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Letter to Senator/Representative regarding MD training

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
We should be happy as the laws are pretty darned good for the first time and way better than even the one that was passed and vetoed ( thanks diamond jim) so baby steps are good things. If this pans out it may not take long to go to constitutional carry.

How can we be happy when no one knows what we actually got? And the DOJ has no clue what they are doing? Bet there are a few of 'em wishing for Constitutional Carry now... I'm sure it will get figured out eventually but right now it's like Benny Hill. Minus the girls.
 
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Packfanatic

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
177
Location
North of Madison
?

How can we be happy when no one knows what we actually got? And the DOJ has no clue what they are doing? Bet there are a few of 'em wishing for Constitutional Carry now... I'm sure it will get figured out eventually but right now it's like Benny Hill. Minus the girls.

Did we not get concealed carry ? Was it not signed? Would you prefer we not have this and go on as we have in the past when diamond jim was doing his NO vote on anything he wanted or using the frankenstein powers... ?

Open carry and harrassment from the po po ( especially Madistan) has apparently significantly decreased. When the bell rings on 01 Nov. 2011 I will be submitting for my CCP in Wisconsin, that i will get.

I am pretty happy as i stated but then not all can be happy. I guess the unhappy people should move to illinois so discussing, waiting and being patient to see what unfolds with this law would not concern them and maybe Illinois will pass constitutional carry just to show Wisconsin up. it is what it is and i am happy.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
mrjam2jab said:
But... they are firearms instructors, I'm guessing certified by the state of MD... and therefore,

175.60(4)(a)(1)(c) A firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and is offered by a law enforcement agency or, if the course is taught by an instructor who is certified by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors
Brilliant! :applause: :banana: :monkey
In all the times I've read the various parts of the new law, I never caught that, at least in the way it can be applied to the MD online training.

So even if DOJ decides the MDPTC is not a LEA (which I will, somewhat reluctantly, admit seems to be the case), they can't deny the second part of that clause.
Well, they can, but it won't pass scrutiny by a court...
 
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HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
I guess the unhappy people should move to illinois so discussing, waiting and being patient to see what unfolds with this law would not concern them and maybe Illinois will pass constitutional carry just to show Wisconsin up. it is what it is and i am happy.

It is what it is and what it is is a run-on sentence.

:p

Welcome to the forum.
 
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cheezhed

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
70
Location
Sheboygan
I hope that they take my hunter safety certificate as I took the internet/CD course. I did do a six hour field day.
 

outdoorsman53

New member
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
3
Location
milltown
How can we be happy when no one knows what we actually got? And the DOJ has no clue what they are doing? Bet there are a few of 'em wishing for Constitutional Carry now... I'm sure it will get figured out eventually but right now it's like Benny Hill. Minus the girls.

You are an idiot, you talk tough but would fold and cry for mama just like the morons in Madison last summer at Culvers. You are one of Hughyz club people that follow every word like sheep in heat.

Yeah, I know the idiot moderator or idiot administrator will nuke me but it takes a whole five minutes to get back on here. constitutional carry is finished, gone, itz over for that crap in Wisconsin. Being dumb and fat is no way to go through life, idiot.
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Can I super-size that spray for you?

The troll(s) has been banned how many times under how many screen names? Get out the super size "Troll Spray".
Looks like Outdoorsman53 followed handyman, logables, santana, spartacus, and several others into the dumper.... This guy needs to get a life; I'm sure the mods have better things to do than pest removal.... Although it is fun to watch in sort of a perverse way.
2empiit.jpg

 

mrjam2jab

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
I hope that they take my hunter safety certificate as I took the internet/CD course. I did do a six hour field day.

Should not be a problem:

(4) TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. (a) The proof of train-
ing requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of
the following:
1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an
instructor or organization that conducted the course or
program, that indicates the individual completed any of
the following:
a. The hunter education program established under s.
29.591 or a substantially similar program that is estab-
lished by another state, country, or province and that is
recognized by the department of natural resources.
 

springfield 1911

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
484
Location
Racine, Wisconsin, USA
Did we not get concealed carry ? Was it not signed? Would you prefer we not have this and go on as we have in the past when diamond jim was doing his NO vote on anything he wanted or using the frankenstein powers... ?
I've been behind ccw since chavla wouldn't let it come to the floor for a vote , When the bone was fresh
2 more times ppa failed and the bone had surely become rotted.
Now with a porterhouse in front of us the old dogs couldn't let go of that old dried out bone and the leaders of the rino party made sure Constitutional carry would not make it to walkers desk.


