Local LEO's enforcing federal law? Allowed or not?

[color of law]

All police officers are people, just like the rest of the people. They have the same rights as individuals. They are only limited in what they do as government agents. And then only by what statutes and the constitution limits them to. The BOR has no limits for police, it does not even mention police.

Fallacious argument. Does a doctor cease being a doctor when he leaves his office and goes home? No, he is still a doctor. Until he gives up his license he is a doctor 24/7.

So again, As a police officer you are either on duty or off duty. But irrespective of being on duty or off duty, when an officer interacts with a citizen relating to a violation of law that officer is acting in the line of duty. That is the millstone around the officer's neck. If the officer wants to make a citizens arrest then the officer needs to cast off the millstone.

Secondly.
Murder, Rape, Manslaughter, Robbery, Sodomy, Larceny, Arson, Mayhem and Burglary are the only common law crimes, true felonies under the constitution. All other felonies are statutory (man made) and are not true felonies.

The Constitution contains all of these common law principles, but it only mentions three criminal offenses.

1. Treason.
It isn't a surprise that treason is defined in the Constitution, as the Founders likely wanted to know how our fledgling nation would deal with enemies within its borders.
Article III Section 3 defines treason as: Levying war against the United States, Adhering to the nation's enemies, or Giving our nation's enemies aid and comfort.
The federal statute defining treason is almost a mirror image of this definition, and it is one of the few crimes for which a defendant may "suffer death."

2. Piracy.
While the Founders weren't prescient enough to anticipate Napster, Congress is empowered under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution to "define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas."
Congress did create a law to punish piracy. So anyone caught robbing American mariners on the high seas in Johnny Depp eyeliner can potentially face life in prison.

3. Counterfeiting.
Article I Section 8 of the Constitution also endows Congress with the ability to punish those who counterfeit "the Securities and current Coin of the United States."
The Secret Service, along with protecting U.S. heads of state, is also charged with protecting the integrity of the nation's currency by investigating and arresting counterfeiters.
Counterfeiting of U.S. currency today is almost always in paper bills, but it is no less illegal.

What About Murder or Robbery?
The Constitution only contains direct references to the three crimes mentioned above, but it leaves the vast array of violent and theft crimes unmentioned.

There are federal laws against murder and robbery of course, and these laws have been justified under the Necessary and Proper Clause of the Constitution, as well as the Commerce Clause.

Do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

 

[Primus]

This is the same sort of way the Feds stuffed the 55 mph speed limit down the state's throats - by saying "we're gonna cut off your highway funds unless you make the interstate speed limit 55 mph!".

So, the violation of the law by an individual was a violation of a STATE law.

Exactly...

And low and behold I was researching what exactly the Colorado sheriffs were refusing..... they said any federal acts or mandates.... so basically if Obama said no rifles... he or congress would have to tie it some other money or incentive. The state would then pass legislation that reflects "no rifle". They would then refuse to enforce said law.

I sincerely hope this clarifies it for the OP.

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[WalkingWolf]

A doctor is a member of the people also, the doctor has detention powers in NC.

It keeps coming back to "what is not illegal is legal".

 

[BB62]

A doctor is a member of the people also, the doctor has detention powers in NC.

It keeps coming back to "what is not illegal is legal".

No, it keeps coming back to "you refuse to read and respond to on-point posts" - like this one (of many): http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...lowed-or-not&p=2017289&viewfull=1#post2017289

 

[WalkingWolf]

No, it keeps coming back to "you refuse to read and respond to on-point posts" - like this one (of many): http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...lowed-or-not&p=2017289&viewfull=1#post2017289

Keep stomping your feet and make demands on the INTERNET. :lol:

The fact IS and always will be "what is not illegal is legal". I don't have to agree with you and if you keep acting in the manner you have I will continue to make fun of you. It is not my fault you cannot grasp logic.

 

[BB62]

Keep stomping your feet and make demands on the INTERNET. :lol:

The fact IS and always will be "what is not illegal is legal". I don't have to agree with you and if you keep acting in the manner you have I will continue to make fun of you. It is not my fault you cannot grasp logic.

"Make fun of me"? "Can't grasp logic"? You are definitely a laugh riot, WW.

Just keep repeating your favorite soothing words.

It's not my fault that you can't grasp the logic/proof repeatedly put in front of you - or offer any REAL proof yourself.

 

[Primus]

Ww... we have all posted numerous definitions,cites, explanations, other people explaining it, actual federal and state statute, we even cited common law for you... . Literally pages of documents we've submitted.

You posted 1 statute that deals with citizens "detention". The rest if your argument hangs on "well they didn't tell me I can't so I CAN!".

