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how do self defense shootings get handled in virginia?

skidmark

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Hey! I'm supposed to be the pedantic olde phart here! What do you mean trying to usurp my position?:uhoh:

But yes, for the sake of strict accuracy the assault appears to result in a battery. But where is your citation for both assault and for battery, so you can demonstrate that there is no criminal act known as "assault and battery"? So there!
tongue0001.gif


stay safe.
 

peter nap

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I thought I read here on OCDO that assault is when you draw back and swing to hit someone, and BATTERY is when you "connect." Did I read that wrong? If not, then this scenario sounds like BATTERY to me.

You're right Joe but you can get lost in the technical definitions and the way the law is administered.

Technically, creating the fear is assault.
Hitting him is battery

and technically, hitting someone with anything but your hand is felonious assault.

That doesn't play out in the real world.

I stare at people. Grapeshot giggles about it and a lot of times I don't even mean to, but it scares some folks. I do this especially when I don't like them. You'd never get an assault conviction out of that.

Hitting people was not considered Politically Incorrect where I grew up. It was an extremely good way to finalize discussions that wouldn't go away. There is a high school picture of me with a deep cut under one eye. The fellow that gave me that went on to become a very good Police Chief. Boys will be boys.

There used to be a bar on Hankey Mountain where you were guaranteed to have to fight your way out of on Saturday night. It was almost recreational.

I hate horn honkers. When I'm at a stoplight and some idiot starts honking his horn, I park what I'm in/on and walk back and ask what they want. Scares some people to death. One fellow drove over the median strip to get away.....Is that assault?

Simple assault in practice, is assault and battery without any permanent harm.
I've never heard of anyone being charged with assault without the battery.
 
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The Wolfhound

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Why do I feel like I miss Hank T reading this? LOL

He would have been up to his scalp in this discussion.

Important questions to answer in this scenario: Could you de-fuse it? It will all depend on what options YOU see at the time. Lethal force is MOST justified when no other options are seen to exist.
 

Grapeshot

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He would have been up to his scalp in this discussion.

Important questions to answer in this scenario: Could you de-fuse it? It will all depend on what options YOU see at the time. Lethal force is MOST justified when no other options are seen to exist.

Hank T has been AWOL for a while now.
 

Marco

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I know of the case gary fisher where he spent years in jail and $500,000 in a self defense shooting in arizona but what about in virginia?


If that's what you know, you don't know much.
The guys name was Harold Fisher. Duh!!!!



I have now gotten more accustomed to quick drawing pepper spray gel and have my pistol as a backup for my pepper spray because I don't want to be lockup until a court trial to determine the verdict of the case.


First off, I must ask do you do any research on your own?
Secondly, while there are lots of knowledgable folks that post here, it should only be used as a base of information, all info should be confirmed by you the potential end user.

What if scenarios don't really tell you anything as each person see's the world/situation differently.



After reading many of your post I believe you should seek qualified instruction on legal issues as well as the use of firearms and deadly force, member User has very informative classes check one out.
I plugged Proshooter last time.

The beauty of less than lethal weapons is they usually aren't lethal, a mistake usually doesn't the result in a death.
The down side of LTL is that they aren't as effective (IMHO), so if you really are in a life and death, less than lethal might not be your best defense.


This is a good place to start your research:
http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html
 
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The Wolfhound

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I did consider him significantly obnoxious.

So I used the line from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail": "And there was much rejoicing.......yay". You would certainly admit this was his kind of topic: Shooter vs Unarmed (but probably deserving) opponent.

Such causes for rejoicing should be recognized at least by those of us who sparred or witnessed the sparring with him.:dude:
 

Marco

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Likewise a firearm. It doesn't keep me out of confrontations, it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't prevent road rage (except that it makes us really polite).

a firearm. It doesn't keep me out of confrontations, it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't prevent road rage (except that it makes us really polite).


If a situation is suddenly gravest extreme and you can deploy and put that front sight on target it can save you (even if you stop before pulling the trigger - the BG turns and runs away). That's all.

