First Ak or AR open carry!!!!!!

[Oaklander]

The state just passed a law making it extremely easy for municipalities to limit, if not outright ban, the use of mobile billboards. Basically they are closing off an avenue of free speech and affordable advertisement. Of course people like us "caused" it. By living within the confines of existing law, it allowed the state and their lobbyists to identify the "loopholes" in their already engaged plan that was meant to limit our access to this. I don't see how trying to rebel with creativity is any worse than silently accepting the original nefarious plot as it accomplishes their goal, other than the timing of it. At least OC has inspired and educated many about the loss of their freedoms, whereas before, many had already thought they were already lost.

ETA: here is the EXACT moral equation here: we all agree that ideals are worth standing up for. But, we are also realists, and we realize that even good ideas can have negative results. The problem in CA is that these negative results are laws that kill people by disarming them. Those who advocate actions that WILL RESULT IN ADDITIONAL BAD LAWS - well - those folks LITERALLY HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS.

We have ALL SORTS OF GAINS HERE. Me and some friends are responsible for the very fact that you CAN now buy black rifles in CA, again. Same with concealed carry. The issue here is that most of you are not really familiar with what is happening in our state. So you just spout soundbites. There is no justice in doing something to make a point (even if it is a good point), which results in a measurable loss.

That is like the guy who gets mad in traffic over something, then drives erratically - just to prove a "point." Entire families have died from guys trying to "prove a point" or "educate someone."

Seriously, I do not post here often because many of you simply have zero moral, logical, or factual bases for your malformed opinions. I say things because I am one of the people who is making the good stuff happen here, and I can tell you that we could get a LOT MORE DONE if people would just suck it up and admit that "politics" is real.

 

[Oaklander]

Definitely don't pray with your family before eating in public places. It's flaunting your right in the faces of people that object. Don't do it because that will just make them ban it. Praying in public is just a quest for attention and stirring the pot.
"If you have to ask permission then it isn't a right"
Rights are interchangeable and equal. Swap the word "gun" with "camera" and see if its reasonable. (permits, permission, permissible areas, etc)

Dude, is your IQ like 90 or something?

Praying does not scare people into passing laws that outlaw praying. Many of us kind of thought that OC was actually kind of cool sometimes. The issue here is that the head of the CA chapter of Brady lives in a certain town where folks liked to very visibly OC. I know these folks, and they are good people - but common sense alone indicates that there would be an effect.

NOW - imagine the same thing with black rifles. This will bring NEGATIVE NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION ON US. I put in about 2000 hours of unpaid pro bono on this issue per year. And now some pimply-faced kid is going to f up MY work, and the work of our other volunteers, AND cause new bad laws, and cause people to DIE BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DISARMED? Just to prove a point?

That is the height of stupidity.

 

[ConditionThree]

1) Donny is extremely smart and educated, if it's who I think it is.

It isn't.
Kilmer probably thinks I am an a**hole for ******* off someone who is generally percieved as a pro-gun issuing authority, but 'Donny' is a disruptive child with no legal background who comes here with no other purpose than to mock and disparage the practice of open carry. Kilmer, on the other hand would at least share his commentary salted with his well founded arguements.

 

[Save Our State]

ETA: here is the EXACT moral equation here: we all agree that ideals are worth standing up for. But, we are also realists, and we realize that even good ideas can have negative results. The problem in CA is that these negative results are laws that kill people by disarming them. Those who advocate actions that WILL RESULT IN ADDITIONAL BAD LAWS - well - those folks LITERALLY HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS.

We have ALL SORTS OF GAINS HERE. Me and some friends are responsible for the very fact that you CAN now buy black rifles in CA, again. Same with concealed carry. The issue here is that most of you are not really familiar with what is happening in our state. So you just spout soundbites. There is no justice in doing something to make a point (even if it is a good point), which results in a measurable loss.

That is like the guy who gets mad in traffic over something, then drives erratically - just to prove a "point." Entire families have died from guys trying to "prove a point" or "educate someone."

