Just Did The "Default Walk"

[JeepSeller]

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OneInThePipe wrote:

So if this is so basic and legal then why won't you answer my question or take up the challenge I laid down?

Take your default license and walk up to the first LEO you find. Show him your license and your concealed firearm.

I do agree with the poster though. If you truly believe you are right in issuing yourself a permit in lieu of the State of Florida, then, you've got nothing to lose..stand up for your rights my good man! Isn't that what you've been preaching all along?

 

[JeepSeller]

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OneInThePipe wrote:

So if this is so basic and legal then why won't you answer my question or take up the challenge I laid down?

Take your default license and walk up to the first LEO you find. Show him your license and your concealed firearm.

double post. sorry

 

[smoking357]

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JeepSeller wrote:

I'm telling you, he won't, no, he can't do it. He knows as well as we all do what the outcome would be. Not only would it land him in jail, but, it would prove him wrong once and for all,

I see you hate everything about America. In America, the cops' action isn't "proof" of anything. It's sad that Americans have turned their backs on the Constitution.

Are you so unerudite that you do not know the branches of government and their function?

Your proposed lowbrow attention-grabbing stunt flows from a lowest-common-denominator worldview.

Further, I see you're a hypocrite. After your protestation regarding a dearth of citation, I gave you some fleshy caselaw to chew on, and it is you who responds with vapidity and insult.

 

[glock4me]

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JeepSeller wrote:

OneInThePipe wrote:

So if this is so basic and legal then why won't you answer my question or take up the challenge I laid down?

Take your default license and walk up to the first LEO you find. Show him your license and your concealed firearm.

I'm telling you, he won't, no, he can't do it. He knows as well as we all do what the outcome would be. Not only would it land him in jail, but, it would prove him wrong once and for all, and he's not about to do that.

He's going to sit on this until he gets his permit in the mail making this whole thing a moot point.

Weak.

He claims to be a lawyer? I wonder if there is a way to find out who he really is and then contact the bar and let them see what he is telling people to do. I would imagine the bar would not be happy aboutan attorney trying to mislead people like he does. Maybe he was kicked out of law school because of his attitude. Who knows

 

[JeepSeller]

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I knew you can't or won't do it. You're too cowardly to even respond to the challenge.

Furthermore, do you live in such a small little world that you can't even see reality anymore? How is it even possible that you can even pretend to have a speck of intelligence, yet, take a comment by someone who opposes your arguments and try to lump them into "hating everything American"?! I never said anything of the sort. And, I'll reiterateone thing I said before, just in case you weren't paying attention.Turning to insults or slander is the crutch of someone who has nothing left to argue with.

You really do live in your own little world don't you.

I see that intelligent conversation and/or debate is impossible with you. You cannot see any reason. You cannot acknowlage any differing opinons. It's no wonder you've been canned from at least one forum!

You don't discuss, you argue and insult. Again, the sign of a weak mind and a worthless argument.

I said it once before, and I let you suck me in again. I'm done with you. You're not worth the time anymore.

I'm just glad that there are enough of us to keep chasing your posts letting folks know NOT to follow your advice.Between your ill guided views on the law and your blatantlyoffensiveviews regarding LawEnforcement,you're dangerous. You're going to get someone hurt or worse one day.

 

[glock4me]

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I could not have said it better myself JeepSeller

 

[smoking357]

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Glock23-4-Me wrote:

JeepSeller wrote:

OneInThePipe wrote:

So if this is so basic and legal then why won't you answer my question or take up the challenge I laid down?

Take your default license and walk up to the first LEO you find. Show him your license and your concealed firearm.

I'm telling you, he won't, no, he can't do it. He knows as well as we all do what the outcome would be. Not only would it land him in jail, but, it would prove him wrong once and for all, and he's not about to do that.

He's going to sit on this until he gets his permit in the mail making this whole thing a moot point.

Weak.

He claims to be a lawyer? I wonder if there is a way to find out who he really is and then contact the bar and let them see what he is telling people to do. I would imagine the bar would not be happy aboutan attorney trying to mislead people like he does. Maybe he was kicked out of law school because of his attitude. Who knows

You little crybaby. Are you capable of going through life without someone to tattle to? Are you capable of fighting your own fights, or do you need someone to hide behind? Do you really think that government agencies are just waiting around to settle your pathetic internet grudges? Grow up, Sir. Comment on the law is the most essential and fundamental speech under the First Amendment.

