General public cant carry condition 1?

[ed]

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NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:

And somehow the conversation moved to carrying condition 1. He said that the public is not allowed to carry condition 1. Claimed that only police can carry with a round chambered.

"cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

I too agree with the NEVER GO ASK.

Finally.. REGAL is anti gun. Of the 30 foot long ticket window.. you will fine a clear sticker with very small back text (bring you magnifying glass and if you really wanna READ it, ask a ticker seller to hold up a white piece of paper agaist the glass to give the small text some contrast). There is also a little image of a revolver with a red circle and line thru it. So I don't carry a revolver.



BUT OC and or ASKING could end up putting LARGE SIGNS on ALL DOORS.

Ed

 

[ProShooter]

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nova wrote:
If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...

ProShooter wrote: Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top.

nova wrote: I never said GMU PD is uneducated on gun laws,

ok, color me confused......

 

[peter nap]

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ProShooter wrote:

nova wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

nova wrote:

And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...

I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.

I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.

BUT......the officer in question was not serving in his capacity (apparently from the story) as a GMU police officer, but rather as a private security guard for the theater. Was he in a GMU uniform? Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top. Believe me when I say that I worked with ALOT of deputies that were not "gun people" and couldnt even tell you what Condition 1 was. Maybe the officer didnt really know and was embarassed by the question since he didnt know the answer, and he got it wrong....stuff happens.

The OP engaged the officer/guard in a conversation and the officer/guard made a mistake in his reply. He was misinformed. He didnt confront the OP nor did he take any official action which inhibited or restricted the rights of the OP in any way. Gosh, if I called someone's manager everytime a human being made a mistake, I'd be on the phone all damn day.

"What do you mean that the item is not in stock? I called yesterday and you had 2. I'm sending a letter to your boss to complain!"

"Waitress, I ordered my eggs scrambled, these are fried. I want to see your manager right now"....

I have no problem holding people accountable for serious mistakes, but I don't play tattle-tale if someone makes a simple mistake. Shouldn't we have a bit more compassion and understanding for another human being than that?

This is a VERY fine line.
I happen to agree with Pro Shooter about this. Had the officer pulled someone or made that statement while on duty and talking to the OP, BUST HIS ASS. But a casual conversation is different. IMO, you should have corrected him sternly but the simple fact is, we all say thing that are incorrect sometimes.

I believe firmly in filling an officers file when he deserves it but it doesn't look like he did anything other than making an incorrect comment.

Not being a diplomat, I may have finished the conversation by saying that what he doesn't know would fill a good sized library....but I doubt I would have complained to the boss.

A lot of cops are Stupid ...er STOOPID, but not necessarily bad.

 

[riverrat10k]

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Don't forget wheel guns. My concealed (and sometimes OC"d) gun is always in condition two unless I unload a chamber. No safety at all. No external hammer.

Or is it condition one? Whatever. Unloaded gun is like a car without gas. Still some use, but not for it's primary purpose.

 

[NightmareSHANIQUA]

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ed wrote:

NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:

And somehow the conversation moved to carrying condition 1. He said that the public is not allowed to carry condition 1. Claimed that only police can carry with a round chambered.

"cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

I too agree with the NEVER GO ASK.

Finally.. REGAL is anti gun. Of the 30 foot long ticket window.. you will fine a clear sticker with very small back text (bring you magnifying glass and if you really wanna READ it, ask a ticker seller to hold up a white piece of paper agaist the glass to give the small text some contrast). There is also a little image of a revolver with a red circle and line thru it. So I don't carry a revolver.



BUT OC and or ASKING could end up putting LARGE SIGNS on ALL DOORS.

Ed

But I mean wouldnt putting large signs up after asking prevent possibly OC harassment instead of going in OC and having management flip, police be called, and all the other hassle? I mean Im all for OC, but the scene that it would make and the chaos that could come of that really seems pretty needless when asking only causes them to put a sign up. My response to those businesses? Fine, you dont even get a second thought for me to patronize your business.

I understand some people want to prove the point with our 2A rights, but Im a little more cautious. I dont have money to burn on a lawyer when I get arrested because some proprietor or business owner completely blows something out of proportion. (And I know that you guys will say lawsuit and the recent ruling about the department paying for the wrongful arrest proceedings, but I cant lose my job or time in school to prove that point.) Until then Ill use this community as a highly resourceful tool in identifying gun friendly and unfriendly businesses. I respect your decisions to carry until told otherwise, but like I said before, asking is something I was raised to do.

As I see it, large signs on all the doors would be better anyway. It only marks them so we know not to contribute to their business and makes it easier for those that do carry but arent a part of this community to notice as well.

 

[wylde007]

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Every opportunity to educate the general public (and even sometimes poorly informed/trained mercenary municipal security details) should be taken.

Putting up signs removes opportunity by removing a venue. No conflict, no resolution. Nothing.

It's not that we want confrontation, but anywhere that is not posted should not be encouraged to post. That's a despicable practice and having a lawfully armed citizen suggest it is like the guy in the electric chair pointing out to the warden that it's not plugged in.