Seriously, I do not post here often because many of you simply have zero moral, logical, or factual bases for your malformed opinions. I say things because I am one of the people who is making the good stuff happen here, and I can tell you that we could get a LOT MORE DONE if people would just suck it up and admit that "politics" is real.

Your dramatics are not being received well. But to address one of your claims, in both instances your work led to state approved carry or ownership. The "permission slip" if you will. I undertand your willingness to accept that as a win, but it didn't accomplish re-establishing a right. I think it placed some people in a purgatory of sorts, where they are suffering to enter the state's created heaven while the majority still live in hell. In acceeding to the state's version of our nation's bill of rights, we are voluntarily ceding power to them immediately that they are trying to obtain by force in the long term. I appreciate your efforts in the movement. I do thank you for it. However I didn't want a black rifle or a concealed weapon permit. I just wanted what I've always had. The right and ability to possess a basic gun, even in public without being considered a criminal first and foremost. I don't see your "wins" as getting us to that point. But I'm glad your doing what you're doing.

 

[HKcarrier]

I put in about 2000 hours of unpaid pro bono on this issue per year.

So you put in 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year on this issue? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[wildhawker]

I can say that I do at least 40 hours per week pro bono. Many others at the core invest time similarly.

-Brandon

So you put in 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year on this issue? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[leoffensive]

lol perhaps ill just carry loaded concealed and say **** it at this point..... or leave the state which is what i feel im gettin close to doing.


california is a lost cause.

 

[Oaklander]

It isn't.
Kilmer probably thinks I am an a**hole for ******* off someone who is generally percieved as a pro-gun issuing authority, but 'Donny' is a disruptive child with no legal background who comes here with no other purpose than to mock and disparage the practice of open carry. Kilmer, on the other hand would at least share his commentary salted with his well founded arguements.

I am not a big fan of Donny either - but he is not dumb, that was my point.

 

[Oaklander]

So you put in 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year on this issue? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

So far, this week alone - I have worked 30 hours, without pay - on something related to RKBA.

ALL OF US DO.

We are simply NOT LIKE YOU - that is why we ARE WINNING!

 

[Oaklander]

Your dramatics are not being received well. But to address one of your claims, in both instances your work led to state approved carry or ownership. The "permission slip" if you will. I undertand your willingness to accept that as a win, but it didn't accomplish re-establishing a right. I think it placed some people in a purgatory of sorts, where they are suffering to enter the state's created heaven while the majority still live in hell. In acceeding to the state's version of our nation's bill of rights, we are voluntarily ceding power to them immediately that they are trying to obtain by force in the long term. I appreciate your efforts in the movement. I do thank you for it. However I didn't want a black rifle or a concealed weapon permit. I just wanted what I've always had. The right and ability to possess a basic gun, even in public without being considered a criminal first and foremost. I don't see your "wins" as getting us to that point. But I'm glad your doing what you're doing.

Look, it is not "dramatics." I personally know of people who have died because they were unable to return fire. This is NOT from reading wiki, or blogs, or wherever you all get your info. This is from "touching reality."

SO MUCH of what happens on the internet is pure crap. Most of you have ZERO connection to what is happening. Not you personally so much - but many of you. Me, Brandon, Don - etc. - we are the actual people who call the Sheriffs, who file the lawsuits, who do the PRARs, who do the public events. Our coalition recently stopped TWO anti-gun laws here in NorCal by actually going out into the real world and doing work with real people.

MY POINT is that this stuff is REAL - and has real effects. It's not some video game. I am now working on violence prevention issues here in Oakland - and I keep a loaded AR by my door. Is that real enough for you? How about when the DOJ threatened to arrest me a couple of years ago because I tried (successfully, I might add) to VOLREG an OLL AK pistol.

Have you ever actually met with a mayor? I have friends who ARE mayors, dude. You are out of your league, a tiny bit.

Please realize that we are serious about fighting for YOUR rights - AND there is no "dramatics" here - this REAL stuff is dramatic enough. It is not a video game. People DO lose their lives because of bad policy decisions and laws - and we are fixing that FOR YOU.