Further, I'm not telling anyone to do anything.

Here's what I posted on this Board on the subject:

"Now, here’s the difficult part. Let’s say you have filed your default letter, and you start carrying. Let’s say further that a cop stops you for Acting as a Freeman (a first-degree felony in the Bible Belt) and demands your papers. You whip out a copy of your letter to DOACS, and the thug in a costume laughs at it like the dimwit he is, arrests you and takes you to jail. See, people who wear costumed power are only impressed by costumed rights, i.e., the CCW Permit. Because of the letter, your attorney has a darn good “affirmative defense,” but these are only as good as the judge, and most judges are outright liars, substituting their own desires and worldviews for the law. A great many of them take orders from connected or powerful people, and you may be convicted in the clubhouse as the judge’s foursome is getting ready for the first tee.

Worse, Floridians have little love for freedom, and they make horrible jury members. Floridian juries believe that the judge is the source of the law and is to be believed regarding the law. Gun owners believe no such fairy tales and know that juries sit in judgment of the law, the facts, the judge, the cops, and the entire system. Know that many gun owners are born authoritarians and would love to see you buckle under the State’s lashes. Many gun owners, particularly those East of the Missouri, despise individuality and autonomy and loathe anyone who attempts to lighten his pack, claim his freedom or not act beholden to the will of another.

If you carry on a default license, there is a chance, perhaps a high one, that you’ll be convicted and serve time in prison. You’ll be absolutely right under the law, but our jails have thousands of innocent people in them. Prosecutors care only about winning, and never about right and wrong, legal or illegal. Anyone who thinks America doesn’t have political prisoners is naïve and sheltered. Think long and hard before carrying on a default license.

In the end, your rights are clear and definable. Whether you can actually access your rights in America is less clear. Insisting on freedom and governmental accountability in America is a dangerous business.

Disclaimer to placate any brownshirts who might be peering in: The above is a complete work of fiction and should not be believed by anyone, ever. While Police are entitled to blather about the law, I fully admit that citizens have no right to free speech, free discussion and free opinion regarding the law. The law is not for citizen reading or comment. The law is to be handed to us, and we are duty bound to obey it, without question. I am not admitted to the Florida Bar; these ideas are not offered pursuant to any representation, and you are, in no way, my client. If you want to know the state of the law, contact an attorney licensed in Florida."

 

[OneInThePipe]

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http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/tree/browse_frm/month/1999-07/3bc40c17bdf3e484?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fnews.announce.newgroups%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1999-07%3F

 

[smoking357]

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JeepSeller wrote:

Between your ill guided views on the law and your blatantlyoffensiveviews regarding LawEnforcement,you're dangerous. You're going to get someone hurt or worse one day.

You read it here, folks. "Views" are dangerous.

We Americans really only pay lip service to our Bill of Rights. We're all too eager to restrict Liberty when we don't like its application.

 

[acrimsontide]

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If all of us, myself included, would ignore this guy and his advice, maybe he would go away. Obviously he doesn't truly believe what he is spouting OR his is just an internet commando mouthing off about this subject. He complains about others "not standing up for their rights' and being un American, but seemingly lacks the fortitude to openly carry in front of a LEO so he can "stand up for HIS own rights". As someone said earlier, he knows what would happen and that he would be arrested so he will not do it. I would bet some of the LEOs that read this board are licking their chops hoping they will be the one that gets to cuff this guy. If he is arrested, I hope he has the intelligence to hire himself a lawyer to represent him as his own logic and attitude will probably not win him many friends in the judicial system. I think of Brad Paisley's country song "ONLINE" when I read this guy's posts.

 

[smoking357]

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acrimsontide wrote:

I would bet some of the LEOs that read this board are licking their chops hoping they will be the one that gets to cuff this guy.

I agree.

Thank you for proving another point for me.

 

[glock4me]

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Brian P. Sweeney

is this you???

how about this. Is this you



http://www.brianpsweeney.com/firearms.html

 

[acrimsontide]

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smoking357 wrote:

acrimsontide wrote:

I would bet some of the LEOs that read this board are licking their chops hoping they will be the one that gets to cuff this guy.

I agree.

Thank you for proving another point for me.

And if you are breaking the law, why shouldn't they want to arrest you?

By the way, you continually talk about open carry but the main thrust of your argument is about a default Concealed Weapon Permit. Go ahead and play Internet Commando since you obviously have no intention of really putting your "default license" or your theory to a real test.