OK, that's a little extreme... but why give them the chance?

 

[NightmareSHANIQUA]

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wylde007 wrote:

Every opportunity to educate the general public (and even sometimes poorly informed/trained mercenary municipal security details) should be taken.

Putting up signs removes opportunity by removing a venue. No conflict, no resolution. Nothing.

It's not that we want confrontation, but anywhere that is not posted should not be encouraged to post. That's a despicable practice and having a lawfully armed citizen suggest it is like the guy in the electric chair pointing out to the warden that it's not plugged in.

OK, that's a little extreme... but why give them the chance?

I agree with educating... But how often do we beat our heads against the wall after trying to explain to someone so bent on anti 2A? Maybe some people are more convincing than myself, but I consider myself educated and have informed quite a few of my VA friends since I started carrying not too long ago. Im just saying we have had several stories on this board where managers or property owners have tried to be educated and it ends with the member still leaving and sometimes with the police. Obviously the police are only there as a piece of mind, but you can see what Im saying?

 

[Smurfologist]

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I always carry what I believe to be condition 1 (I carry a Beretta PX-4 Storm .40 cal 17 + 1, round in chamber, unexposed hammer, with no safety, which is why I said it the way I did). That was some bogus information that NightmareSHANIQUAwas told. I do not want to be fumbling around with my weapon if I ever need to protect myself.:banghead:

After being embarrassed for OCing at the Consolidated Theater Complexin Kingstown (which is now Regal Theaters), this is a touchy subject for me when it comes to whether or not an establishment does not want you to carry revolvers on their premises (see post: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3796.html).

I frequent this website to see what the trends are when it comes to Regal Theaters and I know that even though they do not want me carrying revolvers, I carrya semi-autobecause I do not believe I will be protected if some maniac decided they hate the world and want to kill everyone in it while they are watching Michael Moore's new movie (smile).

After going through my situation, I totally understand why Regal Theaters would put an inconspicuous sign like the one Ed so eloquently described where you have to use a magnifying glass to see it instead of posting a big neon sign that let's everyone know that their patrons are unarmed. They could do like AMC Theaters which post "No Revolvers" on all of their doors (on the bottom) and have cops at the entrances (Hoffman - Alexandria). Although personally, I hate that you have to go searching for a very small, inconspicuous sign anywhere you go to see if you are able to enter an establishment while OCing revolvers (or CCing revolvers in some cases), I do understand it from Regal's (and the rest)perspective.

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

 

[hunter45]

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Smurfologist wrote:

I always carry what I believe to be condition 1 (I carry a Beretta PX-4 Storm .40 cal 17 + 1, round in chamber, unexposed hammer, with no safety, which is why I said it the way I did). That was some bogus information that NightmareSHANIQUA was told. I do not want to be fumbling around with my weapon if I ever need to protect myself.:banghead:

Isn't it considered "condition 0" when you have no safeties? I used to carry my 1911 like that until more than one person told me I should always have the thumb safety on. So now I carry in condition 1, with the thumb safety on.

 

[TFred]

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NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:

I agree with educating... But how often do we beat our heads against the wall after trying to explain to someone so bent on anti 2A? Maybe some people are more convincing than myself, but I consider myself educated and have informed quite a few of my VA friends since I started carrying not too long ago. Im just saying we have had several stories on this board where managers or property owners have tried to be educated and it ends with the member still leaving and sometimes with the police. Obviously the police are only there as a piece of mind, but you can see what Im saying?

The flaw with your analogy is that by asking for a determination one way or the other, you are forcing the hand of someone who may not be "bent on anti 2A" to give an answer which is "bent on anti 2A", simply because to the uneducated mind, it's the easier, less risky, "can't we all just get along", politically correct answer.

A hard lesson I learned many years ago was "Do not ask questions that you don't want to know the answer to." This clearly applies.

Here's the thing. This is an open carry forum. The general purpose of this forum and the organization OCDO as I understand it (meaning that I don't speak for Mike, John, or anyone other than myself) is to promote and encourage the normalization of open carry to the largest extent possible.

You don't promote normalization by going around asking "may I?" Open carry is normal. Period. If someone does not agree with that, then make them take the initiative to be wrong. We must respect the property of others, and obey laws, but after doing this, you are clearly on the moral high ground, and you have had the opportunity to respectfully educate, and make it known that your rights are more important than whatever good or service it is that they are hoping to sell you.

Nobody said this process was without consequence. If you are with family or friends, they certainly become a part of the equation, and you must weigh the cost of your stand, and the price of possible inconvenience on your companions. In such cases, where legal, you may be better off carrying concealed for the event, or finding another business.

I think the point you will find almost universally embraced here is that in almost no circumstance is it better for either you, or for the OC cause as a whole, to make a practice out of asking. I hope you see why.

TFred

 

[TFred]

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Database error, double post! Grr...

TFred

 

[wylde007]

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NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:

I agree with educating... But how often do we beat our heads against the wall after trying to explain to someone so bent on anti 2A? Maybe some people are more convincing than myself, but I consider myself educated and have informed quite a few of my VA friends since I started carrying not too long ago. I'm just saying we have had several stories on this board where managers or property owners have tried to be educated and it ends with the member still leaving and sometimes with the police. Obviously the police are only there as a piece of mind, but you can see what I'm saying?