At this point its just muddling up the thread with the same line over and over again.

I just hope the op or others would take the time to read what the other guys in here have posted for information.

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[color of law]

A doctor is a member of the people also, the doctor has detention powers in NC.

It keeps coming back to "what is not illegal is legal".

So, the doctor has detention powers under his medical license for a citizen taking a deer out of season.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Have a good day......

 

[WalkingWolf]

So, the doctor has detention powers under his medical license for a citizen taking a deer out of season.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Have a good day......

Did I say he did? No I didn't! "stupid is as stupid does".

 

[WalkingWolf]

Ww... we have all posted numerous definitions,cites, explanations, other people explaining it, actual federal and state statute, we even cited common law for you... . Literally pages of documents we've submitted.

You posted 1 statute that deals with citizens "detention". The rest if your argument hangs on "well they didn't tell me I can't so I CAN!".

At this point its just muddling up the thread with the same line over and over again.

I just hope the op or others would take the time to read what the other guys in here have posted for information.

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NOT ONE of you have posted a cite that a local police officer cannot make a felony arrest on a federal offense. All you have been doing is posting carp hoping it will stick to the wall.

"what is not illegal is legal"!

 

[Primus]

NOT ONE of you have posted a cite that a local police officer cannot make a felony arrest on a federal offense. All you have been doing is posting carp hoping it will stick to the wall.

"what is not illegal is legal"!

Ww..... I posted numerous cites explaining jurisdiction. I even posted the us code that give authority the the FBI to arrest. It makes it clear there is SEPARATE jurisdiction. Its too easy.

Again... we only have the powers that are granted to us. Not the other way around.

By your thought process a citizen can arrest on international interpol crimes. As long as it amounts to a interpol felony.......

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[WalkingWolf]

Ww..... I posted numerous cites explaining jurisdiction. I even posted the us code that give authority the the FBI to arrest. It makes it clear there is SEPARATE jurisdiction. Its too easy.

Again... we only have the powers that are granted to us. Not the other way around.

By your thought process a citizen can arrest on international interpol crimes. As long as it amounts to a interpol felony.......

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YOU have not posted ONE cite that limits a police officer or a civilian from making a arrest on a federal code!

I'll have to research interpol, BUT the OP is not about interpol! More goofy sidetrack poop!

 

[solus]

et al., from a NC statute perspective you are comparing apples and oranges as our statutes delineate state officers, county and city officers specific jurisdictions and responsibilities.
for example: (emphasis is mine)

Article 13, Law Enforcement.
§160A-281: Policemen appointed. A city is authorized to appoint a chief of police and to employ other police officers who may reside outside the corporate limits of the city unless the council provides otherwise.

§ 160A-285. Powers and duties of policemen. As a peace officer, a policeman shall have within the corporate limits of the city all of the powers invested in law-enforcement officers by statute or common law. He shall also have power to serve all civil and criminal process that may be directed to him by any officer of the General Court of Justice and may enforce the ordinances and regulations of the city as the council may direct.

§ 160A-286. Extraterritorial jurisdiction of policemen.
In addition to their authority within the corporate limits, city policemen shall have all the powers invested in law-enforcement officers by statute or common law within one mile of the corporate limits of the city, and on all property owned by or leased to the city wherever located.

§ 15A-402. Territorial jurisdiction of officers to make arrests.
(a) Territorial Jurisdiction of State Officers. – Law-enforcement officers of the State of North Carolina may arrest persons at any place within the State.

(b) Territorial Jurisdiction of County and City Officers. – Law-enforcement officers of cities and counties may arrest persons within their particular cities or counties and on any property and rights-of-way owned by the city or county outside its limits.

(c) City Officers, Outside Territory. – Law-enforcement officers of cities may arrest persons at any point which is one mile or less from the nearest point in the boundary of such city. Law enforcement officers of cities may transport a person in custody to or from any place within the State for the purpose of that person attending criminal court proceedings.

(e) County Officers, Outside Territory, for Felonies. – Law-enforcement officers of counties may arrest persons at any place in the State of North Carolina when the arrest is based upon a felony committed within the territory described in subsection (b).

§ 15A-406. Assistance by federal officers.
(a) For purposes of this section, "federal law enforcement officer" means any of the following persons who are employed as full-time law enforcement officers by the federal government and who are authorized to carry firearms in the performance of their duties:

long list 1-15 federal agencies followed…

(b) A federal law enforcement officer is authorized under the following circumstances to enforce criminal laws anywhere within the State:
(1) If the federal law enforcement officer is asked...to provide temporary assistance...
(2) If the federal law enforcement officer is asked by a state or local law enforcement officer to provide temporary assistance...

