Irresponsible

[hugh jarmis]

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It's not that the hunters are less safe about handling firearms, it's that the act of hunting itself is less safe than OC for defense

precisely

When I go out hunting I intend to discharge my firearm. Hopefully multiple times.

When I OC, I likely will never discharge my firearm. Inherently more safe.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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I have avoided this thread since it drifted off to hunting, but no longer. It is a sorry state of something when it is admitted that hunting requires missing.

My hunting experience involves three stages. I learned to 'hunt' shooting crows and opossums over expensive crops, white asparagus and cantaloupes. The bounties had to pay for my ammo. I learned to wait and hit while shooting jackrabbits on the prairies of Idaho, shooting my Remington .17 at long and extreme ranges. I hunted deer in Idaho, north of Pocatello, for three days between classes, and fired one shot.

I don't find missing unsafe because I understand probability and risk calculus; mean free path and such.

Maybe now I can understand my community's affinity for blaze orange and relatively short range weapons. This despite the fact that the only noted hunting accident occurred thirty years ago. Still the grannies think it a death sentence to step out of doors without being dressed like their grandson going hunting.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting and neither is Article I Section 25. Hunting has its own amendment to the Wisconsin Constitution.

 

[McX]

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Hi guys, I just got here.................did I miss something?

 

[Lammie]

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Doug is right. The hunting amendment to the Wisconsin constitution is Article I section 26. Like he, I started hunting at an early age. I received my first gun, a Stevens .22 caliber single shot bolt action, on my ninth Christmas. I and my indian buddy spent many, many, many hours hunting in the woods of Northern Minnesota. My dad would give me five rounds of ammo. He said one was for verifying point of impact but he expected me to come home with four rabbits or squirrels or a combination. Did I learn to shoot? You bet. However the most important thing my dad taught me was that anytime you handle a firearm you make an obligation to safety. As he often told me "Once that bullet leaves the barrel, nothing can bring it back and dead is dead". Those words apply whether you are hunting or carrying for personal protection.

 

[J.Gleason]

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Lammie wrote:

Once that bullet leaves the barrel, nothing can bring it back and dead is dead


I can't think of a better way to say that, very well said!

 

[Carcharodon]

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I was thinking the exact same thing^^^

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

It is a sorry state of something when it is admitted that hunting requires missing.

This.......



There is nothing inherently dangerous about hunting, target shooting or other discharge of firearms if the very simple safety rules are followed. When individuals consciously choose to commit an unsafe act, it unfortunately is used as a statistic against all of us.

As I mentioned before, there is uncollected data involving negligent discharges and those who conceal and open carry.It is uncollected because it is often not reported. This is a slippery slope trying to justify Open Carry by vilifying hunting as being "less safe"......

 

[Brass Magnet]

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Maybe Hugh was talking about planning on shooting more than once for more than one deer? I know if I see a group of them walk in front of me I've got enough tags and plan on having enoughammo to take them all.(no scrubby little bucks for me though)

I agree that you don't go hunting to miss, and I've shot so many deer I've lost count, with not much more amunition than there weredeer but come on guys.

You're really stretching to say that hunting isn't statistically more dangerous than OC'ing for defense. Even if you discount the fact that hiding from game generally is the same as hiding from other hunters you can't discount the fact that shooting your gun is inherently more dangerous than not shooting it. Unless all youguys are beating the game over the head with your rifle stocks you do plan on shooting don't you? I wear my gun around my property all the time but I don't plan on having to use it.

I really can't believe you guysjumped on this one....

Figure in heart-attacks and people falling out of tree stands and it isn't even close....

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

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Brass Magnet wrote:

I really can't believe you guysjumped on this one....

I am jumping on the fact that it is a bad comparison to use, especially if you are talking with a gun grabber. Do not inadvertently bash hunting in the defense of Open Carry. We do not want to go down that road.

 

[J.Gleason]

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So exactly how many cases of gun grabbing have been recorded?

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

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J.Gleason wrote:

So exactly how many cases of gun grabbing have been recorded?

