HB 937 hold your nose

[WalkingWolf]

I understand you have an "all or nothing" position. How is that working for you, how do you expect it will actually change anything. Are you using your LEO status as your authority to OC, or do you not qualify as a retired LEO? I had a student that was a reserve deputy, and OC's to class (community college), which wasn't an issue with me, but was for many, especially that didn't know he was a LEO.

The person that refuses to work within the system won't change the law, but will create a great deal of unnecessary issues for themselves and their cause. We all have a desire to tell those that are wrong to "f" off, but if they have the authority we also understand that is counter productive. You were a LEO, if some one you stopped told you to F-off, I'm sure you would have let them go on their way, right?

OBTW, I carried today, both CC and OC, and I honored the "no guns allowed" sign at the building my dentists office is in.

What kind of ignorance is the above, you don't need a LEO status to OC in North Carolina. As far as CC I fall under LEOSA if I choose to CC, but that is statist and unfair and just outright wrong to the rest of the good people. Some of us just believe in the rights of everybody, just not only looking out for themselves.

 

[XD40sc]

Gun control has always been racist, do some research. PPP was a racist law, before insta check, racism was the roots. But by federal law it can no longer be administered on the base of racism. The cost is relative low, and it's use for long guns is very beneficial, as well as handguns. It is not perfect but it is hell of a lot better than taking it away completely on another trip to push people towards CHPs, which is gun control, and it is difficult for minorities and lower income class, AND SINGLE MOTHERS.

There is little doubt the goal of GRNC is to not only promote a privilege, but to eliminate a right. That is racism! You don't think he does not know how difficult it is for minorities that have to work two or more jobs, and have little extra funds? You don't think he does not know about how costly child care and extra time is for single mothers? There is no doubt about this, remove OC and many minorities will be denied the right to self defense.

Agreed the cost of the course ($50 to $150) plus the $90 to apply for a CHP, plus medical record check fees ($15 in my case) can be beyond some. A PPP card for a nominal fee ($5 - 10) would help many.

Propose legislation to your representative in Raleigh that a PPP system be developed where a perspective gun purchaser can present the card, fill out the 4473, pay the man and walk out with the gun. No tracking, no limitation on how many handguns can be purchased (a single PPP can be used to purchase an unlimited number of long guns for those not aware of NC PPP's) Basically a card that states you are a citizen that can legally own a gun. No NICS check (which is prone to problems) and without all the violation of rights you associate with the CHP process.

But when HB 937 becomes law, they can go to the LGS, have the NICS run, pay for the gun and leave with it. Having never purchased a gun with an NICS check I don't know if there is a charge or not.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Agreed the cost of the course ($50 to $150) plus the $90 to apply for a CHP, plus medical record check fees ($15 in my case) can be beyond some. A PPP card for a nominal fee ($5 - 10) would help many.

Propose legislation to your representative in Raleigh that a PPP system be developed where a perspective gun purchaser can present the card, fill out the 4473, pay the man and walk out with the gun. No tracking, no limitation on how many handguns can be purchased (a single PPP can be used to purchase an unlimited number of long guns for those not aware of NC PPP's) Basically a card that states you are a citizen that can legally own a gun. No NICS check (which is prone to problems) and without all the violation of rights you associate with the CHP process.

But when HB 937 becomes law, they can go to the LGS, have the NICS run, pay for the gun and leave with it. Having never purchased a gun with an NICS check I don't know if there is a charge or not.

I plan on it, but it is something that GRNC should have done, they also need to step up to the plate and bring in minorities and provide financial assistance to do it with. This is not the first time I have brought up that free classes should be provided, that fell on deaf ears. There is a lot that can be done to show that GRNC is not all about me me money and me. But they don't do it. Some of the members come here to insult OC, and OC members. They DEMAND support when they offer nothing in return, and wonder why some of us have no use for them. I have nothing against CC, I have a lot against cronyism, bullying, and outright lying. According to NC constitution OC is right, CC is a privilege, and GRNC is clearly trying to reverse it. The PPP system should be changed to shall issue, and be optional, but it should not be eliminated. I have never had a check less than 30 minutes, and a couple that went over 48 hours. I learned quick to keep a couple PPPs in my wallet. I have the time, but a single mother holding down two jobs does not. As I already stated, my wife purchased a gun in less than 15 minutes, which would not have been possible without the PPP.