(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to expand the authority of federal officers to initiate or conduct an independent investigation into violation of North Carolina law.

§ 160A-287. City lockups. A city shall have authority to establish, erect, repair, maintain and operate a lockup for the temporary detention of prisoners pending their transferal to the county or district jail or the State Department of Corrections.

§ 15A-404. Detention of offenders by private persons.
(a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A-405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

the detention statute does not provide an acceptable methodology for a citizen to detain someone, but remember if a citizen points a firearm at someone it is a felony by NC statutes. so not sure how any individual would 'detain' another NC citizen.

Finally, remember the only elected official , as defined by NC constitution, to uphold the peace is the county sheriff within each of the Tarheel's counties! My humble understanding is this is the same concept and principle within each of our counties throughout the united states. as such they are the highest law enforcement agent within the county which is why the WY sheriffs mandated to the Feds before they conduct any activity within any WY county they must get approval from the local sheriff!

no i am not entertaining Native American's jurisdiction or oversight by the Feds. it is not germane at this point.

therefore, as defined by NC statute, each designated law enforcement personal have limiting jurisdiction and responsibilities. As pointed out in another thread, NC LE's oaths only have personal swearing to uphold NC Statutes ONLY!!

ftp://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_160A/Article_13.PDF

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_15A/Article_20.pdf

ipse

 

[solus]

§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation.

search of NC statutes shows this is the only reference that pops up for the term "open carry of a firearm' which does not have a prohibition behind it, e.g., educational property, 14-269.2 (b).

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_54B.html

ipse

 

[WalkingWolf]

Good post but there still is nothing in the NC law limiting a police officer from making a arrest on federal law. OR acting as a private citizen making a detention. What the above statutes do is set about physical boundaries. Which have no effect on a a private citizen, and a officer outside those boundaries does not give up his rights as a member of the people.

I have made DUI arrests well outside of my jurisdiction in Illinois, convictions in every one. One such arrest was made in Cornland Il, well outside the Springfield city limits, and actually in Logan county. The first thing the lawyer did in court was throw up I was outside my jurisdiction, and the judge promptly told him it did not matter.

Actual people who have served as police officers are well aware that they may be in a situation to enforce federal code, or for public safety make a arrest outside physical jurisdiction. There are no standing around swearing in during such emergencies, and real police officers know that. Florida Marine Patrol routinely makes arrests outside of state waters, in federal waters. They do that on the authority as a citizen. I believe there is a noted court case on the FMP doing exactly that, and conviction held up AS citizen arrest on federal charges.

I honestly do not know where people come up with the idea that police officers put their pants on any differently than anybody else.

The safest way to avoid arrest by federal agent, local or state police officer is obey the law.

 

[Primus]

et al., from a NC statute perspective you are comparing apples and oranges as our statutes delineate state officers, county and city officers specific jurisdictions and responsibilities.
for example: (emphasis is mine)

Article 13, Law Enforcement.
§160A-281: Policemen appointed. A city is authorized to appoint a chief of police and to employ other police officers who may reside outside the corporate limits of the city unless the council provides otherwise.

§ 160A-285. Powers and duties of policemen. As a peace officer, a policeman shall have within the corporate limits of the city all of the powers invested in law-enforcement officers by statute or common law. He shall also have power to serve all civil and criminal process that may be directed to him by any officer of the General Court of Justice and may enforce the ordinances and regulations of the city as the council may direct.

§ 160A-286. Extraterritorial jurisdiction of policemen.
In addition to their authority within the corporate limits, city policemen shall have all the powers invested in law-enforcement officers by statute or common law within one mile of the corporate limits of the city, and on all property owned by or leased to the city wherever located.

§ 15A-402. Territorial jurisdiction of officers to make arrests.
(a) Territorial Jurisdiction of State Officers. – Law-enforcement officers of the State of North Carolina may arrest persons at any place within the State.

(b) Territorial Jurisdiction of County and City Officers. – Law-enforcement officers of cities and counties may arrest persons within their particular cities or counties and on any property and rights-of-way owned by the city or county outside its limits.

(c) City Officers, Outside Territory. – Law-enforcement officers of cities may arrest persons at any point which is one mile or less from the nearest point in the boundary of such city. Law enforcement officers of cities may transport a person in custody to or from any place within the State for the purpose of that person attending criminal court proceedings.

(e) County Officers, Outside Territory, for Felonies. – Law-enforcement officers of counties may arrest persons at any place in the State of North Carolina when the arrest is based upon a felony committed within the territory described in subsection (b).