Gun Grabber is reference to anti-gun politicians.

 

[hugh jarmis]

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not inadvertently bash hunting in the defense of Open Carry. We do not want to go down that road.

I am not bashing hunting. I am a hunter.

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of "iliketohunt" in his assertion that while he participates in a sport that is far more dangerous than OC'ing, he calls OC dangerous.

This is not a condemnation of hunting, as almost everything we do in life has some danger. Driving on the road with other vehicles is extremely dangerous. Hell, walking around Milwaukee is dangerous. I do not discourage either activity.

 

[rcawdor57]

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:exclaim: Wow! The troll hit us hard with his B.S. and hasn't been back in awhile. I just read through three pages of posts and I find them invigorating! I worked with a fellow like "ILIKETOHUNT" many years ago when I was stationed in Charleston, S.C. at the naval base. I think he wasn't a "hunter" though and he was always spouting off that people should not have guns and should not be able to protect themselves. Me and my shipmates never understood his train of thought. Never. This guy once told us that he would not stop an attack on his own wife and infant child or himself in his own home and would allow anything and everything to happen to them including rape and death. None of us could understand this guy and I finally realized that some people in this world are "Just Not Right" in the mental department. It wasn't long after he told us that that he told the captain of our ship that he would "trip off the electric plant" if we ever were to launch any weapons at an enemy. This guy was an electric plant operator of the sub I was on and yes, if he "tripped off the electric plant" then all AC power is lost and all the ship's control, weapons, environmental, etc...systems are shut down. This statement did not sit well with the captain who had him removed physically from our sub immediately. So what I am saying is that people who say those things are a vast danger to themselves and all of those people around them.


Another point I would like to mention is about what he posted about "pulling a gun on anyone" or words to that effect. I HAVE pulled a gun on someone...actually four or five times in my life and have yet had to pull the trigger. When I lived in Florida I had to pull my gun or show it several times to stop a crime. Once I stopped two guys from a home invasion with my Glock 36 and my dog. When I lived in Goose Creek, S.C. I pulled my Glock 17 to prevent a car jacking from a knife wielding idiot. Heck, here in Kenosha THIS YEAR IN MY OWN HOUSE I pulled my shotgun on a young man who had entered my house during the night. The guy wouldn't do a thing I said until I "racked the slide" on my Mossberg 12 gauge. That got his attention. My wife called 911 and guess how long it took the Kenosha police to get to my house? 22 minutes. They apologized for taking so long. Good thing I had everything under control. So yes, there will be times when one's firearm is needed and not used (hopefully) but what if I had NOT had my firearm with me on these occasions? I open carry every day and as I write this my Glock 36 is on my side and my dog is at my feet. Time to get outside and enjoy this beautiful day! :celebrate

 

[Doug Huffman]

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rcawdor57 wrote:

:exclaim: I was stationed in Charleston, S.C. at the naval base. ... It wasn't long after he told us that that he told the captain of our ship that he would "trip off the electric plant" if we ever were to launch any weapons at an enemy. This guy was an electric plant operator of the sub I was on and yes, if he "tripped off the electric plant" then all AC power is lost. This statement did not sit well with the captain who had him removed physically from our sub immediately.

When I lived in Goose Creek, S.C. I pulled my Glock 17 to prevent a car jacking from a knife wielding idiot.

What year, what boat?

I was at CNS on SSN-660 '71 - 75 as IC electric plant operator and then retired from CNSY, C. 2340 and C.105.6 as Shift Test Engineer in '95. I did a bunch of refueling/overhaul testing Rx start-ups, maybe your boat? "Goose Creek" suggests later. I worked on the engineering of MTS-1 & 2.