 

[XD40sc]

What kind of ignorance is the above, you don't need a LEO status to OC in North Carolina. As far as CC I fall under LEOSA if I choose to CC, but that is statist and unfair and just outright wrong to the rest of the good people. Some of us just believe in the rights of everybody, just not only looking out for themselves.

You do on a college campus, and many other GFZ's for citizens, either for OC and CC, CHP or not. If you were a LEO, you would know this, right?

 

[WalkingWolf]

You do on a college campus, and many other GFZ's for citizens, either for OC and CC, CHP or not. If you were a LEO, you would know this, right?

I am a retired LEO, and have to follow all the state laws everybody else does. If you were intelligent you would know that, right?

Besides I am not a elitist only concerned about myself as some concealed carry permission card holder folks are. I am but one person, there are many in this state that deserve the same privileges that those who think they are privileged. But hey I believe minorities and the lower income class deserve the same right to self defense. I guess you don't?

 

[XD40sc]

I am a retired LEO, and have to follow all the state laws everybody else does. If you were intelligent you would know that, right?

Besides I am not a elitist only concerned about myself as some concealed carry permission card holder folks are. I am but one person, there are many in this state that deserve the same privileges that those who think they are privileged. But hey I believe minorities and the lower income class deserve the same right to self defense. I guess you don't?

You know you could use facts instead of personal insults to convey your points, but that isn't your style is it. I can only be grateful that your are retired.

And I agree, as I stated above, the cost of the course and CHP process is prohibitive to many, and it shouldn't be. Hell those with limited incomes likely live in areas that make having home and self defense weapons are probably more crucial than for those where the costs are not an issue.

 

[WalkingWolf]

You know you could use facts instead of personal insults to convey your points, but that isn't your style is it. I can only be grateful that your are retired.

And I agree, as I stated above, the cost of the course and CHP process is prohibitive to many, and it shouldn't be. Hell those with limited incomes likely live in areas that make having home and self defense weapons are probably more crucial than for those where the costs are not an issue.

You seem to be rolling right along trying to attack me personally, and now you want to whimper? The facts are the class is time consuming, the permit is expensive, and the bill has absolutely no bearing on OC. There is no reason for any OCer to support it, it will only breed more racist gun control. The subject of affordable classes and/or free classes has been brought up and garnered the same insults from the same group. Other states they at least try to offer affordable classes or free classes. Gun control has always had it's roots in racism, and concealed carry permits are gun control.

 

[XD40sc]

You seem to be rolling right along trying to attack me personally, and now you want to whimper? The facts are the class is time consuming, the permit is expensive, and the bill has absolutely no bearing on OC. There is no reason for any OCer to support it, it will only breed more racist gun control. The subject of affordable classes and/or free classes has been brought up and garnered the same insults from the same group. Other states they at least try to offer affordable classes or free classes. Gun control has always had it's roots in racism, and concealed carry permits are gun control.

No, I didn't attack you, just pointed out your readiness to attack others by challenging their intelligence. I have never attacked your or any other posters intelligence, can you make that claim?

As a former LEO would you side with the 17 chiefs of UNC's campus police forces opposing the bill (if they actually had a choice), that weapons on campus, i.e. the ability for victims to defend themselves is a good thing or a bad thing?

OK, you don't support HB 937, I get that, and your position is clear, and functionally puts you on the same side of the fence as the liberals... I also have no statistics on race/economics vs PPP/CHP to debate, or the desire. Carry on.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Yes you did! My status as a LEO has nothing to do with this issue, yet YOU brought it in to make a smart butt remark. If you can't take it don't dish it out. Be a man and stop whimpering.

The bill only allows them to keep a gun in the vehicle, IF they have a CHP! Just more elitist racism! Yes I side with the chiefs!

 

[XD40sc]

I'll repeat the question in case you missed it;

As a former LEO would you side with the 17 chiefs of UNC's campus police forces opposing the bill (if they actually had a choice), that weapons on campus, i.e. the ability for victims to defend themselves is a good thing or a bad thing?