 

[glock4me]

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this guy is absolutely rediculous

 

[Gunslinger]

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smoking357 wrote:

JeepSeller wrote:

I'm afraid I didn't see your name on this forum, so, I'm not sure how you contend you are in any postion to dictate who can and cannot "proceed" in this forum.

However, that being said, and that I'm not afraid myself to answer some simple questions,..

I, personally,do not have any problems carrying concealed, I enjoy the "suprise" element, and I've had no problems with any draw issues.Yet, I also completelysupport anyone's right to carry openly if that is what they wanted.Currently, Florida does not allow for that though, so, we're stuck with CC for the moment. Live with it or work to change it.

I say, instead of spending so much time and energy bashing on other forums and brother gun advocates, and preaching misguided theories about "self issued" liscenses.... Why not put all that energy into working together and getting the laws changed.

You'll never change laws by breaking them you know. In the end, the only thing you're doing is bringing the wrong kind of attention to our cause.

Your ilk has "brought the wrong kind of attention to our cause." In fact, nobody else cares. It's only you and yours engaging in histrionics against this exercise of our rights.

This forum exists is to bring about open carry in Florida, and that "other board" is openly hostile to open carry, mocking open carry and the other posters here.

Seriously, get with the program. It inures to our benefit to have default licenses be legal. I have never seen gun owners work so hard against their own interests or to conceive every imaginable argument against their rights. The scorn that was poured on myself and this legal maneuver was deplorable. So some smart guy figured out how to apply the law in favor of gun owners? Rejoice! Gun owners, everywhere, should be thrilled by, or at least not hostile to, this tactic.

Given the derision I've seen on such a simple matter as a default license, the gun owners in Florida are far too weak and internecine to mount a successful campaign to restore open carry.

P.S., "Bubby" is not "Bubba." Your fellow travelers were confused on that.

There is no such thing as a "default license" you 'issue yourself.' While you have a right to your fantasy, if your post isn't unmittigated bs, do as other posters have suggested: test it with a cop. Once you post bail, you can then write about your experience. You seem to have a hard time separating wishful thinking from legality.

 

[JeepSeller]

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I know I've said a couple of times that I was done with this guy, but, I'm also torn by the feeling that we, as LAW ABIDING, conscientious firearm enthusiasts, have a duty to protect our way of life and allowing this nutcase to continue to spill his ilk goes against every grain in my body.

I believe we have a duty to make sure that NO ONE follows his misguided fantasies.

Oddly enough, it occurred to me that he's awfully quick to accuse anyone who disagrees with his way of thinking as being un American, yet, he's expressed on many occasions his completedisdain for Law Enforcement, Judges, and government in general.

I wonder who the REAL anti-American here is..

Listen pal, if you really hate this country and it's systems so much, why don't you go find somewhere else to live. Your lack of patriotism is disturbing. You obviously don't take your 2A rights seriously. You're only goal is to create conflict. Some of us have done some searching. I myself have founda handful of forums you've visited and you end up getting in trouble with your attitudein each and every one of them. Have you ever thought the problem might be with YOU?

An intelligent person would have figured this out by now. I guess we all know what a fraud you are now.

Thanks for playing. :lol:

 

[smoking357]

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Gunslinger wrote:

You seem to have a hard time separating wishful thinking from legality.

When you pass a few more college classes, you'll learn that what the cops think is far from necessarily being the law.

You Liberals are so disappointing. From what low ranks do you hail that you
seek validation from the government? What socialistic place has formed you into a person who asks the government's permission prior to action and seeks the state's approval for your conduct? Pro-authoritariansim and anti-individual is as Leftists as it gets.

Your worldview is anathema to Americanism. Stop being a Commie.

Anyway, good thing I'm "official" after issuing myself my license.

 

[smoking357]

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JeepSeller wrote:

I know I've said a couple of times that I was done with this guy, but, I'm also torn by the feeling that we, as LAW ABIDING, conscientious firearm enthusiasts, have a duty to protect our way of life and allowing this nutcase to continue to spill his ilk goes against every grain in my body.

I believe we have a duty to make sure that NO ONE follows his misguided fantasies.

Oddly enough, it occurred to me that he's awfully quick to accuse anyone who disagrees with his way of thinking as being un American, yet, he's expressed on many occasions his completedisdain for Law Enforcement, Judges, and government in general.

I wonder who the REAL anti-American here is..

