Drinking and Carrying - something you should consider before you do!

[OC for ME]

Correct me if I'm wrong (unfortunately more often than not), but doesn't that only apply to OC? I seem to recall hearing somewhere that it is illegal to consume while concealing. (ps. love the slick way around the rules :lol

I agree with most on here. Simply drinking is not the problem. It's drinking too much. I often have a beer or two with dinner while carrying. No problem. Now, I would never get fall-down drunk (although legal), because that's just irresponsible.

NO. RSMo 571.030 lists the 10 no-nos. Of which number 5 (drinking booze) is listed in the exceptions for 571.030.3, gun in a non-functioning/unloaded blah, blah, blah condition. And 571.030.5, self-defense, no brainer there.

571.030.4, the CCW part, could be construed to imply that drinking and CCW are a no-no, because number 5 is not listed in the exceptions for CCW.

But, no law, or a part of a law, can force a citizen by his compliance to that law, or part of a law, to thereby be forced by said compliance of previously mentioned law or part of a law by the citizen, into forcing the citizen to violate another law by his compliance of another law or part of a law. Got it?

Short version, if you want a drink while CCW, you have to go OC to have your drink, in a OC is banned town. Uh....not gunna happen.

Try and gig a cop, off duty, CCWing and having a brewski down at the pub cuz he is drinking while CCW. Yeah....good luck with that.

The legislature and the cops know exactly what the legislature meant. Any cop, or citizen that tells you otherwise and CCWs while they are having a beer at Red Lobster in a no OC town is breaking the law no matter what they do.

 

[OC for ME]

Remember, RSMo 571.030.1(5) is not about the drinking part, it is about doing boneheaded stuff while/after drinking.

What makes a 'intoxicated' person doing boneheaded stuff with a gun more worser than a sober person doing boneheaded stuff with a gun?

It is not your condition that matters so much, as does your actions with the gun that matter, no matter your condition. Got it?

 

[XD9mmFMJ]

If you are going to carry, don't drink.

If you are going to drink, don't carry.

Guns and alcohol do not mix well.

God forbid anything should happen. You will come out on the losing end.

So just give up all of your rights to self defense, simply because you want to have a drink? Why is it ok to be assaulted while drinking, but not ok to defend yourself because you had some beer? That's interesting how people seem to want your rights to disappear if you start to enjoy yourself too much.

 

[oldbanger]

Idaho

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 33
FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
18-3302B Carrying concealed weapons under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating drink or drug.
Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be a misdemeanor.

Section 39-310, Idaho Code, a section in the
Alcoholism and Intoxication Treatment Act which provides that no
person shall be prosecuted criminally for a violation of law that
includes drinking or being in an intoxicated state as one of the
elements of the offense.

 

[HighFlyingA380]

Remember, RSMo 571.030.1(5) is not about the drinking part, it is about doing boneheaded stuff while/after drinking.

What makes a 'intoxicated' person doing boneheaded stuff with a gun more worser than a sober person doing boneheaded stuff with a gun?

It is not your condition that matters so much, as does your actions with the gun that matter, no matter your condition. Got it?

I agree with your interpretation of 571.030.1(5); It's pretty clear-cut. What about RSMo 571.170.1(7):

"571.107. 1. A concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize the person in whose name the permit or endorsement is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No driver's license or nondriver's license containing a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:
.
.
.
(7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;
.
.
."

 

[FallonJeeper]

Just to be clear -

A single or a couple drinks doesn't necessarily make you intoxicated. Don't drink to the point of being intoxicated.


Alcohol intoxication (also known as drunkenness or inebriation) is a physiological state that occurs when a person has a high level of ethanol (alcohol) in his or her blood.

Common symptoms of alcohol intoxication include slurred speech, euphoria, impaired balance, loss of muscle coordination (ataxia), flushed face, vomiting, reddened eyes, reduced inhibition, and erratic behavior. In severe cases, it can cause coma or death.

Toxicologists use the term “alcohol intoxication” to discriminate between alcohol and other toxins.

 

[OC for ME]

Don't read too much into the law. If you believe 571.107.1(7) mean what it states, you may not possess a firearm while in your own home. Also, how can you defend yourself while intoxicated?

 

[Daylen]

Neither strongly pro or con on this issue - there are good and valid arguments on both sides.

For me the problem is easily solved w/o major discourse: I will do what is best for me and mine. Each of us must decide individually what that may be. It's no biggy.

That's fine as long as the moral crusader view can be kept from legislation.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

I act the same all the time. I act like a normal citizen. I go about my daily life and, sometimes, I end up in restaurants with my Sweet Baboo. She likes margaritas and so do I. We act just like other folks, and we OC. I do not leave my knife at home when I drink, 'cause it is just a tool. And if you "plan" to get drunk, don't just put the weapon away, see a doctor, mate.

 

[vaguns]

This is a good discussion.

I have a question. In VA it is unlawful for me to conceal carry in a establishment that serves alcohol and have a drink but not for LEO, is it lawful for me to open carry and have a drink? I think it looks bad and would rather move from open carry to conceal carry if I were to have a drink but the law forbids that. Currently I just decide whether or not I am going to have a drink with dinner and leave the weapon in the car.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Grapeshot]

This is a good discussion.

I have a question. In VA it is unlawful for me to conceal carry in a establishment that serves alcohol and have a drink but not for LEO, is it lawful for me to open carry and have a drink? I think it looks bad and would rather move from open carry to conceal carry if I were to have a drink but the law forbids that. Currently I just decide whether or not I am going to have a drink with dinner and leave the weapon in the car.

Thanks in advance!

Yes you can OC and have an adult beverage.

 

[vaguns]

Yes you can OC and have an adult beverage.

I guess that means that in VA the statue does not restrict that and therefore it is allowed?

 

[Xulld]

I've drank and home and carried. Guess what, my judgment didn't change. If one is not able to drink and carry, they should not put their restrictions on someone else who can.

You have a brain. Brains are affected by alcohol. Judgement is impaired even if only by a small margin by only a small amount of alcohol. These facts have been rigorously tested, the judgement capacity you express when trying to determine if your judgement is impaired is itself an impaired judgement when under the influence of alcohol.

This is not an on/off state of affairs, but a sliding scale; a continuum of impairment.

This is really not something anyone can dispute. Now saying that a given action would have been the same if you had only one drink, or a few drinks isn't the same as saying your judgement has not been impaired.

ex.
You are trying to make a left hand turn across 3 lanes of traffic, a car is coming at what you think is 60 MPH (judgement 1) from determining the distance and your ability to cross the distance needed (judgement 2) in the time (judgement 3) you judged as available. 3 judgements have been rendered and if they are each off by 10% you could be making a fatal error.

Errors in judgement are commutative, it adds up. A single variable decision would not be effected much, but as you add variables the decision making becomes worse and worse, the more your brain is affected by the alcohol the greater the degree of impairment, the greater the degree of added miscalculation for each added variable in the decision tree.

The best bet is just to never drink and engage in activities which could be dangerous and have multivariate logic trees as a part of the standard operation.

Anecdotes of various outcomes are not useful, ie saying, "but I've done it a thousand times", does not invalidate these facts.

 

[Grapeshot]

I guess that means that in VA the statue does not restrict that and therefore it is allowed?

State code § 18.2-308 spells it out.

OC + alcohol OK

CC no alcohol allowed.

Unless your one of the "only us" class which includes LEOs and a few others who may do whatever they wish.

 

[vaguns]

State code § 18.2-308 spells it out.

OC + alcohol OK

CC no alcohol allowed.

Unless your one of the "only us" class which includes LEOs and a few others who may do whatever they wish.

Thanks for the information!

 

[Daylen]

State code § 18.2-308 spells it out.

OC + alcohol OK

CC no alcohol allowed.

Unless your one of the "only us" class which includes LEOs and a few others who may do whatever they wish.

Wouldn't the LEOs be OC as well? or are you refering to plain clothes ones that are CCing?

 

[Grapeshot]

Wouldn't the LEOs be OC as well? or are you refering to plain clothes ones that are CCing?

Didn't make any distinction did I? That's because the law does not.

 

[va_tazdad]

NOt what I said.

How is getting murdered while unarmed considered to be coming out on the winning end?



....because if you've had a drink, you deserve to be rendered defenseless and shot to death, right?

Nobody told you to lie down and be a victim, which seems to be your plan. The law is clear.

I do not believe in drinking and carrying. Your choice is yours. I just have seen too many drunk morons that don't know when to stop. There is also that drinking and driving problem. With a .08 intoxication level, I just think you are asking for problems.

No, it has never been my problem, but I don't want to be caught between a rock and a hard place as you described. I will carry and be able to defend me and mine. You go ahead and leave your gun in the car if a drink is that important.

 

[protias]

You have a brain. Brains are affected by alcohol. Judgement is impaired even if only by a small margin by only a small amount of alcohol. These facts have been rigorously tested, the judgement capacity you express when trying to determine if your judgement is impaired is itself an impaired judgement when under the influence of alcohol.

This is not an on/off state of affairs, but a sliding scale; a continuum of impairment.

This is really not something anyone can dispute. Now saying that a given action would have been the same if you had only one drink, or a few drinks isn't the same as saying your judgement has not been impaired.

ex.
You are trying to make a left hand turn across 3 lanes of traffic, a car is coming at what you think is 60 MPH (judgement 1) from determining the distance and your ability to cross the distance needed (judgement 2) in the time (judgement 3) you judged as available. 3 judgements have been rendered and if they are each off by 10% you could be making a fatal error.

Errors in judgement are commutative, it adds up. A single variable decision would not be effected much, but as you add variables the decision making becomes worse and worse, the more your brain is affected by the alcohol the greater the degree of impairment, the greater the degree of added miscalculation for each added variable in the decision tree.

The best bet is just to never drink and engage in activities which could be dangerous and have multivariate logic trees as a part of the standard operation.

Anecdotes of various outcomes are not useful, ie saying, "but I've done it a thousand times", does not invalidate these facts.

If you want to use driving, carrying, and drinking all in the same, fine, let's make that comparison. Why is that every state has a law that says you can drive a vehicle and have a BAC of .08? Wait, I thought you just said even 1 drink can affect your judgment? So I am assuming you have never had a single drink and then driven somewhere. I mean, your judgment is affected so you shouldn't be doing anything, even talking with another person because you might end up sleeping with him/her, or getting into a fight. See the absurdity in that?

Now, onto your example. Safe driving is always to err on the side of caution. Now I'll fully admit that I've not always been the most cautious person (staying in the right lane on the freeway, staying with the flow of traffic, etc) in the world, but I would never drive recklessly. Don't believe all the lies and false data. Do some tests and find out the truth.

 

[since9]

I think some folks are mixing up DUI with DWI.

DWI, "driving while intoxicated," is much easier to prosecute, as there is wide agreement that "intoxicated" can be reduced to a simple, easily and accurately measured blood alcohol content: "In most jurisdictions a measurement such as a blood alcohol content in excess of a defined level, such as 0.05% or 0.08% defines the offense, with no need to prove impairment or being under the influence of alcohol. In some jurisdictions, there is an aggravated category of the offense at e.g. 0.12%."

DUI, "driving under the influence" is much more difficult to prove, as it's based on whether or not you were influenced by the alcohol in your system. The coordination and judgement of some folks is influenced by as little as 0.02%, whereas others can be walking around with 0.1% and carry on normally.

Despite these distinctions, most state laws and the courts mix them up as well, often using them interchangeably.