Open carry and harrassment from the po po ( especially Madistan) has apparently significantly decreased. When the bell rings on 01 Nov. 2011 I will be submitting for my CCP in Wisconsin, that i will get.
And many believe the harrassment will stop now because of some fine the officer may recieve, Convince it to a judge, It may have taken longer but the courts would have given us constitutional carry.

I am pretty happy as i stated but then not all can be happy. I guess the unhappy people should move to illinois so discussing, waiting and being patient to see what unfolds with this law would not concern them and maybe Illinois will pass constitutional carry just to show Wisconsin up. it is what it is and i am happy.

Why fight for Rights when you can be happy and content with scraps should the Master be so kind.

Many will be sorry this passed.
 

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
I think both sides of the current discussion can combine their points in to one statement... maybe some common ground here:

Take no solace in a government partially recognizing that which is endowed unto you by your creator, and as you fight for the remainder, do not forget to appreciate the progress you have made.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Trip20 said:
Take no solace in a government partially recognizing that which is endowed unto you by your creator, and as you fight for the remainder, remember to appreciate the progress you have made.
FTFY...
But yeah, what he said. (What he said very well.)
 

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
Thanks MKEgal. That reads much better.

Your posts typically send me searching on the internet. Your last post is no exception. Apparently I gotta get with it.
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Brilliant! :applause: :banana: :monkey
In all the times I've read the various parts of the new law, I never caught that, at least in the way it can be applied to the MD online training.

So even if DOJ decides the MDPTC is not a LEA (which I will, somewhat reluctantly, admit seems to be the case), they can't deny the second part of that clause.
Well, they can, but it won't pass scrutiny by a court...

I suppose they could question whether an automated on-line course such as the Maryland course is really "taught" by anyone. It may be designed by the most competent instructors in the world, but it isn't really taught by them.

I don't think the fact that the course originates in another state is relevant. The statute accepts NRA courses taught anywhere; plus it accepts hunters safety courses from other states, indeed from other countries.

As I see it, if there is a legitimate issue with online training such as the Maryland course, it's with the fact that there's no way in place to verify that anyone actually did anything more than just click "next" with their mouse throughout the entire course. There's no exam, there's no good way to verify that the person sitting at the computer clicking "next" is the actual person whose name appears on the certificate that prints out at the end of the course.

There's nothing wrong with the content of that course, it's just a firearms safety course with the same information that any basic course would include. Unfortunately we only face this issue because too many legislators believed that mandatory training made sense. I might have made political sense to them, but it makes no real world sense. Fear is a powerful motivator, but it's not a powerful argument. It's not an argument at all. It's a psychological explanation why we do certain things, but not a logical justification for doing them.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I was looking forward to seeing the "opinion" on this today.

Anyone hear anything yet ?


...................Da Po-lock

I believe I was mistaken. They were supposed to have the application form and the permit itself designed today. I believe they have until 11/1 to actually release anything.
 

Da Po-lock

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Green Bay, WI
I believe I was mistaken. They were supposed to have the application form and the permit itself designed today. I believe they have until 11/1 to actually release anything.


How lovely........
People won't know if the training they have will qualify until the DAY they are able to FINALLY apply for a WI permit.

What a cleverly contrived scheme our 'ol government has plotted.

Well, I for one still plan on sending in my MD certificate with my application on Nov. 1

.............Da Po-lock
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
How lovely........
People won't know if the training they have will qualify.....

This is horse is beyond dead. YES, we DO know. All you have to do is read 175.60(4).

What we don't know yet is what has to be on the Certificate for it to be accepted by the DOJ as proof of training. The DOJ cannot mandate what they will accept as training, only what must be on the certificate that is issued by the trainer.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
This is horse is beyond dead. YES, we DO know. All you have to do is read 175.60(4).

What we don't know yet is what has to be on the Certificate for it to be accepted by the DOJ as proof of training. The DOJ cannot mandate what they will accept as training, only what must be on the certificate that is issued by the trainer.

Too bad you guys don't know what qualifies for training yet.......:D (couldn't resist)
 
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