Killed For Open Carry /// I'm Done

[papa bear]

Hahaha I get it.

PLanB you do know that most of the LEO shootings have been with unarmed people and a couple of CC people

looks like you could be shot no matter what you do

 

[XD40sc]

Anonymity is your friend.

I don't have political or controversial stickers on my vehicles
I don't wear political or controversial clothing (t-shirts or hats)
I don't post political or controversial signs in my yard

I do C.A.N.T. (carry always, never tell)

 

[DrTodd]

Anonymity is your friend.

I don't have political or controversial stickers on my vehicles
I don't wear political or controversial clothing (t-shirts or hats)
I don't post political or controversial signs in my yard

I do C.A.N.T. (carry always, never tell)

Yes...this.

 

[OC for ME]

Hmmm...

Guaranteed he has no INTENTION of shooting you. ...

What do we get if your guarantee fails?

I agree. Like I said there are idiots who point guns at others when its not needed. That's a training issue.

I train guys civilian side and it's Paramount that you dont point guns at people unless you have to. On the other side training is much more lax because its training for worst case scenario....

Uh, the problem is that cops point guns at folks far too often and for far too unreasonable justifications. Even pulling the gun is a lethal threat that is far too often chalked up to a training issue. If the gun is upholstered the likelihood that it will be used goes up. Thus dudes getting their wallet at the behest of a cop get shot cuz a cop is likely to not be held to account for shooting a citizen.

Pointing a gun at somebody without a clear and readily identifiable threat is not a training issue it is a legal issue...well, at least in MO it is. Not following a policy results in possible legal consequences. MA may be different. I have posted these misdemeanor statutes previously in other threads.

 

[Plan B]

Anonymity is your friend.

I don't have political or controversial stickers on my vehicles
I don't wear political or controversial clothing (t-shirts or hats)
I don't post political or controversial signs in my yard

I do C.A.N.T. (carry always, never tell)

Yes...this.

Although philosophically, this makes you as guilty as any anti gunner, I am forced to concede. OC is counterproductive to the furtherance of gun rights, and has, in our new police state, become too dangerous to practice.

 

[J_dazzle23]

Although philosophically, this makes you as guilty as any anti gunner, I am forced to concede. OC is counterproductive to the furtherance of gun rights, and has, in our new police state, become too dangerous to practice.

Do you think there are more criminals in uniform than criminals in everyday clothes?

 

[Bailenforcer]

The only known murder with a legal NFA weapon was also done by a cop who murdered a witness to a crime.. Even ice cream men can be criminals.. I agree.. The cops didn't use lawful force and should be prosecuted, we don't see and shoot and investigate later, this is unacceptable. Never will I give up my right to carry openly or concealed.

sigh While I do certainly believe cops can and do commit crimes I don't think one should assume an approaching cop will murder a civilian even though some sure have. Now I do believe if a cop threatens your life then you do certainly have the right to defend yourself even if it means shooting them but I do not believe cops are inherently dangerous nor do I believe one should 'shoot on sight'. This is quite a dangerous attitude and tantamount to anarchy. They do have a legitimate job to do even though some (many?) will overstep those bounds and it is a very small minority who will go and murder an OCer. It's more than possible to go through ones life never seeing anything close to that level of power abuse.

 

[DrTodd]

Although philosophically, this makes you as guilty as any anti gunner, I am forced to concede. OC is counterproductive to the furtherance of gun rights, and has, in our new police state, become too dangerous to practice.

I still open carry. It is done discreetly, however. My purpose in open carrying is for my benefit first. Sure, I will attend events where OC is important as a political statement as I'm able. For me though, open carry is used to legally carry in more areas.

 

[Michigander]

Although philosophically, this makes you as guilty as any anti gunner, I am forced to concede. OC is counterproductive to the furtherance of gun rights, and has, in our new police state, become too dangerous to practice.

Does that mean you're bowing out of moc leadership?

 

[MikeTheGreek]

I don't get how you even categorize a guy in Walmart spinning a bb gun around in his hands with carrying a holstered handgun on your side....

This cop should be arrested and charged with murder for what he did, but it has really nothing to do with open carrying for us.

Now, unless you OC a long gun with no sling and twirl it around while inside businesses, then there is really no reason to say you're stopping OCing.

 

[Michigander]

Yep. Good summary.

 

[Plan B]

I don't get how you even categorize a guy in Walmart spinning a bb gun around in his hands with carrying a holstered handgun on your side....

This cop should be arrested and charged with murder for what he did, but it has really nothing to do with open carrying for us.