 

[rcawdor57]

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My first sub was the U.S.S. Narwhal, SSN 671 in Charleston, S.C. Got to her in the beginning of 1979 when she was in CNS for a refueling overhaul. Stayed on her till mid 1983, went to San Diego for school then back to Charleston Naval Weapons Station on the U.S.S. Woodrow Wilson (3-Mile Wilson). I lived in the naval housing in Goose Creek which was right down the road from either naval base. I was a nub reactor operator and learned a lot on the Narwhal. I was the Refueling Area Watch for removal of about half the core during core removal. My SSW was the C.O. (not a nice guy...my first C.O.). The Narwhal was an exquisite lady and the best sub of my career (7 subs total). The guy with the knife happened at the first traffic light you come to when going from Goose Creek to the naval base in Charleston along that road that runs through the swamp. I don't remember the name of the road(s) but I drove it thousands of times in the years stationed there. This guy came out of the bushes running towards the car while we waited at the traffic light. Pulled the Glock from the console (I believe that was illegal at the time but not sure) and told him "You don't want to do that". He turned and ran back into the bushes. I knew several STE's during my time in the refueling overhaul. One that comes to mind was a retired electrician chief during day shift. He was a riot and we all liked working with him.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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I knew Narwhal well! Even intimately. RO, hat tip.

I enjoyed the break while the SEPM's mention of the 'barn doors' was fixed. I over hauled the RPA panel as nearly single handedly as something like that can be. I learned to make the custom temperature compensating diodes for the RPA power supply.

Wilson was too conventional for me to separate out my memories of her. You remember particularly only the good ones and bad ones. 671 good, 681 bad.

EMCS Tom Lindberg ENCS Dave Menefee (Diesel Dave) both are still alive. Too many aren't. Both were first generation nukes that trained on civilian plants before even S1W

 

[Lammie]

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According to the Wisconsin DNR web site there were 630,855 deer licenses sold in 2008. Mark Burmesch of WDNR Law Enforcement reported to the Conservation Congress on December 19, 2008 that there were 9 gun accidents and 1 gun death during the 2008 deer seasons (.00158%). Why are we even debating this issue?

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Because someone suggested special knowledge of uncollected statistical data on many hunting incidents.

I may add more subsequently. Nawp, pearls before swine.

 

[rcawdor57]

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The Narwhal was (in my opinion) the best designed submarine ever. I don't know about Seawolf and whatever the class is after Seawolf but I venture to say that they are too technically advanced and will not fare well in actual combat. There were so many good engineering ideas actually working well in the Narwhal that I thought every submarine should be like her. No reduction gears, Bingo! No forced oil systems for lubrication, Bingo! RCP's not needed to operate the reactor plant, Bingo! No MSW pumps needed (in cool waters) for steam plant operation, Bingo! No R114 plants for air conditioning, Bingo! Heck, I remember during sound trials that no one could hear us AT ALL unless we started and ran one piece of equipment that emitted tonals into the water. That submarine was a dream boat and had the best written reactor plant and steam plant manuals in existence during it's lifetime. So many memories.....the places we went and the things we did. And people thought the Cold War was over....right.

 

[AaronS]

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rcawdor57 wrote:

The Narwhal was (in my opinion) the best designed submarine ever. I don't know about Seawolf and whatever the class is after Seawolf but I venture to say that they are too technically advanced and will not fare well in actual combat. There were so many good engineering ideas actually working well in the Narwhal that I thought every submarine should be like her. No reduction gears, Bingo! No forced oil systems for lubrication, Bingo! RCP's not needed to operate the reactor plant, Bingo! No MSW pumps needed (in cool waters) for steam plant operation, Bingo! No R114 plants for air conditioning, Bingo! Heck, I remember during sound trials that no one could hear us AT ALL unless we started and ran one piece of equipment that emitted tonals into the water. That submarine was a dream boat and had the best written reactor plant and steam plant manuals in existence during it's lifetime. So many memories.....the places we went and the things we did. And people thought the Cold War was over....right.

I know just what you are talking about. With that big a$$ horn, I think the Narwhal is one bad a$$ mo-fo. For real, look at that! It has a horn like a sward. Made just right to skewer you. Bad a$$ fish if you ask me:lol:. Wish I could carry one of them on my hip...