Well, yeah. You have to pick your battles. You also have to be confident and maybe even a little crazy. It takes a lot of chutzpah to try and dress down a store manager or employee. Even more so if there's an officer present.

The best thing to do is keep your composure, stand by your convictions (making doubly sure the LAW is on your side) and try to present a defendable argument. If they still want you to leave, get the address for the corporate office and remind them that you are taking your business (read: money) elsewhere. Continuing to stay on site invites trespassing complications.

If the police show up, maintain composure. If asked to leave, leave. It's very simple.

We cannot be bullied into giving up our rights and why would you want to spend what little money you have left after the government is done sacking your paycheck at an establishment that doesn't respect your freedoms?

 

[Smurfologist]

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hunter45 wrote:

Smurfologist wrote:

I always carry what I believe to be condition 1 (I carry a Beretta PX-4 Storm .40 cal 17 + 1, round in chamber, unexposed hammer, with no safety, which is why I said it the way I did). That was some bogus information that NightmareSHANIQUAwas told. I do not want to be fumbling around with my weapon if I ever need to protect myself.:banghead:

Isn't it considered "condition 0" when you have no safeties? I used to carry my 1911 like that until more than one person told me I should always have the thumb safety on. So now I carry in condition 1, with the thumb safety on.

Condition 0 works for me, hunter45 (smile). My weapon does not have a thumb safety (or any safety). I guess if there is a safety to be counted, it would be my finger not being on the trigger or when it is in the holster (smile). It has a very long trigger pull. There are other models of the same weapon that does have a thumb safety, but, this model does not. Just wanted to point that out.

When I carry my Colt .380, I carry condition 2. I usually carry it in my hoodie or in my coat pocket (hand on it at all times). But, I will never carry without a round in the chamber. I contemplated on quiting my part time job because there were rumblings aboutwhen we switched from .38 revolvers to Beretta PX 4 Storm 9mm, there would not be a round in the chamber. When management actually spoke with people who were familiar with guarding "assets", they were quick to change their minds (smile).

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

 

[zoom6zoom]

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Condition 5 - It's out in the car.

 

[ProShooter]

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Smurfologist wrote:

I frequent this website to see what the trends are when it comes to Regal Theaters and I know that even though they do not want me carrying, I carry concealed anyway..........

You may want to reword this post.

Its not really considered good form to announce that you knowingly violate the law on a public forum.

 

[nova]

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ProShooter wrote:

nova wrote:
If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...

ProShooter wrote: Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top.

nova wrote: I never said GMU PD is uneducated on gun laws,

ok, color me confused......

notice the wording I originally used...I said "IF", not "SINCE" or some other word meaning they "ARE."

 

[NightmareSHANIQUA]

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wylde007 wrote:

NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:

I agree with educating... But how often do we beat our heads against the wall after trying to explain to someone so bent on anti 2A? Maybe some people are more convincing than myself, but I consider myself educated and have informed quite a few of my VA friends since I started carrying not too long ago. I'm just saying we have had several stories on this board where managers or property owners have tried to be educated and it ends with the member still leaving and sometimes with the police. Obviously the police are only there as a piece of mind, but you can see what I'm saying?

Well, yeah. You have to pick your battles. You also have to be confident and maybe even a little crazy. It takes a lot of chutzpah to try and dress down a store manager or employee. Even more so if there's an officer present.

The best thing to do is keep your composure, stand by your convictions (making doubly sure the LAW is on your side) and try to present a defendable argument. If they still want you to leave, get the address for the corporate office and remind them that you are taking your business (read: money) elsewhere. Continuing to stay on site invites trespassing complications.

If the police show up, maintain composure. If asked to leave, leave. It's very simple.

We cannot be bullied into giving up our rights and why would you want to spend what little money you have left after the government is done sacking your paycheck at an establishment that doesn't respect your freedoms?

+1 That makes a lot more sense now that you have put it that way. I completely agree with that and will start to take a more firm stance and stop asking. Ill let you guys know how it goes next time.

 

[Smurfologist]

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ProShooter wrote:

Smurfologist wrote:

I frequent this website to see what the trends are when it comes to Regal Theaters and I know that even though they do not want me carrying, I carry concealed anyway..........

You may want to reword this post.

Its not really considered good form to announce that you knowingly violate the law on a public forum.

How about now?!?:what:

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

 

[Neplusultra]

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ed wrote:

There is also a little image of a revolver with a red circle and line thru it. So I don't carry a revolver.

Almost LOL :^). Smart ass.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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TexasNative wrote:

Not meaning to offend anyone, but it's pretty silly to carry a gun without a round chambered. "I'm almost ready to defend myself, let me just do this one little thing first, okay?"

This reminds me of the often-reported conversation when someone asked an open-carrier, "Isn't that dangerous?" The answer: "It damn well better be! I wouldn't be carrying it otherwise."

~ Boyd

:exclaim: Amen to that.