;-)

The rest of your post does not make sense. I do not know about this "permission slip" language, did you pick that up on a blog or something? You sound like you read a lot of kind of inaccurate information - yet when the people who actually DO THE WORK SPEAK - YOU DO NOT LISTEN.

That does not make sense. . .

 

[pullnshoot25]

So you put in 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year on this issue? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

The man isn't lying.

I am torn 50/50 on the whole long gun carry deal (though leaning more towards "no") but if anyone is going to do it, I suggest that you please refrain from black rifles and stick to guns with wooden stocks.

 

[Born2Lose]

Dude, is your IQ like 90 or something?

Praying does not scare people into passing laws that outlaw praying. Many of us kind of thought that OC was actually kind of cool sometimes. The issue here is that the head of the CA chapter of Brady lives in a certain town where folks liked to very visibly OC. I know these folks, and they are good people - but common sense alone indicates that there would be an effect.

NOW - imagine the same thing with black rifles. This will bring NEGATIVE NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION ON US. I put in about 2000 hours of unpaid pro bono on this issue per year. And now some pimply-faced kid is going to f up MY work, and the work of our other volunteers, AND cause new bad laws, and cause people to DIE BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DISARMED? Just to prove a point?

That is the height of stupidity.

That's me..the 33 year old pimply faced kid. Older age doesn't always equal more wisdom my friend.

Yes..insult my intelligence because i used hyperbole. Do you or do you not believe that the RKBA is a GOD given right?
Saying that we shouldn't do something because they will take it away is the "Height of stupidity"...because the very fact that i can't do for fear of removal means i never had the right to start with.

 

[wildhawker]

because the very fact that i can't do for fear of removal means i never had the right to start with.

Correct. As a practical matter, you don't (in California, at this time).

-Brandon

 

[GWbiker]

So far, this week alone - I have worked 30 hours, without pay - on something related to RKBA.

ALL OF US DO.

We are simply NOT LIKE YOU - that is why we ARE WINNING!

Excuse me for butting in, -- you are winning what?

Since the signing of 1923 California Dangerous Weapons Control Law, which mandated a waiting period with restrictions on firearm ownership to Asians and Hispanics, you people are moving backward in gun rights.

You call this winning?

 

[Save Our State]

Have you ever actually met with a mayor? I have friends who ARE mayors, dude. You are out of your league, a tiny bit.

Please realize that we are serious about fighting for YOUR rights - AND there is no "dramatics" here - this REAL stuff is dramatic enough. It is not a video game. People DO lose their lives because of bad policy decisions and laws - and we are fixing that FOR YOU.

;-).

Yikes!.....Your excellency, I beg of you to let me return to my little hamlet unharmed.

 

[EXTREMEOPS1]

Arm ourselves with loaded guns!

"We've created an environment in which millions of Californians can now arm themselves with loaded guns. We've undermined core anti-gun arguments in public and in courts. We've challenged law enforcement officials to follow the laws they took an oath to uphold. That, to me, is measurable effective product."

Brandon,

Well maybe I'm missing something but if we could arm ourselves with loaded weapons in California don't you think we would have done that instead of UOC? It was our only choice of being able to defend ourselves as LOC was not an option in CA unless you are LEO .....we may have opened the floodgates to get LOC and "shall issue" CCW permits on the table in the future ... as we will have no option other than long gun open carry (or CCW if issued) come
1st January 2012. I have yet to see these countless lawsuits against California for restricting or 2A rights to carry and bear arms NRA/CGF etc are poised to get something done for the legal gun carriers of California but doubt if anything will be in place prior to the 1st January 2012. Heard that the recall of governor moonbeam is on the cards as well....they did it to Gray Davis and he didn't stop us carying our guns!

 

[Born2Lose]

Yikes!.....Your excellency, I beg of you to let me return to my little hamlet unharmed.

This is getting good!

 

[bwiese]

Several comments relevant to CA.