If I could afford it, I might hire a bodyguard who is a trained professional, and just carry a BUG in case the BG is taken out. I want the option of carrying, but I really don't want to be responsible if I can help it. However, even a bodyguard might not shoot someone who is going to shoot your spouse - whereas you would.

The point is when there is a highly chaotic situation all bets are off. It's a narrow path that allows you to use lethal means to self-defend and even then if no witnesses or video, you could still go to jail.

Disagree.
As, I've had folks get upset over what would be considered nothing by most reseasonable folks but the sight of my firearm (unintentional on my part) some how changes their tune. Now with regard to road rage, they can't see my gun but they can see my pro 2A stickers, no one has gotten froggy.

Agreed, The firearm/defensive weapon isn't to take life but to stop a threat.

Disagree, if I was the president of the United States I would still carry a primary (fullsized) firearm.

Disagree, even with witness's and video the law abiding still might go to jail. IMHO, There are lots of innocent folks put to death by our legal system and many sitting behind bars, because of witness testimony.
 
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skidmark

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....
I plugged Proshooter last time.
....

Had not heard that you did. How many shots, and where did he get hit?

And nobody has, to my knowledge, accused you of being mentally handicapped. Being mental? Yes! Handicapped? Never!

And we hardly ever make fun of your wearing short pants since All American Nightmare's own Surry saga.

stay safe.
 

Red Dawg

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Eastern VA, with too many people
Thoughts on this:
I have read posts/links from almost all of the states, and how things are going. One of the common themes I seem to come across is the "how low can I get away with shooting someone". I.e. what is the least someone can do for me to shoot them, and get away with it. Folks, even here in the relatively easy state of VA, if you are carrying a handgun hoping to shoot someone, you want to rethink how you do business. Most of the time it is from the newer posters. The "I'm scared defense" is not going to help you during trial. If that worked, then a 5'0 lady could walk into any bad neighborhood, and just start killing big (pick your race/ethnicity) guys, because she was scared. That dog won't hunt.
Some of us are fairly large country boys, and grew up tough. Some of us are Spec Forces trained. Some of us are Granpas, and look as if they wouldn't hurt a fly. Some of us are ladies who grew up with big brothers, and are proud, and trained, and etc...You get my drift. I also understand that not everyone is big, strong, fast, looks intimidating. No matter what, the gun can save your life, but it can ruin it too. Please, OP get training. If you can't afford to take a class, then learn from the net the basics, and get educated as soon as you can. While they are intelligent, and give great advice, they claim to not be experts, the guys that have over 2,000 posts on this forum, are a good start to getting the basics of the laws, and how to find good answers.
My bottom line, walk the flip away from trouble if you can. That handgun is a last resort. In the what ifs of the OPs scenario, I'm thinking, sorry, and walk away. It's not so important to get into confrontation of any little thing. You don't know what kind of day someone has had, and maybe just politely saying sorry, and walking away might make the difference in both your days.
 

peter nap

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Thoughts on this:
I have read posts/links from almost all of the states, and how things are going. One of the common themes I seem to come across is the "how low can I get away with shooting someone". I.e. what is the least someone can do for me to shoot them, and get away with it. Folks, even here in the relatively easy state of VA, if you are carrying a handgun hoping to shoot someone, you want to rethink how you do business. Most of the time it is from the newer posters. The "I'm scared defense" is not going to help you during trial. If that worked, then a 5'0 lady could walk into any bad neighborhood, and just start killing big (pick your race/ethnicity) guys, because she was scared. That dog won't hunt.
Some of us are fairly large country boys, and grew up tough. Some of us are Spec Forces trained. Some of us are Granpas, and look as if they wouldn't hurt a fly. Some of us are ladies who grew up with big brothers, and are proud, and trained, and etc...You get my drift. I also understand that not everyone is big, strong, fast, looks intimidating. No matter what, the gun can save your life, but it can ruin it too. Please, OP get training. If you can't afford to take a class, then learn from the net the basics, and get educated as soon as you can. While they are intelligent, and give great advice, they claim to not be experts, the guys that have over 2,000 posts on this forum, are a good start to getting the basics of the laws, and how to find good answers.
My bottom line, walk the flip away from trouble if you can. That handgun is a last resort. In the what ifs of the OPs scenario, I'm thinking, sorry, and walk away. It's not so important to get into confrontation of any little thing. You don't know what kind of day someone has had, and maybe just politely saying sorry, and walking away might make the difference in both your days.

