Government Nonsense; Waco Biker Gunfight

[skidmark]

Lemme see here -

The CoC is where clubs take their beefs to have them hashed out. Bikers I know tell me there are rather formal truces worked out so that flare-ups do not happen in the CoC meeting.

A flare-up started in the CoC meeting. Rather than continue inside where the aggressors might have a better chance of controlling the situation, the flare-up moved (was moved?) outside.

Random guess here - the disputing parties from inside gained support from the presence of fellow club members and allies, as well as those not wanting to become directly involved egging on the flare-up.

The flare-up escalates, allegedly from fists to knives.

Then shots ring out. Who shot first is still in question.

But -- Twin Peaks brought this all on themselves. Because they could have told the CoC to go find another place to hold its meeting. Because they (possibly, based on the fact that in the past other club/multi-club functions took place there and CoCs are usually held on neutral turf) could have/should have distrusted the various clubs' ability to maintain a truce inside the premises. And by not doing so they bear responsibility for what happened.

If she had not been wearing those clothes she would not have been raped. Fits here, too?

[aliquid hic]

 

[WalkingWolf]

Lemme see here -

The CoC is where clubs take their beefs to have them hashed out. Bikers I know tell me there are rather formal truces worked out so that flare-ups do not happen in the CoC meeting.

A flare-up started in the CoC meeting. Rather than continue inside where the aggressors might have a better chance of controlling the situation, the flare-up moved (was moved?) outside.

Random guess here - the disputing parties from inside gained support from the presence of fellow club members and allies, as well as those not wanting to become directly involved egging on the flare-up.

The flare-up escalates, allegedly from fists to knives.

Then shots ring out. Who shot first is still in question.

But -- Twin Peaks brought this all on themselves. Because they could have told the CoC to go find another place to hold its meeting. Because they (possibly, based on the fact that in the past other club/multi-club functions took place there and CoCs are usually held on neutral turf) could have/should have distrusted the various clubs' ability to maintain a truce inside the premises. And by not doing so they bear responsibility for what happened.

If she had not been wearing those clothes she would not have been raped. Fits here, too?

[aliquid hic]

Maybe, but isn't the same as a business keeping out scary gun owners?

You can have coerced safety, or liberty, but you can't have both.

 

[KBCraig]

Thety could have had a state of emergency declared and restricted the carrying of weapons in the emergency zone.

There is no legal authority in Texas do so any such thing. The law specifically bans seizing firearms or ammunition from anyone legally possessing them.

They could have enforced the municipal parking codes and towed any motorcycle not legally parked

Other than parking in a fire lane or handicapped spot, municipal parking codes don't apply to private property.

 

[HPmatt]

Twin peaks is on a privately-owned pad site.

If I owned the bar, and these groups had peacefully met there in the past, I do not think I would allow police to tell me to cancel an event that could gross my restaurant 200x3 beers+food ($30/head)-$6000 low side.

If cops thought violence was coming down I suppose they could invoke whatever laws applied to stop something 'imminent' assuming there is such provision (details along the various options Skid and Citizen were wrassling over).

I expect details wii come out on this at some point - like employee statements [would you as a waitress or bartender say anything bad about ant Gang??? I wouldn't want to kiss a broken beer bottle 3 months later after saying the Cossacks dtarted it and I would testify!!!..].is a little complicated in that can you believe anything coming from gang members....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WalkingWolf]

There is no legal authority in Texas do so any such thing. The law specifically bans seizing firearms or ammunition from anyone legally possessing them.






Other than parking in a fire lane or handicapped spot, municipal parking codes don't apply to private property.

They use to have a law like that here in NC. But the courts ruled it unconstitutional .

 

[utbagpiper]

Twin peaks is on a privately-owned pad site.

If I owned the bar, and these groups had peacefully met there in the past, I do not think I would allow police to tell me to cancel an event that could gross my restaurant 200x3 beers+food ($30/head)-$6000 low side.

Have we seen what the request from the cops was? Did they actually ask the restaurant to close down?

Methinks that just shifts the "meeting" to another location.

I can imagine the cops asking if they could station a couple dozen officers in full riot gear inside the restaurant, and then being told no (bad for sales at least).

I can also imagine them asking if a few undercover cops could work as busboys or waiters for the event to keep a closer eye on things. (Maybe bad for health if the gangs find out a "trusted" business owner helped the cops spy on their meeting.)

Lacking further information, I'm still thinking the cops handled things about as well as one might have hoped given constitutional and practical constraints.

Charles

 

[HPmatt]

This is not a Waco cop, but you gotta check'em all...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sudden valley gunner]

This is not a Waco cop, but you gotta check'em all...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL...now thats funny right there.

 

[HPmatt]

this looks like a good website with lots of links re: reporting on Waco, who knows the veracity of the 'tv journalism'. Aging rebel does take a good skeptical approach to what is currently out there not really based on objective facts

http://www.agingrebel.com/12889


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Citizen]

this looks like a good website with lots of links re: reporting on Waco, who knows the veracity of the 'tv journalism'. Aging rebel does take a good skeptical approach to what is currently out there not really based on objective facts

http://www.agingrebel.com/12889


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the link.

The author lost credibility with me in the first sentence where he called it a massacre. Massacre's are one-sided affairs. For example, the US Army opening up on the Native Americans at Wounded Knee. For all we know, each of the nine dead involved individual uses of lethal force or self-defense against another. Among, what? Five biker gangs + cops. This isn't warfare where everybody in front of you is an enemy who can be shot. Every bullet launched has to be a justified use of lethal force against an aggressor.

That aside, the article raises interesting points, like the quote about one of the biker dead being a type of fella who would tend to de-escalate. The logic doesn't hold, but I hadn't thought about the possibility that a government agent provocateur might have incited a fist-fight to trigger police intervention and lots of arrests, but the intended incitement got way out of hand. Given how common the tactic of planting an agent provocateur is for government, I think that thread needs to pulled hard and followed to every dead end possible.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Thats what I'm thinking Citizen. Seems like the cops knew something ahead of time. Did they have a disgusting, devious, lying undercover agent? Were they the cops planning on doing something and hence the "asking for cooperation"?

I have learned long ago never trust what the state says especially their street warriors.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

The store brought this on themselves. They alone could have prevented the violence...

I think Harley Davidson must bear a good portion of the blame also.
I doubt seriously we would be burdened with the plague of violent biker gangs without the bikes.
Bike manufacturers know very well some of their products will further the violence. They could have prevented it.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I think Harley Davidson must bear a good portion of the blame also.
I doubt seriously we would be burdened with the plague of violent biker gangs without the bikes.
Bike manufacturers know very well some of their products will further the violence. They could have prevented it.

Let's not forget the federal government, where are the Bike control laws. Harley universal background checks?

 

[deepdiver]

Thats what I'm thinking Citizen. Seems like the cops knew something ahead of time. Did they have a disgusting, devious, lying undercover agent? Were they the cops planning on doing something and hence the "asking for cooperation"?

I have learned long ago never trust what the state says especially their street warriors.

Pa: Well, it says here in this article Ma that 100+ outlaw biker gang members are coming to our little town for some kind of meeting over at that restaurant by the shopping mall. Maybe you should do your shopping early this week in case there's trouble over there.

Ma: Really, Pa? Do you know something because of a disgusting, devious, lying undercover agent or are you just guessing? Seriously, when was the last time 100+ outlaw bikers got together and there were any problems?

Pa: You got a point, Ma. Guess I'm just feeling hyperbolic and rights restricting today. I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Just friendly bikers doing what friendly bikers do.

 

[SW40VE-OC]

It could also be Hooters fault. Free market capitslism/ competition is bad these days it seems.
For those of you not familiar with the area in question: (formerly)Twin Peaks in Waco is one exit away from Hooters.

 

[Citizen]

Thats what I'm thinking Citizen. Seems like the cops knew something ahead of time. Did they have a disgusting, devious, lying undercover agent? Were they the cops planning on doing something and hence the "asking for cooperation"?

I have learned long ago never trust what the state says especially their street warriors.

Here is an interesting article by Will Grigg.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/false-flags-biker-gangs-and-the-patcon-legacy/


Excerpt:

Buried beneath the blizzard of re-purposed official press releases is a critical disclosure made by former FBI undercover operative John Matthews: During the 1990s, as part of the FBI’s PATCON (Patriot Conspiracy) operation, Matthews and his handler, Donald Jarrett, sold illegally converted full-auto machine guns to narcotics-dealing motorcycle gangs. (I first reported about this in early March.) This was done through one of the firearms stores later forced by the ATF into participating in the “Fast & Furious” gun-walking scandal, in which firearms of that kind were provided to operatives of Mexican criminal cartels.



Now, wouldn't it be interesting to discover a connection between Fast & Furious, FBI, ATF, and the Twin Peaks incident? We know there was massive cover-up about Fast & Furious. Maybe it was just because Fast & Furious alone was embarrassing and illegal. Or, maybe it was because digging too deep into Fast & Furious would have exposed other non-sense in other areas, meaning multiple operations involving illegality and highly questionable tactics.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Initially I was not suspicious of the police in this incident at all.

However, their mass arrest response, completely unconstitutional and malicious charging and bond setting, and confidently stated remarks which are nearly immediately contradicted by evidence make me increasingly suspicious of them.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

Initially I was not suspicious of the police in this incident at all.

However, their mass arrest response, completely unconstitutional and malicious charging and bond setting, and confidently stated remarks which are nearly immediately contradicted by evidence make me increasingly suspicious of them.

Agreed it's crazy that the mass arrests are completely acceptable to the general public.
And $1M bail for men arrested for vague "criminal activity" seems like a violation of the 8th.

 

[utbagpiper]

Hundreds of bikers from rival, criminal, violent gangs. A large fight amongst the bikers that escalates to shootings. Several dead and injured criminal gang members.

And the problem here is the cops engaging in some kind of grand conspiracy to provoke and then to set bails that way too high for the upstanding, peaceable bikers who don't pose a flight risk?

Somehow I'm think Occam's Razor is not computing on some conclusions being drawn.