The Don
Guest
Left about ten minutes ago. No MPD to speak of. One interesting/positive conversation with an elderly lady I'll type up when I'm not on my phone. For those who were there, it was nice to meet you.
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Madison PD detains and cites OCers tonight.
- Thread starter Shotgun
- Start date
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
I sent out a press release earlier this afternoon. I'm not sure if Pat is on it, but I'll double check and add him if not.
SAK
Regular Member
ICarry release
ICarry.org - Sept 20, 2010 Breaking News Release: Lessons from Wisconsin's Last Incident of Police Harassment of Citizens Lawfully Carrying Firearms in the Open
On Saturday, September 19th, a group of five responsible firearms owners gathered to share company and conversation at Culvers on Town Blvd in Madison, Wisconsin. Approximately eight Madison police officers approached the firearms owners who were enjoying food and discussion with one another.
Demanding identification of the gun owners, officers used intimidation and coercion in attempts to force the citizens to provide ID. State law does not allow officers to demand ID in circumstances like this, and Madison PD’s very own “legal updates” explains exactly why refusing to provide ID is not “obstructing.”
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/documents/Summer2004.pdf
Despite this well-known aspect of law, at least two of the law-abiding firearms owners were arrested and cited with “obstructing” charges for not providing ID. All of the citizens were harassed in public, intimidated and coerced, and inconvenienced and humiliated by the disrespectful, diminishing, and suppressive behavior of Madison police officers.
ICarry.org would first like to thank Wisconsin Carry, Inc. for its steadfast resolve to protect citizens’ rights in Wisconsin. ICarry.org is committed to supporting Wisconsin Carry, Inc. and all responsible firearms owners in the state.
The vast majority of officers are well-trained to respect the rights of citizens openly carrying firearms. Over the past few years in Wisconsin, a great deal of education has been provided for police, and police throughout the state have been exhibiting exemplary performance. There have been only a select few isolated incidents of failure of training or behavioral problems with police.
ICarry.org would like to see this incident be the last. It’s time to accept and embrace the lawful practice of open carry. There is no need to discriminate or profile against open carriers – they should be afforded the same level of dignity and respect as all other peaceful citizens. Like police officers, they too carry a sidearm only for self-protection.
ICarry.org - Sept 20, 2010 Breaking News Release: Lessons from Wisconsin's Last Incident of Police Harassment of Citizens Lawfully Carrying Firearms in the Open
On Saturday, September 19th, a group of five responsible firearms owners gathered to share company and conversation at Culvers on Town Blvd in Madison, Wisconsin. Approximately eight Madison police officers approached the firearms owners who were enjoying food and discussion with one another.
Demanding identification of the gun owners, officers used intimidation and coercion in attempts to force the citizens to provide ID. State law does not allow officers to demand ID in circumstances like this, and Madison PD’s very own “legal updates” explains exactly why refusing to provide ID is not “obstructing.”
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/documents/Summer2004.pdf
Despite this well-known aspect of law, at least two of the law-abiding firearms owners were arrested and cited with “obstructing” charges for not providing ID. All of the citizens were harassed in public, intimidated and coerced, and inconvenienced and humiliated by the disrespectful, diminishing, and suppressive behavior of Madison police officers.
ICarry.org would first like to thank Wisconsin Carry, Inc. for its steadfast resolve to protect citizens’ rights in Wisconsin. ICarry.org is committed to supporting Wisconsin Carry, Inc. and all responsible firearms owners in the state.
The vast majority of officers are well-trained to respect the rights of citizens openly carrying firearms. Over the past few years in Wisconsin, a great deal of education has been provided for police, and police throughout the state have been exhibiting exemplary performance. There have been only a select few isolated incidents of failure of training or behavioral problems with police.
ICarry.org would like to see this incident be the last. It’s time to accept and embrace the lawful practice of open carry. There is no need to discriminate or profile against open carriers – they should be afforded the same level of dignity and respect as all other peaceful citizens. Like police officers, they too carry a sidearm only for self-protection.
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
I realize this forum is not the target audience for the release. I'm not arguing with the text of the release.