Listen pal, if you really hate this country and it's systems so much, why don't you go find somewhere else to live. Your lack of patriotism is disturbing. You obviously don't take your 2A rights seriously. You're only goal is to create conflict. Some of us have done some searching. I myself have founda handful of forums you've visited and you end up getting in trouble with your attitudein each and every one of them. Have you ever thought the problem might be with YOU?

An intelligent person would have figured this out by now. I guess we all know what a fraud you are now.

Thanks for playing. :lol:

Weren't you recently lamenting that this discussion had descended into insult?

Banish your hypocrisy, and make a compelling legal argument, instead of that vomit of hate that you think passes for an argument.

Your argument is reducible to this: suppression of the self / authoritarianism / unthinking obedience = law abiding, while Libertarianism / intelligence / gun rights advocacy = crazy. Your ideology is more at home in Communist China than America. Patrick Henry would have kicked you in your rear.

Further, the greatest advancement and preservation of Liberty, today, is found in beating back the frontiers of police power. Equating respect for police power with Americanism is foreign to our beliefs and is the highway to tyranny. America has more people in jail than all other countries in the world, combined. In their daily intercourse, Americans are far from the freest people in the world (Fascists, insert "just move there" here).

It's ironic that gun owners have a notable bloc of anti-freedom authoritarians who kowtow to and respect the state's power. Ideologically, this bloc has few differences with Obama and avowed Leftists, but they think themselves bitter enemies with their kindred spirits. Hitler hated Stalinists while admitting that Communists would make good National Socialists. If taken to their logical end, the authoritarian gun bloc has no logical disagreement with the outlawing and confiscation of guns.

You're more of an enemy than a friend to gun owners. You need to read some Rand, Bastiat, Rothbard and Paul to get your head screwed on straight.

By the way, here's what Jefferson said about "law abiding": "I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual"

I ask you these questions: Can the State ever be defaulted on a firearm license? if the State refused to issue licenses, what would be your recourse? If an anti-gun Governor and head of DOACS agreed to stop issuing licenses, would you support those who considered themselves default approved and fit to carry arms?

Just how deep does your authoritarianism go?

 

[JeepSeller]

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I rest my case. This nutcase won't even respond to valid arguments or challenges. All he wants to do is spill whatever garb he's plagiarizingand continue to spout his anti-American rhetoric.

Dude, haven'tyounoticed a significant void of anyone actually BACKING you up? Wonder why that is. Are you the only TRUE American in all the forums you've been?I guess, by you logic, everyone here on this forum is not a TRUEAmerican, right? They're not agreeing with you, that makesthem un-American accordingto you..right? My guess is that you are all alone inyourbeliefs and there must be some flaw in your theoriesfor NO ONE to back you...even among SEVERAL forums..Again, an intelligent person would have figured this out by now.

As I say, you are a fraud who's only goal is to stimulate conflict and reaction.

We've all seen he's a fraud. His rhetoricno longer has any bite to it. Several people have debunked his misguided theories. We've done our job here.

Again, thanks for playing.I've actually enjoyed it.

 

[OneInThePipe]

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JeepSeller wrote:

I rest my case. This nutcase won't even respond to valid arguments or challenges. All he wants to do is spill whatever garb he's plagiarizingand continue to spout his anti-American rhetoric.

Dude, haven'tyounoticed a significant void of anyone actually BACKING you up? Wonder why that is. Are you the only TRUE American in all the forums you've been?I guess, by you logic, everyone here on this forum is not a TRUEAmerican, right? They're not agreeing with you, that makesthem un-American accordingto you..right? My guess is that you are all alone inyourbeliefs and there must be some flaw in your theoriesfor NO ONE to back you...even among SEVERAL forums..Again, an intelligent person would have figured this out by now.

As I say, you are a fraud who's only goal is to stimulate conflict and reaction.

We've all seen he's a fraud. His rhetoricno longer has any bite to it. Several people have debunked his misguided theories. We've done our job here.

Again, thanks for playing.I've actually enjoyed it.

I think it is time for the moderators to step in and ban this nutcase.

His arguments I can handle but His insistence on doing something illegal and encouraging others to commit illegal acts if something we can do without. It is tough enough to get our views across to the general public without encouraging something that is illegal.

I realize that in Florida OC is illegal and that is what this site is about. But I see people expressing their opinions and working to change the laws. Not break the law as smoking357 is advocating.