Kentucky Fish and Wildlife New Carry Regulations

[boomer92266]

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i contacted my senator, and representative haven't heard back yet, but its only been a few days. but i got some bad news from all this. i love to rabbit hunt and have three dogs, but one is old at 10 yrs. so i take him by his self so he can take his time and no other young dogs can rush him. i called the dept again and asked if i could open carry my handgun while out with my dog?, they said only with a permit cause it wasn't hunting season. i told them i was just running my dog not hunting, they said i could run my dog but could not carry a gun with it not in season without a permit. well i left my gun home and about 15min. of running two pit bulls attacked my dog, i went to help him and they turned on me, i had to leave him and go to my house and get my gun. when i got back the dogs were gone and my dog layed in a pool of blood, i rushed him to the vet and they sewed him up. the vet said with his age its 50/50 i had to leave him there, the hardest thing i ever had to do. i was upset the other day with the dept. for trying to take my right to carry away, but now i'm really p***ed, their not responsable for the attack, but are responsable for the attack to go on for a good 10min,cause if i had been carrying my dog would be ok now, and not fighting for his life.

 

[Thos.Jefferson]

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Why in the world would you call to ask permission to excercise a right protected under the Constitution? I am sorry to hear about your dog but you must admit you brought this on your-self. Even if you had been happened upon by a game warden you weren't breaking any laws. It would have never even dawned on me to call and ask if it were ok to carry my defense weapon.

 

[Boolitsmith]

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Sorry about your dog.I carry at all times just because things like this happen.I don't see any way at all that they can keep any one from carrying when they are just out walking their dog.Thats really all you were doing.Whoever you talked to doesn't have a clue.I say we all carry when we are out and about.If some idiot wants to question our rights then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[boomer92266]

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i got a reply this morning from my representative in my email this morning, this is what it said: I will talk privately with Commissioner Gasset of the KDFW about that
very issue. I agree with you and think that is our right to carry that
gun. If they won't budge on that issue, Frog Ford gives those concealed
carry classes in T-ville all the time. I am fixing to take one so I can
get my concealed carry permit. But I will try to get that exemption for
you. The only problem is they are very independent, and they don't have
to do anything we (General Assembly) request.

Jamie Comer




after i got this i called the number they have and talked with a live person. they said that the k.d.f.w. can not stop me from open carry as it is protected, however if i go hunting with my 22 for small game they will try and regulate that all firearms on me be legal for small game whether i'm hunting with all them or not. but if i'm just out in the woods they can't stop me from open carry, they went on to say that if i took my 357 for protection, and my 22 for small game and got cited for it, in court it would probably would be thrown out as the right to carry is protected.

 

[boomer92266]

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i wanted to update the condition of my dog, the vet called said he will recover. but he will probably never run again the pitt bulls tore alot of meat out of his leg and there is nerve and tissue damage. i will not ever leave my house again with out my gun, i know its my fault and will have to live with that every time i look at my dog. i guess i thought it can't happen to me, but it did now i will carry every where its legal. i know now you never know when you might need a gun, i guess the old saying is right. its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

 

[boomer92266]

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well i got bad news, by the time i left the house till i got to the vet my dog passed away. the vet said he was standing and all at once layed down and passed. the owners of the pitt bulls have'nt tied them or put them in the pen, i spoke with the owner he said he was sorry but he did not beleive in tying or penning a dog. so anything and everyone could be in danger if something ain't done. i know i'm gonna pack my pistol anytime i take my other dogs out and if this happens again, i'll stop them myself.

 

[langzaiguy]

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So sorry, Boomer--that really sucks. Where exactly did this take place? Can you press charges? Definitely showing some restraint--I'm sure you'd like to show that guy what's it's like to loose a good dog.

 

[Cranky]

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hotrod wrote:

rescue743 wrote:

Ok if that is the case how can they control what types of guns are on the water ie lakes. They told me on Lake Cumberland that i could not have a pistol that fired a solid round. How is that so? Thats from a Fish and wildlife officer

Firearms are not prohibited from Lake Cumberland. The only place that a weapon is prohibited is the dam and other buildings owned or controlled by Corps of Engineers. I carry at Cumberland every weekend I am there and that is usually about 45 out of 52 weeks.

I've always understood that all of Lake Cumberland is C.O.E. property and except for transport while hunting, firearms of any type and carry are prohibited anywhere on the lake.
http://lakecumberland.com/userguide.php?weapons

I'm curious as to your source on the restrictions as you know them (the dam and other C.O.E. buildings).