Now, unless you OC a long gun with no sling and twirl it around while inside businesses, then there is really no reason to say you're stopping OCing.

Um, sorta....

Yes the guy was being a dork in walmart, what do you expect really, its walmart...And yes, the guy was murdered and charges should be filed. But. The guy is dead. That could have been me. From what I have seen in an alarming increase in violence against even unarmed law abiding people, adding a visible firearm to the situation could easily prove fatal. No twirling necessary.

 

[The Truth]

Um, sorta....

Yes the guy was being a dork in walmart, what do you expect really, its walmart...And yes, the guy was murdered and charges should be filed. But. The guy is dead. That could have been me. From what I have seen in an alarming increase in violence against even unarmed law abiding people, adding a visible firearm to the situation could easily prove fatal. To twirling necessary.

Unless you are twirling an MK around your finger - which you would NOT, no, that could not have been you. That's some pretty flawed logic, borderline hyperbole. And you're a Michigan OC leader? Wow.

 

[MikeTheGreek]

Um, sorta....

Yes the guy was being a dork in walmart, what do you expect really, its walmart...And yes, the guy was murdered and charges should be filed. But. The guy is dead. That could have been me. From what I have seen in an alarming increase in violence against even unarmed law abiding people, adding a visible firearm to the situation could easily prove fatal. To twirling necessary.

Do you have any evidence or news articles where someone legally OCing a real firearm was shot by police, and not some guy twirling a BB gun? Still fail to see why this would make you change your mind about OC. I mean..obviously it's your choice, but this has absolutely nothing to do with that we are doing here when we OC, none at all.

 

[MikeTheGreek]

Unless you are twirling an MK around your finger - which you would NOT, no, that could not have been you. That's some pretty flawed logic, borderline hyperbole. And you're a Michigan OC leader? Wow.

Whao Whao, where did you see anything about this guy being a MOC Leader?

I've never even seen him post before or heard of him, and as a member of MOC myself, I highly doubt any of us...especially someone at the top would say crazy things like this about OC being counterproductive, etc. :banghead:

 

[Plan B]

Do you have any evidence or news articles where someone legally OCing a real firearm was shot by police, and not some guy twirling a BB gun? Still fail to see why this would make you change your mind about OC. I mean..obviously it's your choice, but this has absolutely nothing to do with that we are doing here when we OC, none at all.

You're not seeing the real problem. The guy with the bb gun and his dumb*** actions is not the issue here! It's a mentality or perhaps a training that results in police firing at a person merely at the sight of a gun, or when someone yells the word "GUN!" . This is bad for open carry.

 

[MikeTheGreek]

You're not seeing the real problem. The guy with the bb gun and his dumb*** actions is not the issue here! It's a mentality or perhaps a training that results in police firing at a person merely at the sight of a gun, or when someone yells the word "GUN!" . This is bad for open carry.

The police (as stupid as they were) fired upon the site of a rifle, non-slung, in the hands of a man who was twirling it around.

They did not fire, and as far as I know, have never fired (Might be wrong, but have never heard anything) on anyone carrying a holstered handgun.

The fact that you think this shooting puts you or any other OCer in danger makes me worry about you, really.

I think it may be time for you to hit that 'Sign Out' button for the last time....

 

[The Truth]

You're not seeing the real problem. The guy with the bb gun and his dumb*** actions is not the issue here! It's a mentality or perhaps a training that results in police firing at a person merely at the sight of a gun, or when someone yells the word "GUN!" . This is bad for open carry.

What's bad for Open Carry is people like you who perpetuate FEAR and LIES through hyperbole. I doubt you are even aware of all the facts in the John Crawford III murder. He was murdered for 2 reasons: 911 caller is a liar and used hyperbole just like you to get the police response he wanted, and the police shot first and asked questions later.

The story is still completely irrelevant to legal OC, no matter how hard you try to find a correlation.

@MikeTheGreek, my apologies. I made an assumption based on this post:

Does that mean you're bowing out of moc leadership?

 

[MikeTheGreek]

What's bad for Open Carry is people like you who perpetuate FEAR and LIES through hyperbole. I doubt you are even aware of all the facts in the John Crawford III murder. He was murdered for 2 reasons: 911 caller is a liar and used hyperbole just like you to get the police response he wanted, and the police shot first and asked questions later.
The story is still completely irrelevant to legal OC, no matter how hard you try to find a correlation.

@MikeTheGreek, my apologies. I made an assumption based on this post:

Yeah I just saw that post...I have never heard of this guy and he may be a MOC leader but I surely hope not, that really scares me.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Realistically, that guy wasn't shot for open carry. He was shot for shopping.