... carrying of long guns, esp CA legal Black Rifles, offers severe risk to a prospective
graceful fixup of CA AW laws. We need to cooperate with certain nongunnie segments
that are equally aggrieved about AW laws affecting them, and if it can be done a bit
quietly and with tacit cooperation of some who are not necessarily gun friendly but
who are responsive to this segment, we can get a lot done.

... OC'd rifles will be seen as MORE threatening than handguns by the soccer mom crowd.

... someone mentioned a Jerry Brown recall: yeah, right. FAIL on Politics 101. Brown won
over eMeg in a near-landslide, 11.4% margin / 1.3 million votes as I recall (approx). Brown
could be caught in bed with a dead girl and a farm animal and a nuclear weapon, and still
beat any contender [especially if he has "R" beside his name].


What's funny here is that people think after decades of bad gun-issue court decisions
that we just flip a switch after Heller + McDonald and everything is magically fixed. Even
a completely winning path takes lots of time to run up the channel.

We'll get there. In the meantime it would help gunnies to not shoot themselves in the foot.
It would really be sad to get open carry as the protected right as there will '30.06'-style
signs posted on properties everywhere, making it useless. Nobody notices CCW and thus
outta sight, outta mind. When it's done right open carry will be protected too (12050
is a *carry* permit.)


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

 

[Save Our State]

... someone mentioned a Jerry Brown recall: yeah, right. FAIL on Politics 101. Brown won
over eMeg in a near-landslide, 11.4% margin / 1.3 million votes as I recall (approx). Brown
could be caught in bed with a dead girl and a farm animal and a nuclear weapon, and still
beat any contender [especially if he has "R" beside his name].
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Yes sir, that's probably the case. Unless you have a replacement for brown, he's not going to be recalled, and if he was without a replacement, we'd have Newsome. I didn't think highly of the republicans choosing Whitman, and I don't believe she thinks highly of the little people's rights either. Most people at that level of management don't. But...find a candidate or two that could beat Brown, and you might have a successful recall. I don't know if that would translate into a recall of 144 or any other level of gun restrictions though. Arnold was more of a disappointment to many of us than Davis was, 'cause my expectations of Davis were never high.

OC'd rifles will be seen as MORE threatening than handguns by the soccer mom crowd.

That may be true of the sportier, souped up rifles, but not the basics.

 

[bwiese]

>>Save our State wrote
>>"That may be true of the sportier, souped up rifles, but not the basics."

I can assure you ANY long gun (plain wooden Rem 700 or 870 ) will indeed have a worse effect in public.
Big gun = big drama. The self-defense issue will be COMPLETELY mooted - "whadda he need that big ol'
thang for?"

Maybe not in, say, Alturas, but any exurban metro-ish area - the places where the votes count and senior
LE influence on key legislators is high.

>>Save our State wrote:
>> ...find a candidate or two that could beat Brown, and you might have a successful recall.

Yeah and if I had a chicken I could have some eggs too.

Recalls are very expensive and sentiment is not for them unless great screwups. Legislature is held in
more contempt than governorship right now. Most voters are happy (somewhat) with Brown... remember
that conservative types way overestimate the popularity of their positions.

... no current Republican that's rationally perceived as remotely ready to be governor could beat Brown.
The CA GOP name is tarnished in BS and they can barely hold 1/3 legislative seats. They won't recover
as they can barely hold safe seats, and swing seats have a high proportion of younger F voters plus
freethinkers on abortion/LGBT issues, etc. - which mitigates against the Old White Guy Vagina Managers
trying to run for office.

GOP holds no statewide seats (and would lose state dogcatcher if that slot were available). There is no
'bench' thus this is why 'outliers' like eMeg, Schwarzenneger, Poizner etc got into play - plus they reward
the CA GOP hierarchy by supplying their own money so party stays solvent while still losing. As far back
as late 90s Danny Lungren was sent packing after he opened his mouth about abortion - he made Grey
Davis actually look desirable. (Lungren is a gun grabber too.) That's also what lost Carly Fiorina 4 points
against Boxer, otherwise she might've had a chance given Boxer's high negatives.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA