Incident at walmart

[eye95]

I would suggest that it is best not to put yourself into those situations needlessly to begin with.

I have already stated that, barring the situation developing around me, I would not have inserted myself. However, being in that situation, with a man already proven to be irrationally violent who has threatened my life, until he is gone, I will heighten my state of readiness, risking a rogue officer totally misreading the law and the situation rather than risking a nut who is mad at me and may be concealing.

Real wisdom prioritizes.

 

[eye95]

Be happy to sell it to a jury.

Also, I would advise folks to reevaluate their training if they don't have levels of readiness that are situation-dependent. Even officers will unsnap their retention if the situation dictates.

 

[hogeaterf6]

To me, in my personal opinion, merely threatening with a firearm without the intention of carrying out the action of shooting just screams to a jury that the person was not in fear of their life, thus invalidating the justification of self defense at the time the gun was initially fiddled with.

Isnt this one point of oc a firearm? As a crime deterant? no need to pull a gun if its visable.

 

[COMMANDER1911]

Be happy to sell it to a jury.

Also, I would advise folks to reevaluate their training if they don't have levels of readiness that are situation-dependent. Even officers will unsnap their retention if the situation dictates.

Most of us here are not officers. It's obvious we aren't going to agree on everything and that's perfectly fine. I'm leaving this thread alone now because as Dreamer stated, either Scott learned something or he didn't.

 

[Ivan Sample]

+1000

 

[HeroHog]

I too am a firm believer in that if you pull your gun, you better be doing it with every intent of using it RIGHT THEN. However, if I pull and start to squeeze that trigger and the situation changes, I am NOT going to shoot someone "just because I already drew". To do otherwise would be unwise I would think.

I mean, if they drop the threat, throw up their hands and back off, are you really going to continue to pull that trigger?

 

[eye95]

Be happy to sell it to a jury.

Also, I would advise folks to reevaluate their training if they don't have levels of readiness that are situation-dependent. Even officers will unsnap their retention if the situation dictates.

[/B]

Most of us here are not officers. It's obvious we aren't going to agree on everything and that's perfectly fine. I'm leaving this thread alone now because as Dreamer stated, either Scott learned something or he didn't.

Most of us are not officers??? I had no idea.

I was addressing the wisdom of heightening readiness if the threat escalates, without having to go all the way to deadly force. I pointed out that even officers do it. So questioning the wisdom of making sure it will take one less step should force become necessary or questioning the training of those who do so would be questioning the wisdom and the training of officers when they do it.

It would be kinda silly.

I hope I made my point a little clearer so that folks don't think I am equating us to officers.

 

[NRAMARINE]

I too am a firm believer in that if you pull your gun, you better be doing it with every intent of using it RIGHT THEN. However, if I pull and start to squeeze that trigger and the situation changes, I am NOT going to shoot someone "just because I already drew". To do otherwise would be unwise I would think.

I mean, if they drop the threat, throw up their hands and back off, are you really going to continue to pull that trigger?

+1 also, as far as training goes, many of us here are military trained, with operational experience, and quite adept at situational awareness.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.]

Please, "Scott", I'm begging you again. [/SIZE]
Find a qualified instructor, and take a freaking course.
Your safety, your freedom, and your LIFE depend on it...

A good place to start would be for him to read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme" which has some great information that everyone who carries should read. I know it was a real eye opener for me when I first read it.

Mas also has defensive classes available through the Massad Ayoob Group (massadayoobgroup.com) which gives a crash course in the judicious use of deadly force. I'm not affiliated with them in any way but the training they offer is highly regarded. Scott really needs to think about taking one of these classes or the equivalent as they will cover a lot of issues which will help him avoid any future problems.

I think we can all agree that Scott's heart was absolutely in the right place in that he wanted to help a fellow human being in trouble. In this, I hold him in high regard as I think a lot of people wouldn't get involved at all. That being stated, he does need to book up on state law (which is an ongoing education for all of us) and make every effort to protect himself as well as the person he is trying to help. That last thing I would want for myself or anyone else is for us, the "good guys" to end up being portrayed as the criminal on the witness stand. What hurts one of us, hurts all of us, at least in the public's eye...

 

[Ivan Sample]

A good place to start would be for him to read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme" which has some great information that everyone who carries should read. I know it was a real eye opener for me when I first read it.

Mas also has defensive classes available through the Massad Ayoob Group (massadayoobgroup.com) which gives a crash course in the judicious use of deadly force. I'm not affiliated with them in any way but the training they offer is highly regarded. Scott really needs to think about taking one of these classes or the equivalent as they will cover a lot of issues which will help him avoid any future problems.

I think we can all agree that Scott's heart was absolutely in the right place in that he wanted to help a fellow human being in trouble. In this, I hold him in high regard as I think a lot of people wouldn't get involved at all. That being stated, he does need to book up on state law (which is an ongoing education for all of us) and make every effort to protect himself as well as the person he is trying to help. That last thing I would want for myself or anyone else is for us, the "good guys" to end up being portrayed as the criminal on the witness stand. What hurts one of us, hurts all of us, at least in the public's eye...

Well said

 

[confedneck]

I have already stated that, barring the situation developing around me, I would not have inserted myself. However, being in that situation, with a man already proven to be irrationally violent who has threatened my life, until he is gone, I will heighten my state of readiness, risking a rogue officer totally misreading the law and the situation rather than risking a nut who is mad at me and may be concealing.

Real wisdom prioritizes.

Could not agree more. The OP was neutralizing a situation without "waiting until the last second" where the only option would have been to take a human life.