Crime commission to seek action against cigarette trafficking - Violent Crime

[Thundar]

Bottom line is the recommendations that come out will to be to raise taxes on tobacco.
The new administration has already said they need more revenue. Sin Taxes are always an easier way than income taxes.

It's already a felony in Va so increased penalties aren't going to help the crime issue which isn't a Va problem anyway.

This is a classic example of the off track and fragmented gun community. We have the anti's coming through the gate and we're discussing sneaking cigarettes into New York...in other words, Nero is fiddling while Rome is burning.......AND

DAVID, DON"T AGREE WITH ANYTHING I SAY ANYMORE!

But, but, but Peter,

Cigs are BAD. Governments job is to try to prevent people from making BAD choices, and to punish them when they make BAD choices.

Taxes are GOOD. After all the government is GOOD and they can't control all of us BAD citizens without confiscatory taxes.

This is so much better than talking about gun rights.

 

[JamesCanby]

If you reread the OP and the included link, the connection is made to organized crime/terrorists profiting via trafficking in cigarettes originating in Virginia. You may not care what happens in NYC (I do), but surely you can relate to the problems that brings to our state and the residents thereof.

Whether Bloods, Crips, MS13 or an unnamed group of "entrepreneurs," they bring with them the very real potential for violence - they have demonstrated that capacity. I for one do not want them operating unimpeded and profiting from their activities within our state.

To let the criminal element grow and prosper will IMO too soon test why we defend the RKBA, yet wish to avoid when possible actually deploying lethal force. See no reason to allow those two lines to intersect when there is another way.

To that degree, if no other, it is relevant to this forum.

I respectfully disagree. Scenario:

I'm at a gas station with a convenience store embedded.
I am openly carrying a properly holstered hand gun.
I observe the same incident as the OP ... multiple persons from one vehicle buying multiple cartons of cigarettes.

What do you suggest I do?
Call 911 and tell the dispatcher that I am observing people buying cigarettes?
Contact the ATF with information about the incident, including make/model of vehicle, license plate, occupant descriptions, date, time?
Video tap1ng the proceedings and sending the video to someone who might action?
Alert Maryland, New Jersey and New York police that a van with the license plate of xxx-9999 might be headed their way with Virginia-tax-stamped cigarettes on board?
Draw my firearm and detain the perps under citizen's arrest until the police arrive?

Any or all of the above, all the while exposing myself to the driver/lookout?

I am in agreement with you that we, as Commonwealth citizens, should be aware of what's going on around us and help the "authorities" by informing them of what we have observed, but it seems to me that the "authorities" themselves are turning a blind eye to this kind of illicit commerce.

In many other threads herein we advise law-abiding citizens who are openly carrying or carrying concealed that they are NOT police or vigilantes and that they have no duty to interfere when they observe a crime, especially if there is no apparent danger to their life or the lives of others.

In the OP's situation, what exactly do you suggest is our proper role?

 

[davidmcbeth]

I'm starting to lean toward the terrorists .... none of them tried to grab my guns ...

Sucks to be the guberment !



Heck, the guberment has already called me a terrorist for owning ...

The guberment is the largest terrorist organization IMO

 

[davidmcbeth]

I know FB...I'm just having fun:banana: BUT...each one of that group can have 5000 cigarettes and still be legal.

Back to the 22's. Often my wife will buy two boxes so we have 4 boxes in the car.

They should just limit the number of smokes to 5 per pack. BAM ! Problem solved.

 

[peter nap]

They should just limit the number of smokes to 5 per pack. BAM ! Problem solved.

The only thing worse than being an Idiot troll.....is being an Idiot troll who thinks he's funny!

 

[Thundar]

The only thing worse than being an Idiot troll.....is being an Idiot troll who thinks he's funny!

Maybe I'm just going soft in my old age, I actually thought that was funny.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[peter nap]

Maybe I'm just going soft in my old age, I actually thought that was funny.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

For Gods sake...don't encourage him:uhoh:

 

[Repeater]

I guess I must be too dense to see how people buying cigarettes, not having or brandishing any observable firearms or committing any crime that VA police seem to be interested in pursuing, is relevant to properly holstered, openly carried handguns in the Virginia forum. Perhaps you can connect the dots for us all...

Yes. You are dense.

 

[peter nap]

Did everyone know that in New York:

A 76-year-old Brooklyn woman was punched in the back of the head by a stranger in what residents fear could be the city's tenth "knockout game" attack.
Yvonne Small fell to the ground after being punched by her assailant on Alabama Ave. and Wortman Ave. in East New York about 11:35 a.m., according to police sources.

And the fellow who did it probably smoked Maybe Virginia cigarettes:uhoh:

 

[Repeater]

If you reread the OP and the included link, the connection is made to organized crime/terrorists profiting via trafficking in cigarettes originating in Virginia. You may not care what happens in NYC (I do), but surely you can relate to the problems that brings to our state and the residents thereof.

Whether Bloods, Crips, MS13 or an unnamed group of "entrepreneurs," they bring with them the very real potential for violence - they have demonstrated that capacity. I for one do not want them operating unimpeded and profiting from their activities within our state.

To let the criminal element grow and prosper will IMO too soon test why we defend the RKBA, yet wish to avoid when possible actually deploying lethal force. See no reason to allow those two lines to intersect when there is another way.

To that degree, if no other, it is relevant to this forum.

What I offered, based on my own observations, is a trafficking profile. In particular, these individuals specifically request the quota maximum (5 cartons) of Newports and they always pay CASH. That is not normal. Be aware.

Part of this forum is discussing safe carry. I would suppose that includes situational awareness. In all honesty, how many of you are Condition White when carrying? Can you ever afford to be? What I'm suggesting is, should you ever cross paths with the type of individual I've described, be aware. Or beware, if you prefer.

Get a clue (not you, Grape).

 

[marshaul]

What I'm suggesting is, should you ever cross paths with the type of individual I've described, be aware. Or beware, if you prefer.

I'm always aware, but why now specifically?

Cigarette smugglers are going to shoot you for seeing them buy cigarettes? Gimme a break.

 

[peter nap]

Get a clue (not you, Grape).

I'll do that Repeater...(Head in hands laughing with tears streaming down):lol:

Quote from Trading Places

Billy Ray Valentine: Yeah, we got to kill the motherf... - we got to kill 'em!

 

[Repeater]

I'm always aware, but why now specifically?

Cigarette smugglers are going to shoot you for seeing them buy cigarettes? Gimme a break.

Here is an experiment: if the trafficking profile is satisfied, why not follow the individual back to his van, SUV, or whatever and ask if all those cartons of Newports are for personal consumption. Then ask the driver where they are all from. Then take snaps with your Smartphone. Make sure your .45 is visible (don't you carry a .45?).

Then come back with an After Action report. Stay Safe.

 

[Repeater]

I'll do that Repeater...(Head in hands laughing with tears streaming down):lol:

I like Trading Places. Too bad the Terrorists took out the Twin Towers, huh?

Wonder how the Duke Brothers are doing these days.

 

[marshaul]

Here is an experiment: if the trafficking profile is satisfied, why not follow the individual back to his van, SUV, or whatever and ask if all those cartons of Newports are for personal consumption. Then ask the driver where they are all from. Then take snaps with your Smartphone. Make sure your .45 is visible (don't you carry a .45?).

Then come back with an After Action report. Stay Safe.

But I don't care.

I think those smuggling cigarettes into New York are engaging in behavior which is less aggressive (read: more moral) that the behavior of those trying to stop them. Why should I assist the latter group?

Why should I not mind my own damn business, like any decent person?

If your concern is over violation of the law, I submit that the law in question is wrong, and any concern I have over the issue will be directed into advocating that the law be changed (not paying a whit of attention to those buying cigarettes).

It should not be illegal to buy commercial quantities of cigarettes in the free state of Virginia to bring to those poor, benighted souls in unfree New York.

 

[peter nap]

I like Trading Places. Too bad the Terrorists took out the Twin Towers, huh?

Wonder how the Duke Brothers are doing these days.

You used to be such a sensible fellow...or is it April fools day:banana:

Wasn't there a thread a little while ago about someone saying we looked like vigilantes?

This time I'm not going to post anymore. It'll give you time to post more Bert and Ernie "We alls on high alert"....propaganda.:lol:

 

[Primus]

But I don't care.

I think those smuggling cigarettes into New York are engaging in behavior which is less aggressive (read: more moral) that the behavior of those trying to stop them. Why should I assist the latter group?

Why should I not mind my own damn business, like any decent person?

If your concern is over violation of the law, I submit that the law in question is wrong, and any concern I have over the issue will be directed into advocating that the law be changed (not paying a whit of attention to those buying cigarettes).

It should not be illegal to buy commercial quantities of cigarettes in the free state of Virginia to bring to those poor, benighted souls in unfree New York.

I believe the OP already answered this. You may not need to care they are breaking the cigarette tax law. You may not need to care about the crossing state lines and reselling law. Certainly don't need to care about the limit to how many cigarettes they can have law. The point is these behaviors can lead up something like breaking a blowing up a local building law. Or running around shooting people in a public area law.

He made the connection clear. If this behavior is tied to terrorism then that's the part you should care about. It doesn't matter how you feel about the tax law or the transportation part, it's the END RESULT. So you may say "It'll never happen so F em they are working against the .gov so it means they are my friend" (which is clearly what many have said). When they cross the line and start killing people (could even be in VA since they are operating there) to rally against the .gov are you going to still cheer for them and say they are your friend?

Finally, someone asked what to do. Observe and Report. That's all. Doesn't make you a hero, doesn't even throw you in harms way. You should be able to get a plate and description of the guys. Even better, just the location they are at (video cameras) may show a pattern. Who do you send it to you ask? How about the agency that put out the bulletin that the OP was kind enough to put out there. Everyone always says it's always someone elses problem (NYs) until SHTF fan in your state or area. Then it's why didn't the .gov stop them????

 

[marshaul]

I believe the OP already answered this. You may not need to care they are breaking the cigarette tax law. You may not need to care about the crossing state lines and reselling law. Certainly don't need to care about the limit to how many cigarettes they can have law. The point is these behaviors can lead up something like breaking a blowing up a local building law. Or running around shooting people in a public area law.

No.

This will happen in New York, where the risks and incentives inevitably dictate that outcome (as always occurs with prohibition – even the merely de facto).

There's no reason it needs to happen in Virginia. If Virginia adopted the policy approach I espouse, there would be absolutely no incentive nor benefit to violence on the part of these businessmen.

You assume, it seems, that disrespect for the law breeds further lawlessness. That may have been true, once. Today, it's fairly obvious that respect for the law has very little to do with morality/non-aggressiveness (and therefore nonviolence).

 

[davidmcbeth]

Did everyone know that in New York:



And the fellow who did it probably smoked [/FONT][/COLOR] Maybe Virginia cigarettes:uhoh:

Another smoke related death !

One person signing up for obamalama care with known heart disease and cancer will get a lower rate than a healthy smoker.

See, the system works?

Anytime a Dr asks : do you smoke? Always answer no. Do you own guns? No.

 

[Repeater]

No.

This will happen in New York, where the risks and incentives inevitably dictate that outcome (as always occurs with prohibition – even the merely de facto).

There's no reason it needs to happen in Virginia. ....

Well .........

The Tobacco Trail: Smuggling Cigarettes Out of Virginia

It’s a crime that happens in plain sight, inside stores up and down the East Coast. The tobacco trail of smuggled cigarettes costs taxpayers millions of dollars and often starts right here in Northern Virginia.

Paul Carey is at the center of the battle. He’s chief of enforcement with the Northern Virginia Cigarette Tax Board. “It’s more profitable than heroin, drugs, methamphetamines. And the penalties are so low,” said Carey.

...

“We've seen him load the product up from his home. Three hundred thousand dollars-worth of product he's sent out," explained Carey.

Carey told us the man they’ve been watching has sent close to two dozen separate shipments of Virginia cigarettes overseas where they're often sold for a premium. On this day, agents found 549 cartons in the man's van and even more inside his home. He was later found guilty of transporting untaxed cigarettes and still faces a felony charge next month. According to Carey, "This is one of the first cases we're working where it's being shipped out of the United States."

Now, how many of you in central Virginia remember hearing about the convenience store owner who was murdered near his home in Midlothian:

The quiet neighborhood of Bristol Village is a tidy collection of three-story town homes in Charter Colony where neighbors feel safe, but their sense of security was shattered early Thursday.

Thursday night police sources confirmed 32-year-old Abdelmajied Hussein was shot in the right arm pit and bled to death in a Chesterfield apartment complex parking lot, earlier that day.

Captain Chris Hensley with Chesterfield police told CBS 6 News that the incident happened around 4:00 a.m. outside the 600 block of Bristol Village Drive

Police responded to a call for shots fired and upon arrival found Hussein dead from an apparent gunshot wound in the parking lot. We also learned an off-duty officer who lives at the complex tried to administer CPR and got a good description of at least one of the suspects.

“The vehicle was recovered in Byrd Park and had been set on fire,” said Chesterfield Police Capt. Chris Hensley.

Now Chesterfield Police have to piece clues together to find the killer. “We are talking to neighbors, and associates to see if they know anything,” said Hensley.

Multiple police sources tell me the off-duty officer got a good description of a black male running from the scene wearing blue jeans, a Northface jacket with a white t-shirt wrapped around his face. Police also say they’re looking for two other suspects.

Seems basic enough; a violent gun related crime. Except:

Convenience store owner’s murder could shed light on cigarette trafficking

Thursday will mark two weeks since the early morning murder of Abdel Hussein in Bristol Village off Charter Colony Parkway in Midlothian.

“It’s been really tough to sleep at night,” said one neighbor who did not want to be identified. He said people who live there feel as if they’ve been left in limbo, wondering exactly what triggered the shocking violence.

He said hearing from police that they didn’t believe it was random, hasn’t been enough to calm nerves. “I went out and purchased a handgun for home defense,” he admitted.

Chesterfield Police continue their investigation, telling CBS 6 they now have a motive.

“It appears to be a deadly attempted robbery,” said Chesterfield Police Lt. Randy Horowitz.

But the reason behind that robbery is now one of the main focal points: police sources say Hussein, a convenience store owner, had ties to cigarette traffickers in New York.

“I’ll say we are looking into all of Mr. Hussein’s business practices,” said Horowitz. “He dealt a lot with cash and we believe the guys who did this knew that.”

ATF special agent Mike Campbell says he doesn’t have personal knowledge of the Hussein case but could speak in general terms to trends they’ve seen with cigarette trafficking in central Virginia. He said new laws have made it tougher, but some are still trying to fly under the radar.

“It’s almost like the new Prohibition. We’ve seen organized crime groups moving cigarettes from Virginia to New York. We’ve had Asian groups, Russian groups. It’s a lucrative business.”

It's obvious the governor and the mayor of New York won't do the obvious: lower their taxes; that's beside the point. The point is that their neo-prohibitionist impulses are causing violent problems here in Virginia. At least you've been warned.