Yes or no?

 

[WalkingWolf]

I'll repeat the question in case you missed it;

As a former LEO would you side with the 17 chiefs of UNC's campus police forces opposing the bill (if they actually had a choice), that weapons on campus, i.e. the ability for victims to defend themselves is a good thing or a bad thing?

Yes or no?

I already answered, if you are too slow to comprehend it that is not my problem. But I will add that most mass shooters are white males, and the provisions would allow a white male shooter to bring a gun on campus, and then use it unlawfully. Where the minorities would be unable to defend themselves. It is also a fact that concealed carry permit holders commit more crimes than open carry individuals. So it would appear you would like to have minorities unable to defend themselves on campus and allow white males to bring guns on campus.

Yes or no?

 

[rotorhead]

Seriously, the allegations present in this thread are incredulous.

Anyone who thinks that GRNC supports this bill because it's designed to keep minorities and single mothers from owning a handgun has some serious issues lol. The parking lot portion is written as such because there was no way a legislator would propose anything deeper just yet. It just wasn't going to happen. Instead, they inserted what they thought they could ligitimately get this year- and it's working so far.

Last year, several in the NC Senate such as Berger and Apodaca caved to external pressure. This year, they are actually pushing it through. It's pure politics, but it's the environment that we're forced to work with. There's give and take and there is only so much that will be passed at any one time.

But seriously, the charges of racism and class containment are off the wall here.

 

[dashowdy]

I guess one thing you could do is just oc with a chp, think about it NC has no printing laws why could someone not legally oc into say a restaurant that serves alcohol if this bill passes. The permit would " give you permission" yes?

 

[ron73440]

Seriously, the allegations present in this thread are incredulous.

Anyone who thinks that GRNC supports this bill because it's designed to keep minorities and single mothers from owning a handgun has some serious issues lol. The parking lot portion is written as such because there was no way a legislator would propose anything deeper just yet. It just wasn't going to happen. Instead, they inserted what they thought they could ligitimately get this year- and it's working so far.

Last year, several in the NC Senate such as Berger and Apodaca caved to external pressure. This year, they are actually pushing it through. It's pure politics, but it's the environment that we're forced to work with. There's give and take and there is only so much that will be passed at any one time.

But seriously, the charges of racism and class containment are off the wall here.

I don't think the intent is racist, however, the effect of the laws to make it more expensive to excercise a right will obviously impact poor people more and that is class containment.

 

[ron73440]

I guess one thing you could do is just oc with a chp, think about it NC has no printing laws why could someone not legally oc into say a restaurant that serves alcohol if this bill passes. The permit would " give you permission" yes?

Asking permission to excercise a RIGHT.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I believe the law is a exercise in elitism, and like gun control, elitism at it's core is racist. Are we to assume that the leaders of GRNC are not aware of history or the impact of laws that separate people by class? It may not be their main goal, but I have no doubt they are aware, yet steam ahead anyway. When they have been asked what they plan to do to mitigate the factors, they insult.

 

[brutus1776]

What wait, I have several PPP, I can get 5 a month and stockpile them. Wife just bought a gun, NO WAIT, NO DELAY. Just hand over her PPP that she has had for over a year. If you did not notice the PPP is good for 5 years. So if you are say 2 hours from home and get delayed. Well you could get a motel room for over $100, or you could drive home and drive back, or you can just hand over your PPP.

I was not aware of the insta check pin number until recently, it seems not to be widely publicized. But hopefully the word can get out so everybody without one of those gov boot licking cards can buy a gun without hassle. I have talked to a few FFL in the last couple days over this, and they said many people get a CHP for no other reason to buy a gun without a hassle. Just how stupid is that! And YOU think the PPP is bad.

Hopefully the PPPs that holders have will still remain valid after the law is repealed. As it has been explained to me, by NCJA, the acceptance has nothing to do with state law, but US code. So ours should be good until they expire, others with them do not throw them away. But now I know about the pin it is a better option. Wonder why GRNC have not been informing their base about the pin, oooops that might deter more CC trainng money. As for why not support it? IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! It is a clear blatant attempt to do away with OC! PV has already made his feeling towards OC clear, he hates it, and is trying to eliminate it. Why should any OCer support a law that shoves a shive up our arse?

Money makes the world go around, the world go around. Money makes the GRNC go around, GRNC go around.

What if you dont have a PPP on hand nor want to go plead to the sheriff to get one?
With this bill, that entire system is gone, so then all you have to do is go to an FFL dealer, buy your guy, fill out the 4473, pass the NICS check and walk out, just like buying an AR15. Or you hand the private seller cash, and they hand you the handgun and you do not have to worry about going to jail for not having a PPP. Currently, if you want to get a handgun, you have to go to the sheriffs office first. My county will only give you 1 every 30 days. Why would anyone defend going to the sheriffs office, putting another layer of regulation on the whole transaction?

How is a PPP NOT a 'govt boot licking card so you can buy a gun?' I am in favor of eliminating the entire CHP system, and having 'constitutional carry' and I see no difference in a CHP or a PPP. Both are just permission slips. Eliminating this PPP provision from the state laws is a huge win for people who do not have CHP's and open carry and who now do not have to go to the sheriffs office to get a permit to buy a handgun from the guy down the road. I know many people who get CHP's just not have to go to the sheriffs office to buy a gun and dont even carry.

 

[rotorhead]

Maybe they insult as a result of being unduly labeled as racists who want to strip the rights of gun ownership away from single mothers and minorities? I mean, who wouldn't come in hard after some of the absolute crap accusations they have to put up with?

Wouldn't you?

Honestly, I'm surprised that they don't come back even harder, but maybe they realize that one or two people who have an agenda based on misinformation and flat out crazy accusations on one of many gun forums in the world aren't really worth the time to put into it. Personally, I don't think I could put up with such BS for months before finally coming in and defending myself, like they did. But that's just me.

If it was me that had to put up with all of that kind of idiocy, I'd have to seriously question the motives behind the attacks. This kind of paranoia which leads to such "a-ha! gotcha" moments is fairly entertaining, though.

Take care.

 

[REDFIVE48]

Wolf - not sure why you are so tied to a PPP that you have to make a special trip to the Sheriff for, seems like you are focused on a small percentage of issues with NICS (which would suck if they happened to you at a gun show) instead of the whole having to take a couple days to go the sheriff (if they don't do the permit granting immediately), and why pay $5 to the sheriff per permit when you shouldn't have to? You don't need a CHP to have a same day/time transaction for a gun!

I in NICS stands for Instant!
From the website: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2012-operations-report

The NICS Section achieved a 91.50 percent Immediate Determination Rate, surpassing the U.S. Attorney General-mandated goal of 90 percent or better.

The NICS availability averaged 99.89 percent.

 

[WalkingWolf]

The PPP is not a card for carry, but it was a Jim Crow law. It is no longer because of Federal Civil Rights laws, permits cannot be denied because of race. OTH dealers CAN claim a delay and refuse to sell if hey do not want to sell to a black. With a PPP a dealer cannot use this excuse, he will have to have a better reason. The insta check system sucks, that is why some people get CHP JUST to purchase firearms. Hell that is one of the selling points that the CC lobby uses to sell the scheme. The insta check system needs to work or go away, but until then there are only a few options to go around it. CHP, and PPP are two of them, the other the PIN number is not widely known.

A lot of people do not have time to stand around a gun shop for hours waiting on a insta check to clear. Some sheriffs office allow applying for PPP online. So until the PPP clears a visit sometimes is not even necessary until it clears. I used to call the sheriffs office as they had my info on file. And then only had to pick it up on my way past the office, and that only took seconds for me to pay and them to hand me the permit.

This move was not about rights of gun owners, if it was there would be no CHP. This was a move to make it more inconvenient to buy a gun, everybody who buys or knows anything about guns knows the usefulness of PPPs. Another attempt to put money in the pocket of trainers who put money in the pocket of GRNC. And the result is a law that was originally a Jim Crow law, is Jim Crow by removing it without a proper system to replace it.

Does anybody honestly think Paul did not know the ramifications of this change?

The CHP is Jim Crow, by use of training mandates and expensive fees it is difficult for lower class minorities to obtain one. The organization pushing these laws should provide remedies, but they do not. And it is not because they are ignorant of the affect.