Is it better to have a cheap riffle rather than none?

[Interceptor_Knight]

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Gunslinger wrote:

AKs are rock solid and deadly at ranges out to 100m. Beyond that, I'll take a .44 magnum. But how often would you go beyone that for accuracy? You can get $600 ARs, however. Stag makes one that just needs a sighting system; Doublestar is close to that price, also. Check out Buds.

I've shot the AK and M-16 in full auto and vastly prefer the M-16. It is a real rifle round whereas the AK is kind of a hybrid round--true definition of "assault rifle." Spray and pray for illiterate 3rd world export has made the Kalashnikov the most produced rifle in the world. In the hands of guys who know what they're doing, it is deadly. The M-16, or its civvie variant, is deadly in the hands of people who don't know what they're doing. I guess I would call that the biggest difference.

The AK can make accurate easy kills out to 300M+. It is just as much a rifle round as the .223 is. It can be argued that the 7.62x39 is more suited to killing medium sized game than the .223 varmint round (disclaimer: I am confident in the 5.56x45/.223's ability to kill humans and I have taken deer with it). Would you argue that the .30-30 is a "hybrid" round and only suitable for an "assault" rifle?

 

[bigdaddy1]

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I seriously doubt that I will be looking for any long range targets. I want something fun to hit the range with, maybe get some game and that I dont have to tinker with.

A buddy of mine had an AK with a very long barrel, high power scope and said it was a Russian sniper riffle.
This was several years ago, before the Obamadays of gun prices. He said he paid nearly $1200.00 for it then. I suppose if you can afford it you can plunk enough money into anything to gain accuracy. Again I am looking more for a target blaster at 100 or so yards (most ranges) and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

 

[hp-hobo]

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An AK with a long barrel and a scope sounds an awfullot like a PSL. Centerfire has them right now for $450 without scopes and AIM has them for $580 with scopes. Purchase price is low as is maintanance, and 7.62 x 54R ammo is dirt cheap and provides a very satisfying thump when fired.

Sorry, I don't know anything about "riffles".

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/DRA-GUN-B.aspx

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_PSL-54C_7.62x54R_Rifle.html



ETAlinks.

 

[McX]

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[McX]

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[GLOCK21GB]

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hp-hobo wrote:

An AK with a long barrel and a scope sounds an awfullot like a PSL. Centerfire has them right now for $450 without scopes and AIM has them for $580 with scopes. Purchase price is low as is maintanance, and 7.62 x 54R ammo is dirt cheap and provides a very satisfying thump when fired.

Sorry, I don't know anything about "riffles".

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/DRA-GUN-B.aspx

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_PSL-54C_7.62x54R_Rifle.html



ETAlinks.

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

 

[bigdaddy1]

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Been a few years, but those look like what I remember.

I assume those would be somewhat accurate?

 

[ABNinfantryman]

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:

3-MOA is not acceptable to me and I don't believe in "good enough." You can get the same reliability of an AK with a bigger more accurate round and riflingwith an FN-FAL. I would take an FNAR over an AK or even a Springfield M1A SOCOMII before an AK. So if I find any Chinese AKs I'll let you know.

If you were really a DM, a 3MOArifle would have gotten the job done. For practical purposes, that is only 1.5MOA in any particular direction away from point of aim. If you have 3MOA+ of flinch, you can't do your job no matter how accurate your rifle is. That is the equivalent of 6MOA. of (in)accuracy...

Maybe you have never heard of Carlos Hathcock.... He started out his professional career of sniping with a 2MOA accurate rifle.....:dude:

Again, yes, it can "get the job done," that's not acceptable to me, but that's just how I am. I would never use an AK as a DM rifle regardless because of the lack of distance. Even if I don't need it, I want it, and if I can afford it I'm gonna get it. As to the flinch, I wasn't speaking on behalf of myself, I was speaking to the average soldier who flinches, a lot, when AKs, PKMs, and RPGs start firing their way. Also don't forget your MOA gets larger as you shoot further out, so a rifle that's 3 MOA at 100M is going to shoot at5 MOA at 300M and so on for every 100M. Do we want to get into humidity, wind, the Coriolis effect? The point is, you're talking about defending you and your family, do you want to rely on "good enough?"

Anyone here read "American Rifle?" This is the exact same argument that's been going on in the US military since our nation's founding.

 

[ABNinfantryman]

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Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

 

[Evil Ernie]

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Ok. Lets get real here. Sub-MOA don't mean squat when you're getting hammered by direct and indirect fire. Combat isn't the ole range back home. I'd like to see those AR fans do tactical leapfrogs across a 100 meter field of dirt, mud, weeds, pebbles, and see how fast that AR locks up.

My M-16 was fantastic on the range. One would have to try to miss at 300m it was that accurate. Buuuut, one little ole grain of sand and that weapon would jam up harder than a Mosin Nagant shooting laquer cased bubblegum.

I loved my M16A2 on the range, but that Ft Benning dust would jam that pig everytime when we went to the field.

AK's aren't pretty, but they'll get the job done and then some.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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ABNinfantryman wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

I worked at a gun store, I know the difference. But it is a very close copy.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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ABNinfantryman wrote:

...SNIP

Also don't forget your MOA gets larger as you shoot further out, so a rifle that's 3 MOA at 100M is going to shoot at 5 MOA at 300M and so on for every 100M.
SNIP...

Holly C...!:banghead:

Please tell me you did not actually say this. Minutes of Angle (MOA) is just that, a measure of degrees of arc on a circle. It is a basic measurement system and it is constant. At 100 yards 1 MOA is nominally 1 inch. While it is obvious that the actual linear distance represented by 1 MOA will change as you move closer or farther from the shooter, the angle or MOA itself is a constant. So while it is true that 1 MOA at 300 yards will represent a greater distance, than it would at 100 yards, it is still only 1 MOA. Moving farther from the target does not increase the number of degrees in a circle (360) described as a certain distance from the shooter.

Regards

 

[Armond Reese]

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Glock34 wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

I worked at a gun store, I know the difference. But it is a very close copy.

Clearly, you don't.

And "I worked at a gun store" just means you're likely to spew a lot of inaccuracies.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Armond Reese wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

I worked at a gun store, I know the difference. But it is a very close copy.

Clearly, you don't.

And "I worked at a gun store" just means you're likely to spew a lot of inaccuracies

Wow, for a 23 year old snot nosed student you are correct, you win a cookie.. I don't work at a gun store, But I DID at one time ...you clearly can't read as I said, I WORKED AT A GUN STORE, AS IN PAST TENSE ! and I would rather take advise from some that has worked around them, selling them, owning them, reading up about them, so as to be educated when I had to sell them.

Also I have been around guns, shooting them, for about 30 years now, Yup I fired my first firearms 7 years before you were conceived in the house of ill repute, so PLEASE don't even think you know more about guns that I.:lol:

And, Mr. Reese. you do not know me, so what gives you the impression I will allow you to insult me & my knowledge about firearms ?! I am not a know it all, just like NO ONE HERE IS. so why don't you keep your HOLE shut , when speaking / spewing about someone that you do not know anything about. Got it ! Why do these forums attract punk azzed moron trolls ?....

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Armond Reese wrote:

AKs are awesome, ARs are picky pieces of @#$%

AK'S are Awesome..it say's on your profile your a student and that's the most educated thing you can come up with ??? This is clearing coming from a person who has limited to no expirence with the AR platform. Keep it cleaned / lubed and few to no problems will be had.

 

[Armond Reese]

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Glock34 wrote:

Armond Reese wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

I worked at a gun store, I know the difference. But it is a very close copy.

Clearly, you don't.

And "I worked at a gun store" just means you're likely to spew a lot of inaccuracies

Wow, for a 23 year old snot nosed student you are correct, you win a cookie.. I don't work at a gun store, But I DID at one time ...you clearly can't read as I said, I WORKED AT A GUN STORE, AS IN PAST TENSE ! and I would rather take advise from some that has worked around them, selling them, owning them, reading up about them, so as to be educated when I had to sell them.

Also I have been around guns, shooting them, for about 30 years now, Yup I fired my first firearms 7 years before you were conceived in the house of ill repute, so PLEASE don't even think you know more about guns that I.:lol:

And, Mr. Reese. you do not know me, so what gives you the impression I will allow you to insult me & my knowledge about firearms ?! I am not a know it all, just like NO ONE HERE IS. so why don't you keep your HOLE shut , when speaking / spewing about someone that you do not know anything about. Got it ! Why do these forums attract punk azzed moron trolls ?....

You spew stupid. Get corrected on stupid. Tell person you knew in the first place. Get told you didn't. Spew more stupid.

Tell me, did your parents have any kids that lived?

 

[McX]

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[hp-hobo]

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McX wrote:

So we decided to recommend the AK or it's variant?

You mean we're actually going to get back on topic instead of acting like 10 year olds having a nut swinging contest? :quirky

My son was looking for a rifle that met the same basic criteria... Inexpensive to purchase and feed, dependable, fun at the range and accurate enough if the SHTF.

This is a Saiga AK style carbine chambered in 5.45x39 available from Classic Arms for $340. Ammo costs about $250 for 2160 rounds and is readily available. Dead dependable, very accurate and fun to shoot.AK-74 magazines fit right in so you have an easy 30-round capacity. That'd be my recommendation, and that's what I got him.

Disclaimer; I have never carried one of these in combat, I am not a sniper nor have I ever worked at a gun shop. I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

P.S. Merry Christmas kid.

 

[McX]

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[GLOCK21GB]

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Armond Reese wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Armond Reese wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

Dragunov , COM BLOC sniper rifle, nice.

No, those were Romanian PSLs, there's a difference even though they look similar, the first clue is the stock. You can tell it's the Romanian variant because of the mag, it has an X on it instead of a waffle pattern like the Russian variant.

I worked at a gun store, I know the difference. But it is a very close copy.

Clearly, you don't.

And "I worked at a gun store" just means you're likely to spew a lot of inaccuracies

Wow, for a 23 year old snot nosed student you are correct, you win a cookie.. I don't work at a gun store, But I DID at one time ...you clearly can't read as I said, I WORKED AT A GUN STORE, AS IN PAST TENSE ! and I would rather take advise from some that has worked around them, selling them, owning them, reading up about them, so as to be educated when I had to sell them.

Also I have been around guns, shooting them, for about 30 years now, Yup I fired my first firearms 7 years before you were conceived in the house of ill repute, so PLEASE don't even think you know more about guns that I.:lol:

And, Mr. Reese. you do not know me, so what gives you the impression I will allow you to insult me & my knowledge about firearms ?! I am not a know it all, just like NO ONE HERE IS. so why don't you keep your HOLE shut , when speaking / spewing about someone that you do not know anything about. Got it ! Why do these forums attract punk azzed moron trolls ?....

You spew stupid. Get corrected on stupid. Tell person you knew in the first place. Get told you didn't. Spew more stupid.

Tell me, did your parents have any kids that lived?

this explains everything. Your what 13 years old ? :lol: go sit in the corner.