Man beaten, robbed while eating at mall

[LEO 229]

imported post

It is not so much schools.... it is that people expect to be taken care of and if there is nothing in it for them... they are NOT getting involved.

They have to stop thinking the police will be a call away. Unless they are lucky... the police can be 4-6 minutes away on average during an emergency.

This is based on how long it takes me to get to a call driving fast and running lights.

 

[Richie]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

If I have four guys pounding the crap out of me...

I hope they are at least wearing condoms and you are making a couple bucks out of it.

Oh wait that is a different forum... :lol:

ok, ok I have a twisted sense of humor. At least my wife appreciates it :celebrate

 

[Neplusultra]

imported post

T Dubya wrote:

I say once you get checked out at the hospital let your lawyer do the talking if the police have a problem with the use of deadly force. I would take a few blows though just for the jury's sake in case it goes to trial.

A goodto mediocrelawyer is a cure- all for just about anything so long as you keep your mouth shut and don't let an overzealous police officer or commonwealth's attorney use anything you say to incriminate you.

#1 Rule, say nothing without a lawyer, they WILL use it against you. Demonstrate deep concern for the one shot or shot at, don't call them a cockroach etc. You be the one to call the ambulance and police.

That said I'm not sure I'd let them hit me either. I wouldn't want them that close because they could grab you. Plus I saw a video on youtube where a big black guy walks up to a man and sucker punches out cold with one punch. His friends thought it amusing. If punched right you could be down or at least dazed.

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

Richie wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

If I have four guys pounding the crap out of me...

I hope they are at least wearing condoms and you are making a couple bucks out of it.

Oh wait that is a different forum... :lol:

ok, ok I have a twisted sense of humor. At least my wife appreciates it :celebrate

Damn that was so wrong!!! :lol:

 

[vrwmiller]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

What ever happened to the day when the people would band together and step forward as one and stop the fight??

Sad how times have changed. It seems that people do not want to get involved any more.

You remind me of two seperate incidents that I was witness to (before I began to carry regularly)...

1) I was in an apartment complex in Anandale with a friend of mine and we were headed back to my vehicle. As we were headed back, there was a couple arguing in front of one of the buildings. As we were getting into the vehicle, I witnessed the male physically assaulting the female.

I decided to step in. I walked towards the couple and began asking him what his problem was. At which point, they retreated into one of the buildings. I called the police, alerted them to the incident and waited for them to arrive. Gave a statement and left.

I don't evern know what the outcome of that incident was, but my friend remarked about how rare it was for regular citizens to step into a situation like that in defense of others. He admitted that had I not been with him, he probably would not have said anything

2) I was lost in a "slum" in Alexandria..not sure where I was, but it had been a long time since I had been in such worn down area. It was interesting to drive through this neighborhood and see an ice cream truck with a HUGE line. However, there were no children in that line...I had my own conclusions about that scenario, you can draw your own as well...anyway, we drove a little further down the road and I witnessed a mob of, maybe, 20 people assaulting someone on the ground.

I was sincerely concerned for the individual and called the police, but unlike the above incident, I did not get involved. A mob of 20 people against me and my friend...I was unarmed, several of them, I speculated, were. Even if I were armed, I am unsure that I would have stopped to interrupt with a mob that large.

Anyway, there is no real point to this other than to say that there are people that will step in and help still. Unfortunately, it's a rare occassion indeed. On the other hand, the 2nd incident points out that one must take stock of the circumstances as well, I think.

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

Neplusultra wrote:

#1 Rule, say nothing without a lawyer, they WILL use it against you. Demonstrate deep concern for the one shot or shot at, don't call them a cockroach etc. You be the one to call the ambulance and police.

That said I'm not sure I'd let them hit me either. I wouldn't want them that close because they could grab you. Plus I saw a video on youtube where a big black guy walks up to a man and sucker punches out cold with one punch. His friends thought it amusing. If punched right you could be down or at least dazed.

You only need to state that you did shoot and the reason why.. "I feared he/they would seriously hurt or kill me and take my gun to harm others."

 

[swillden]

imported post

T Dubya wrote:

I would take a few blows though just for the jury's sake in case it goes to trial.

I wouldn't. You let them get close enough to start pounding on you and you could end up looking down the barrel of your own gun

 

[PT111]

imported post

No matter what it is a scary situation and all are good points. Just remember that because this fellow survived he is not OK, he will never be the same again I'll guarantee you that. Four on one is not good odds and as 229 said never draw to scare and also never shoot to only wound.

I almost hate to make the comparision but it is, suppose you are a 17 year old thug robbing a 7-11. You walk in and point your Glockin the clerk's face and say open dat cash drawer and gib me da money. The clerk says NO! What do you do then? You notice the clerk moving his hands under the counter. Your life has changed forever and what you do in the next2 seconds will determine both of your lives.

Same way when someone attacks you. You pull the gun on the 4 attackers and they don't run. You had better think fast because every decision you make from then on is going to be questioned. This ain't Dirty Harry or the A-Team, the bullets are real and there are no retakes. If you immediately shoot when you draw you are probably better off than if you delay. Either way you are not going to have time to analyze the situation without making it worse.

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

vrwmiller wrote:

You remind me of two seperate incidents that I was witness to (before I began to carry regularly)...

...snipped....

I was sincerely concerned for the individual and called the police, but unlike the above incident, I did not get involved. A mob of 20 people against me and my friend...I was unarmed, several of them, I speculated, were. Even if I were armed, I am unsure that I would have stopped to interrupt with a mob that large.

...snipped

Ya.... 1 against 20 is a bad move.

Nothing you can do to help there but call the police and watch.

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

PT111 wrote:

snipped....... Same way when someone attacks you. You pull the gun on the 4 attackers and they don't run. You had better think fast because every decision you make from then on is going to be questioned. This ain't Dirty Harry or the A-Team, the bullets are real and there are no retakes. If you immediately shoot when you draw you are probably better off than if you delay. Either way you are not going to have time to analyze the situation without making it worse.

True..... When I draw I am going to be shooting center mass immediately. I do not want someone to kick the gun out of my hand while I threatensomeone to "back off."

 

[SouthernBoy]

imported post

swillden wrote:

T Dubya wrote:

I would take a few blows though just for the jury's sake in case it goes to trial.

I wouldn't. You let them get close enough to start pounding on you and you could end up looking down the barrel of your own gun

:exclaim:
You got that right.

What I think a lot of people don't realize is the speed at which an attack can be on you.

 

[SouthernBoy]

imported post

PT111 wrote:

No matter what it is a scary situation and all are good points. Just remember that because this fellow survived he is not OK, he will never be the same again I'll guarantee you that. Four on one is not good odds and as 229 said never draw to scare and also never shoot to only wound.

I almost hate to make the comparision but it is, suppose you are a 17 year old thug robbing a 7-11. You walk in and point your Glockin the clerk's face and say open dat cash drawer and gib me da money. The clerk says NO! What do you do then? You notice the clerk moving his hands under the counter. Your life has changed forever and what you do in the next2 seconds will determine both of your lives.

Same way when someone attacks you. You pull the gun on the 4 attackers and they don't run. You had better think fast because every decision you make from then on is going to be questioned. This ain't Dirty Harry or the A-Team, the bullets are real and there are no retakes. If you immediately shoot when you draw you are probably better off than if you delay. Either way you are not going to have time to analyze the situation without making it worse.

There is a rather simple rule of thumb with this (if you can call it simple). If an assailant displays a weapon as part of his threat and you have the time and opportunity to get your weapon into battery to deliver fire, you should do this immediately. Some would say do it anyway, but that's taking a hell of a risk, though a personally decision to take.

For me? Drawing on someone who has me under the barrel would have to be the ultimate last resort. In other words, I would pretty much have to believe I was about to get killed. Then again.. having never been there, I really don't have a clue what I'd do.

 

[SouthernBoy]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

Richie wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

If I have four guys pounding the crap out of me...

I hope they are at least wearing condoms and you are making a couple bucks out of it.

Oh wait that is a different forum... :lol:

ok, ok I have a twisted sense of humor. At least my wife appreciates it :celebrate

Damn that was so wrong!!! :lol:

Yeah, but you gotta love his sense of humor. Mine tends to run in the same vane.

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:

Yeah, but you gotta love his sense of humor. Mine tends to run in the same vane.

I would throw a penalty flag on him for being off topic is I could get the tears out of my eyes.... :lol:

I will have to be more cautious in what I say from now on... Maybe I should retain my right to remain silent....

 

[Thundar]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

Important note: If you draw you better be ready to fire. This is your chance to shoot before someone else decides deadly force needs to be used against you. I never draw to scare.

+1. When Mr. Sig or Mr. S&W come out, their job is to put multiple JHPs on target, not make a thug wet his pants. Decide before you draw. Hesitation and indecision will get you killed.

The people who say problem over whenthey draw, would probably never have had the problem if they open carried.

 

[DeadCenter]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

What ever happened to the day when the people would band together and step forward as one and stop the fight??

Sad how times have changed. It seems that people do not want to get involved any more.

This is so true. And so sad.

DC

 

[Hef]

imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:

While you did not imply firearm usage would be appropriate, I think it's important to point out that in this case it wouldn't be. The attackers did not produce a deadly weapon, and therefore the victim, had he used a firearm to defend himself would be in a heap of trouble.

Disparity of force.

 

[soloban]

imported post

Yet another reason why I never enter a mall without my Kahr strapped to my hip. I wouldn't have let them follow me around that long. Situtational awarness folks....watch your surroundings!

 

[cloudcroft]

imported post

It's too bad the victim didn't have a gun so he could have shot the POS who attacked him.

All you have to do is be in fear of your life or bodily harm. Killing someone is not as serious nowadays as it once was so even if he had used "poor judgement" killing thepunks he'd be out on the street again in no time...criminals prove that every day, over and over again; the victims are all dead (or worse) and the people who do it are back out on the street.

Moral of the story? Don't be so hesitant to kill criminals when they present themselves to you, if they choose you as a victim...it's not a big deal. Just do it.

A Public Service announcement...

-- John D.

 

[Spectre]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

Neplusultra wrote:

#1 Rule, say nothing without a lawyer, they WILL use it against you. Demonstrate deep concern for the one shot or shot at, don't call them a cockroach etc. You be the one to call the ambulance and police.

That said I'm not sure I'd let them hit me either. I wouldn't want them that close because they could grab you. Plus I saw a video on youtube where a big black guy walks up to a man and sucker punches out cold with one punch. His friends thought it amusing. If punched right you could be down or at least dazed.

You only need to state that you did shoot and the reason why.. "I feared he/they would seriously hurt or kill me and take my gun to harm others."

How does it work though with helping complete strangers? "I feared he/they would seriously hurt or kill this person I have never even seen before and I drew my weaponand scared away or killed the attacker(s)"

Are we allowed as citizens to protect another person even if they are not family, friends, or yourself?