Major Award!
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user

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Major Award!
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++ especially as to this part:
...One of the common themes I seem to come across is the "how low can I get away with shooting someone". I.e. what is the least someone can do for me to shoot them, and get away with it. Folks, even here in the relatively easy state of VA, if you are carrying a handgun hoping to shoot someone, you want to rethink how you do business. Most of the time it is from the newer posters. The "I'm scared defense" is not going to help you during trial....

I use that as a joke in my Deadly Force Seminar. There's always someone who asks a question that I can reinterpret as "How can I get away with actually blowing someone away as soon as possible?" I make fun of that question, because, in my opinion, most of what's going to be at issue if you have to go to trial for a criminal offense arising out of a shooting will be your attitude going into the shooting. As the actors like to say, "What's my motivation?". "Search your feelings, Luke."

If you are looking for a chance to blow someone away, then when you do, the result will be murder, regardless of how the confrontation popped up. If you are motivated by feelings of malice, revenge, or retribution, whether for a present wrong committed against you or because you're in "victim mode" because of prior events of depersonalization, then when you shoot someone, it'll be murder. You have to be pure in your intent. Your only proper motivation is self defense, defense of an innocent other person, or stopping a serious felony in progress (which pretty much amounts to equivalent to one of the other two).

I get asked questions on this by fundamentalist people of various religious persuasions who see a potential conflict between their religious precepts and the violence inherent in killing another human being. I tell them there is no conflict - your attitude, in Christian terms, is always to reflect God's love for His entire creation, including Badguy; but you also have a duty to defend yourself, and if Badguy attacks you, you don't have to feel any animosity toward him, you simply have to do what is necessary to protect yourself, your home, and your family. If you shoot because you do feel animosity or even a sense of violation, then that's a sin and probably a crime. (In the latter instance, if you feel wronged and violated, and you exact retribution against the perpetrator, it is no longer defense, it is murder, because you planned to, and did, take the life of another person; the "malice aforethought" doesn't have to be weeks in planning, a split-second's planning will do.) A good lawyer (hint, hint) may be able to persuade a jury that there's sufficient "reasonable doubt" that they should not convict, but that's a different issue.

As the Buddhists say, you have to be free from all attachment including to your own sense of right, in order to be able to take effective and proper action. I think (unlike the Jains who practice ahimsa as a religious precept) that a proper shooting can be effective action. And shooting well and effectively is a Zen thing - unless your mind is clear and you are free from internal dialog, you won't shoot straight, anyway.

And, as that great Spiritual Master, John Bernard Books, said,
It isn't always being fast, or even accurate that counts; it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing; they blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger...I won't.
- John Bernard Books played by John Wayne in The Shootist.
 

Grapeshot

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I neither expect to nor want to kill, injure, harm or hurt anyone, but I will not hesitate to do what is necessary to stop another from doing those to me or mine - given the circumstances and choices available to me.

Think before the fact and be prepared - for when the call is made, there will be precious little time to think.
 

skidmark

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He wanted to go inside with the big kids, but the nasty old deputy told him no. He had to go to the local general store to buy big boy pants.

There - that's probably the third time I've ever said/written "big boy" - and we all know when I did not say it!

Hope you're happy withyourself!

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by skidmark

...since All American Nightmare's own Surry saga.

stay safe.

I didn't hear about this one... Can someone elaborate?

He showed up at the courthouse for Skid's trial wearing short pants - the judge invited him to leave and not return until properly attired. Having accomplished the requisite metamorphosis, he was permitted to sit in the same room as the adults. :lol:

All American Nightmare did have a few things to say about it, but out of the judge's earshot. At least he wasn't wearing fipflops when he returned - prolly would have been found in contempt.
 
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MSC 45ACP

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Oh, That!

I was there for that. I thought that was minor. I'm always amazed at what people are wearing when they go to court. Remember what some of the other people were wearing? I was amazed that none of them were held in contempt!!!

I think Nightmare was picked on!!!
 
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