Of course I'd like to believe that the law as you know it is the correct version, but I know that KDFW officers and other LEO's around the lake don't understand the federal law as such.

Thanks.

 

[hotrod]

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Cranky wrote:

hotrod wrote:

rescue743 wrote:

Ok if that is the case how can they control what types of guns are on the water ie lakes. They told me on Lake Cumberland that i could not have a pistol that fired a solid round. How is that so? Thats from a Fish and wildlife officer

Firearms are not prohibited from Lake Cumberland. The only place that a weapon is prohibited is the dam and other buildings owned or controlled by Corps of Engineers. I carry at Cumberland every weekend I am there and that is usually about 45 out of 52 weeks.

I've always understood that all of Lake Cumberland is C.O.E. property and except for transport while hunting, firearms of any type and carry are prohibited anywhere on the lake.
http://lakecumberland.com/userguide.php?weapons

I'm curious as to your source on the restrictions as you know them (the dam and other C.O.E. buildings).

Of course I'd like to believe that the law as you know it is the correct version, but I know that KDFW officers and other LEO's around the lake don't understand the federal law as such.

Thanks.

There is no law allowing carry on the lake, but, there is no law that says carry is illegal. The only federal law making carry illegal is in the dam and buildings owned by the Corps of Engineers.

 

[Cranky]

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Below is law as written. It's very clear and I'm not sure how it could be interpreted any other way.
Even with this law in place, I believe the majority of boats on this Lake Cumberland are well protected

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 36, Volume 3, Parts 300 to end]
[Revised as of July 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 36CFR327.13]

[Page 11]

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER III--CORPS OF ENGINEERS,
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

PART 327--RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS--Table of Contents

Sec. 327.13  Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile 
firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is 
prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under Sec. 327.8, 
with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting 
and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including
fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission
has been received from the District Commander.

[65 FR 6901, Feb. 11, 2000]

 

[langzaiguy]

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@Cranky: exactly how are these boats well protected?

I think the major question that comes into play is whether the lake is under the jurisdiction of the COE or the parks department. If it is under the COE, it doesn't look like they allow carry for personal protection.

 

[Cranky]

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langzaiguy wrote:

@Cranky: exactly how are these boats well protected?

I think the major question that comes into play is whether the lake is under the jurisdiction of the COE or the parks department. If it is under the COE, it doesn't look like they allow carry for personal protection.

[sup]By "well protected" I meant; many have firearms on board their vessels regardless of the law. When spending the night, deep in a cove in a very remote location, having means to protect one's family and property outweighs the C.O.E. regulation for many people (I agree).

Yes, the lake (water and shoreline) is owned, managed and under the jurisdiction of the COE. The KDFWR does operate on the lake, but the COE (Federal) regulation preempts any firearm [/sup][sup]laws of Commonwealth.[/sup]
[sup]It's unfortunate that this law exists and it’ll probably take a tragic event to challenge it.
[/sup]

 

[langzaiguy]

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Sorry, Cranky, I thought you were implying that everyone can depend on the COE for protection. I see where you're coming from.

Thought I don't really doubt what you're saying about the ownership of the lake is true, is there a place we can find that info listed/cited?

 

[Cranky]

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langzaiguy wrote:

...Thought I don't really doubt what you're saying about the ownership of the lake is true, is there a place we can find that info listed/cited?

I'm not sure where you can find actual documentation as to what properties are owned and managed by the COE - the COE Shoreline Management Plan may make mention of it somewhere.
I know that the COE owns most of the shoreline, but has jurisdiction over all of it as well as the anywhere on the water.

If anyone wants to pursue more info on any of these questions, I would direct them to:

Resource Manager’s Office
Lake Cumberland
855 Boat Dock Road
Somerset, Kentucky 42501
(606) 679-6337

 

[Brian D.]

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Not to paint with too broad a brush, but afew general thoughts on our inland waterways. (I've spent a fair amount of time on some of them.)

Both the Corps of Engineers and U.S. Coast Guard have a certain amount of jurisdiction on the various lakes and rivers. Mostly they would tend to exercise that authority during large emergencies, like say a haz-mat spill orterrorist attack.Neither has a much of a presence on those waterways on any sort of regular basis. You wanna talk about that expression 'When seconds count...' ...in this case it can be finished with... '...help is only a few HOURS away'.

