently out since Mid 2011). It saddens me, but even I was not able to "reach him". He, like you, would play the "victim card" and blame anyone else that he could.

Please do not be like Greg.

 

[stainless1911]

I dont ignore the advice in any way, but putting it into practice is not the financially responsible at this time.

 

[stainless1911]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLYlkgqX9qg