§ 15A-406. Assistance by federal officers.
(a)For purposes of this section, "federal law enforcement officer" means any of the following persons who are employed as full-time law enforcement officers by the federal government and who are authorized to carry firearms in the performance of their duties:

long list 1-15 federal agencies followed…

(b) A federal law enforcement officer is authorized under the following circumstances to enforce criminal laws anywhere within the State:
(1) If the federal law enforcement officer is asked...to provide temporary assistance...
(2) If the federal law enforcement officer is asked by a state or local law enforcement officer to provide temporary assistance...

(f)Nothing in this section shall be construed to expand the authority of federal officers to initiate or conduct an independent investigation into violation of North Carolina law.

§ 160A-287. City lockups. A city shall have authority to establish, erect, repair, maintain and operate a lockup for the temporary detention of prisoners pending their transferal to the county or district jail or the State Department of Corrections.

§ 15A-404. Detention of offenders by private persons.
(a)No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A-405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

the detention statute does not provide an acceptable methodology for a citizen to detain someone, but remember if a citizen points a firearm at someone it is a felony by NC statutes. so not sure how any individual would 'detain' another NC citizen.

Finally, remember the only elected official , as defined by NC constitution, to uphold the peace is the county sheriff within each of the Tarheel's counties! My humble understanding is this is the same concept and principle within each of our counties throughout the united states. as such they are the highest law enforcement agent within the county which is why the WY sheriffs mandated to the Feds before they conduct any activity within any WY county they must get approval from the local sheriff!

no i am not entertaining Native American's jurisdiction or oversight by the Feds. it is not germane at this point.

therefore, as defined by NC statute, each designated law enforcement personal have limiting jurisdiction and responsibilities. As pointed out in another thread, NC LE's oaths only have personal swearing to uphold NC Statutes ONLY!!

ftp://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_160A/Article_13.PDF

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_15A/Article_20.pdf

ipse

Thank you solus. Good post and explanation.

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[WalkingWolf]

Officers
The Marine Unit is administered under the District 2 Patrol Division, and staffed by members of the Operations Bureau on a rotating basis.

Duties and Responsibilities
The Daytona Beach Police Marine Unit patrols the waterways and marinas within the city limits of Daytona Beach. The marine unit officers enforce Federal and State laws, as well as City Ordinances. The members of the unit frequently conduct vessel security inspections to promote boating safety throughout the waterways.



http://www.codb.us/index.aspx?NID=484

:lol: Guess no wanabe lawyer told them they couldn't. :lol:

Appellants also question the authority of the Florida Marine Patrol officers to arrest them. Florida recognizes the common law rule that a policeman may make an arrest as a private citizen when a felony is committed in his presence. United States v. Ible, 630 F.2d 389, 393 (5th Cir.1980). Of course, Florida law can only be applied to acts that occur within the boundaries of the State of Florida, which with regard to the west coast of Florida, extends three marine leagues or approximately nine geographical
miles seaward of the Gulf of Mexico coastline. See Fla. Const. Art. II, § 1(a). Since the appellants' arrest occurred approximately twenty-five miles off the coast, we cannot apply Florida law; we must apply federal law. "Where, as here, however, there is no specific federal law to govern this situation, a federal court may resort to and apply the common law." United States v. Collins, 523 F.Supp. 239, 243 (S.D.Fla.1981), aff'd, 667 F.2d 97 (5th Cir.1982) (citations omitted); accord United States v. Wilson, 528 F.Supp. 1129, 1132 (S.D.Fla.1982). Thus, we apply the common law rule on citizen's arrests in this case, although as a matter of federal common law, not Florida common law.
Applying the common law rule to the facts of this case, it is clear that the arrest was valid and lawful as a citizen's arrest. The Florida Marine Patrol was properly patrolling a federally protected crab sanctuary. It noticed that a vessel or vessels was operating within the sanctuary and went to investigate whether federal fishing regulations were being violated. As the Florida Marine Patrol approached the MISS LAURIE and the PIECE OF WORK, the officers smelled marijuana. They turned a spotlight on the vessels and immediately saw marijuana bales in plain view on the MISS LAURIE. This est

UNITED STATES v. HERNANDEZ

 

[BB62]

Officers
The Marine Unit is administered under the District 2 Patrol Division, and staffed by members of the Operations Bureau on a rotating basis.

Duties and Responsibilities
The Daytona Beach Police Marine Unit patrols the waterways and marinas within the city limits of Daytona Beach. The marine unit officers enforce Federal and State laws, as well as City Ordinances. The members of the unit frequently conduct vessel security inspections to promote boating safety throughout the waterways.

http://www.codb.us/index.aspx?NID=484

Guess no wanabe lawyer told them they couldn't.