For any who are uncertain, I would like to point out that, at this incident, eight-out-of-eight cops seem to have done nothing to restrain or dissuade their colleagues from illegally arresting or citing the ID refusals.
I guess the vast majority of good cops must have been across town. It seems unlikely the police hand picked this group of officers expressly for this dinner meeting because the officers had distinguished themselves as all being not in the vast majority.
Think on that for just a bit, lads. Not one cop effectively prevented his colleague(s) from illegally citing or arresting the ID refusals. Every single cop went along with it.
Springfielddx40
Guest
xenophon
Regular Member
MPD brought it on themselves........ I think it's time for a refresher on training and the law for them.
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Channel 12 out of MIlwaukee will be running a story on this tonight.
I will have to check that out...
neoinarien
Regular Member
Did I miss it somewhere: there was video taken, right? If so where is it? It would be great to take a look for MANY reasons (learning being #1).
Thanks!
Thanks!
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paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
No video except by the cops. Audio only.
MKEgal
Regular Member
Since the officers were breaking laws, this statute doesn't apply. They didn't have lawful authority
to demand you identify yourselves. In fact, the PD itself put out a memo about it:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/documents/Summer2004.pdf
"Wisconsin law currently does not allow officers to arrest citizens simply for failing to identify themselves."
Here's contact info:
Chief Noble Wray
City of Madison
Police Department
211 S. Carroll St.
Madison, WI 53709
nwray@cityofmadison.com
(608) 266-4022
The victims can file an IA / professional standards complaint:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/professionalStandards.cfm
There's a pdf form there, & the address to mail it to, or you can talk to them in person.
For the rest of us, who are just mad about it but weren't actually infringed upon, here's a public comment form:
https://www.cityofmadison.com/police/forms/feedback.cfm
I'd be quite willing to head over to Madison for an educational session w/ the Chief, or holding signs & handing out
fliers, or even just going back to the Culver's in question & having a good time.
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Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Milwaukee area people, watch Ch. 12 news and look for us--- somebody post a link when it appears!
6-7 gathered at Culvers tonight to greet the news team. Spent a couple hours there, no problems.
6-7 gathered at Culvers tonight to greet the news team. Spent a couple hours there, no problems.
logan
Campaign Veteran
Good luck to everyone who was involved. I wish you the best! Hopefully this will be the last time this happens...
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Great story! Just saw it.
Shawn gave a great interview. Well spoken, calm and factfull.
Good comments from Auric also!
Well done guys!
Carry On!
Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Some coverage in the Wisconsin State Journal
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_793a554e-c462-11df-91dd-001cc4c03286.html
I'm certain I made no "pledge" to sue. I believe it would be more accurate to say that I told the reporter that WCI will refer the matter to its lawyer for guidance on how to respond to the violation of our members' rights.
The reporter asked me if the individuals went to Culvers with the intention of challenging or testing open carry or ID laws. I told him that they absolutely did not go with the intention of testing anything because there is nothing to test: the legality of open carry and the legality of refusal to provide are already settled matters of law. These individuals simply got together for dinner and to socialize. They had neither the intention nor desire to have an interaction with the police and all would have preferred to have had no interaction with the police. If anything, the police were hatching some sort of ill-conceived test of the OCers. They picked the wrong group of guys, a group who clearly were more knowledgeable of the applicable laws and their rights than the police.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_793a554e-c462-11df-91dd-001cc4c03286.html
I'm certain I made no "pledge" to sue. I believe it would be more accurate to say that I told the reporter that WCI will refer the matter to its lawyer for guidance on how to respond to the violation of our members' rights.
The reporter asked me if the individuals went to Culvers with the intention of challenging or testing open carry or ID laws. I told him that they absolutely did not go with the intention of testing anything because there is nothing to test: the legality of open carry and the legality of refusal to provide are already settled matters of law. These individuals simply got together for dinner and to socialize. They had neither the intention nor desire to have an interaction with the police and all would have preferred to have had no interaction with the police. If anything, the police were hatching some sort of ill-conceived test of the OCers. They picked the wrong group of guys, a group who clearly were more knowledgeable of the applicable laws and their rights than the police.
xenophon
Regular Member
Good job guys.