I seldom see the Coast Guard on this part of the Ohio River, not too sure where they keep their vessel(s?) Other than a once a year riverfront fireworks festival or other large-crowd event, I've only seen them once, eating lunch at the waterfront Hooters. They have uniforms, a nice boat, and at times they even carry sidearms. Yet, some of these riverside restaurants have signage posted from the USCG that states something like: 'By boarding this vessel you have obligated yourself to having yourself and your belongings searched, etc., love Uncle Sammy's Coast Guard'. I suppose this actually MEANS something during a catastrophic incident on the river, for the most part I read these signs and chuckle. The day I saw them at Hooters they weren't even trying to frisk the waitresses, much less me.

If the Corps of Engineers has any enforcement folk, that would come asa surprise to me, although I haven't looked at any .gov sites to confirm or deny that thought of mine.

So, an earnestquestion comes to my wee little mind: Who arrests one for violations of COE regulations? Same guys who come and whisk you away for removing those 'Do Not Remove' tags from the bottom of your furniture?

 

[Statesman]

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boomer92266 wrote:

i wanted to update the condition of my dog, the vet called said he will recover. but he will probably never run again the pitt bulls tore alot of meat out of his leg and there is nerve and tissue damage. i will not ever leave my house again with out my gun, i know its my fault and will have to live with that every time i look at my dog. i guess i thought it can't happen to me, but it did now i will carry every where its legal. i know now you never know when you might need a gun, i guess the old saying is right. its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

If I were in your shoes, and I were told that I could not open carry while hunting, I would contact a lawyer to sue the state (and state agency) for emotional distress and violations of a constitutionally protected right.

 

[Cranky]

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Brian D. wrote:

...So, an earnestquestion comes to my wee little mind: Who arrests one for violations of COE regulations? Same guys who come and whisk you away for removing those 'Do Not Remove' tags from the bottom of your furniture?

LOL. I agree Brian - the COE isn't sporting any enforcement teams; at least none that I've ever seen. I know the KDFWR doesn't actively enforce that particular COE regulation as well.

Re: the Coast Guard... your observations are astute. I served in the USCG in NY. I'm sure my duty was somewhat different than that of the river coasties. There are usually good eateries along the water - that's all I'll say about that

Sorry to have strayed a tad off the original topic of this thread.

 

[Brian D.]

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I knew it was thread drift, but sometimes weought to stop and ask ourselves if a law we are worrying about is actually enforced by anyone or for that matter enforceable.

 

[langzaiguy]

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So the question is, if I'm OCing or CCing and I'm justified in using deadly force, could I have charges against me for breaking the firearms ban? If I shoot but don't kill the aggressor, could he file charges against me based on the breaking of the ban?

While it may not be a day to day problem, it seems like this ban could come back to bite us in the rear.

 

[boomer92266]

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i just received a letter from the dept of fish and wildlife, it was in response to me contacting my senater about open carry for protection while squirrel hunting with my 22 rifle. here is the letter as it is written to me.

dear mr. botts: thank you for your recent inquiry regarding our regulations for carrying a firearm for protectionwhile hunting. first, let me say that the k.d.f.w.r. is a strong proponent of the second amendment, and we understand, respect, and support individual ownership of firearms. the dept's lifeblood is made up of the license dollars from hunters as well as federal excise taxes from the sale of firearms and ammo. we reinvest those dollars for the benefit of all ky's sportsman and women in the form of land acquisition, habitat improvement, and wildlife restoration and management. k.d.f.w.r. has been a long-time supporter of ky's concealed carry law. in fact, through recent negotiations with our legislators, our dept. also allows those with a valid concealed carry permit to carry during hunting seasons for purposes of self-defense.

with respect to whether you would be permitted to openly carry your handgun during squirrel season, the regulations for small game would currently allow you to do so (301 kar 2:122). while many of our hunting season regulations, including but not limited to deer, elk, beaver, raccoon, opossum and fox, prohibit the carry of certain firearms without a valid concealed carry permit or the firearm must meet legal hunting equipment, our small game regulations which include squirrel currently have no such restictions. therefore, you may carry a handgun for self defense (with or without a permit) while hunting during this season. however, please remember that the use of certain firearms, including handguns, is never permitted to take an animal during squirrel season or any hunting season that resticts the use of certain weapons.

as for carrying or possessing firearm while you are not hunting, the dept. does not regulate or restrict the open carrying of firearms while you are not hunting. this would be considered outside our current authority. therefore, anytime you are hiking in the woods or walking with your dog, provided you are not hunting, you may openly carry your firearm in any manner consistentwith ky's open carry laws.

sincerely, darin k. moore

adm. serv. director legislative liaison

cc: brad metcalf, office of the senate majority leader

margaret everson, attorney, k.d.f.w.r.

well by the letter it seems i can carry my 357 with me squirrel hunting, and since its center fire i can also carry during deer season.