Appellants also question the authority of the Florida Marine Patrol officers to arrest them. Florida recognizes the common law rule that a policeman may make an arrest as a private citizen when a felony is committed in his presence. United States v. Ible, 630 F.2d 389, 393 (5th Cir.1980). Of course, Florida law can only be applied to acts that occur within the boundaries of the State of Florida, which with regard to the west coast of Florida, extends three marine leagues or approximately nine geographical
miles seaward of the Gulf of Mexico coastline. See Fla. Const. Art. II, § 1(a). Since the appellants' arrest occurred approximately twenty-five miles off the coast, we cannot apply Florida law; we must apply federal law. "Where, as here, however, there is no specific federal law to govern this situation, a federal court may resort to and apply the common law." United States v. Collins, 523 F.Supp. 239, 243 (S.D.Fla.1981), aff'd, 667 F.2d 97 (5th Cir.1982) (citations omitted); accord United States v. Wilson, 528 F.Supp. 1129, 1132 (S.D.Fla.1982). Thus, we apply the common law rule on citizen's arrests in this case, although as a matter of federal common law, not Florida common law.
Applying the common law rule to the facts of this case, it is clear that the arrest was valid and lawful as a citizen's arrest. The Florida Marine Patrol was properly patrolling a federally protected crab sanctuary. It noticed that a vessel or vessels was operating within the sanctuary and went to investigate whether federal fishing regulations were being violated. As the Florida Marine Patrol approached the MISS LAURIE and the PIECE OF WORK, the officers smelled marijuana. They turned a spotlight on the vessels and immediately saw marijuana bales in plain view on the MISS LAURIE. This est

UNITED STATES v. HERNANDEZ

Gee, the long requested cite finally appears. It's only taken two days worth of requests to get an alleged valid example.

 

[WalkingWolf]

You allege. Link to it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Guess you can't read. :lol:

 

[Primus]

Officers
The Marine Unit is administered under the District 2 Patrol Division, and staffed by members of the Operations Bureau on a rotating basis.

Duties and Responsibilities
The Daytona Beach Police Marine Unit patrols the waterways and marinas within the city limits of Daytona Beach. The marine unit officers enforce Federal and State laws, as well as City Ordinances. The members of the unit frequently conduct vessel security inspections to promote boating safety throughout the waterways.



http://www.codb.us/index.aspx?NID=484

:lol: Guess no wanabe lawyer told them they couldn't. :lol:

Appellants also question the authority of the Florida Marine Patrol officers to arrest them. Florida recognizes the common law rule that a policeman may make an arrest as a private citizen when a felony is committed in his presence. United States v. Ible, 630 F.2d 389, 393 (5th Cir.1980). Of course, Florida law can only be applied to acts that occur within the boundaries of the State of Florida, which with regard to the west coast of Florida, extends three marine leagues or approximately nine geographical
miles seaward of the Gulf of Mexico coastline. See Fla. Const. Art. II, § 1(a). Since the appellants' arrest occurred approximately twenty-five miles off the coast, we cannot apply Florida law; we must apply federal law. "Where, as here, however, there is no specific federal law to govern this situation, a federal court may resort to and apply the common law." United States v. Collins, 523 F.Supp. 239, 243 (S.D.Fla.1981), aff'd, 667 F.2d 97 (5th Cir.1982) (citations omitted); accord United States v. Wilson, 528 F.Supp. 1129, 1132 (S.D.Fla.1982). Thus, we apply the common law rule on citizen's arrests in this case, although as a matter of federal common law, not Florida common law.
Applying the common law rule to the facts of this case, it is clear that the arrest was valid and lawful as a citizen's arrest. The Florida Marine Patrol was properly patrolling a federally protected crab sanctuary. It noticed that a vessel or vessels was operating within the sanctuary and went to investigate whether federal fishing regulations were being violated. As the Florida Marine Patrol approached the MISS LAURIE and the PIECE OF WORK, the officers smelled marijuana. They turned a spotlight on the vessels and immediately saw marijuana bales in plain view on the MISS LAURIE. This est

UNITED STATES v. HERNANDEZ

Good cite and I appreciate it. So a marine unit who is GRANTED federal powers gives into FEDERAL WATERS..... and enforced FEDERAL common law because there was NO STATE law and state common law couldnt apply. Seem you found the one case that proves the rule.

They were granted federal powers so they had federal jurisdiction in those waters.

I'm not granted federal powers. So guess what. I can't go I to federal water/land and enforce federal law of common law....

Again good cite. But your proving the rule

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