Negative LEO/IKEA Encounter

[Venator]

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manicdevery wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

What you say can and will be used against you... by offering your name etc.

if you were to carry in apublic place, let's say WALMART,and not give your name to a LEO if they stop you,couldn't they pull you over after you leave when you are then forced to show your lic. &reg. to find your name and from there forth try to find something to cite you?

Pardon if i seem naive but any and all information from you guys i find very useful. I'm not sure if i am thinking to far into this i am just thekind of guy that wants to be armed withsomething other than my gun. . . my brain. . .

Yes they could. And that has happened. But what was the RAS to pull you over. If it was the gun, that is NOT RAS and anything after that would be an unlawful stop or arrest.

They can also follow you out to your car and write down your plate number assuming the car is plated in your name. They could also follow you home and find out where you live. But the point is you are standing up for your rights and to authority. Make them work harder, until they get tired of harassing you. Or until you file a complaint.

TVance was stopped exactly that way. He asked if he was stopped because of the gun, they said yes. Then then gave him a ticket for an improper plate after they stopped him. The ticket was later dropped because the stop was bad, no RAS or PC.

The choice is always yours to provide ID or not. Always be polite, but firm in your rights. Remember if you are lawful you are in the right and have a stronger position then any unlawful action taken by an unruly LEO.

 

[hopnpop]

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manicdevery wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

What you say can and will be used against you... by offering your name etc.

if you were to carry in apublic place, let's say WALMART,and not give your name to a LEO if they stop you,couldn't they pull you over after you leave when you are then forced to show your lic. &reg. to find your name and from there forth try to find something to cite you?

...yes, if you gave them a vaild reason to pull you over. They can't pull you over for no reason. In your scenario, if they/he pulls you over after declining to provide him with your ID, and you think you're going to be harassed, when he asks you for your drivers' lic you could request to get his supervisor on-scene before continuing any further. Not sure exactly how much good that would do, but it may be another hand to cover your ass with. Of course the traffic stop would take considerably longer but covering your ass might be worth the time.

 

[hopnpop]

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Venator wrote:

Yes they could.
They can also follow you out to your car and write down your plate number assuming the car is plated in your name. They could also follow you home and find out where you live.

Getting your license plate isn't reliable tho. Peopledrivecars all the time that aren't registered to them. If you didn't provide them with your name, they have no way of knowing whether the name the car came back registered to is youor your grandfather. Here's a thoughttho - what if the person whose car you were driving had a warrant? They run the plate, get a hot name - I can only imagine that they'd assume that's you and pull you over. That seems to get complicated really quickly.

Also, how would following you home NOT be consideredharassment? I mean, if you live 6 blocks from WalMart (in this case) and they follow you home, hard to fight it. But if you live on the other end of town, or of their jurisdiction, that would have to be considered harassment, no?

 

[mikestilly]

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T Vance wrote:

I called the Canton Police department again today about the FOIA. I spoke with a woman in records (the same one I spoke with several weeks ago).


Me- "Is that information available to be released yet."

Her - "I'm not sure yet".

Me - "What is being investigated"

Her - "I'm not sure about that, I'm just an office clerk"

Me - "When can I find out"

Her - "Well I'll have to speak with the detective about it. I can call you back when I find out. "

Me - "Do you know which incident I am talking about?"

Her - "Yes. I spoke with you the last time, but you never gave me you name."

Me - "Nope"

Me - "Do you have all the information you need?"

Her - "Yes, I have your file here"

Me- "When will you find out?"

Her - "I probably won't be able to get to it until later this afternoon"

Me- "What time?"

Her- "You can call back after 2 o'clock".

T this is very interesting. Thanks for the update. Dont let them give ya the run around. I cant imagine what they could be doing except for trying to hide their embarassing enounter with you on their part. Something is fishy. If you feel they are messing with you, you may want to give Dean G a call. Something is not right here.

Mike

 

[T Vance]

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[mikestilly]

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My suggestion is to talk to a lawyer about all those question. Only a lawyer with experience in that area should be answering those questions for you. If it were me Id call one immediately because they basically tipped you off by saying what they already told you. Thats my opinion on it.

Mike

 

[T Vance]

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[mikestilly]

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T Vance wrote:

Well, I was told the investigation is CLOSED, and I am having the initial paperwork for the FOIA faxed somewhere so I can start this process.

:celebratesweet

 

[error]

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I was just tipped off to the existence of this thread and I have a few comments from way back on page 1 or so.

Porcupine 411 is an audio message distribution system that liberty activists in New Hampshire have been using for several years now in order to get the word out quickly about various events. I've run the system since 2006. Likely Porcupine 411 became world famous (at least among law enforcement) after an August 2007 incident in which Dave Ridley was detained for OC here in Manchester and called the line to get the word out. Less than two minutes after he made the call, close to a dozen people showed up, one with a video camera. (Do police respond that fast?) He can be seen on the phone to the service in the video. It was covered here in this thread.

The video of the DEA agent shooting himself is authentic, according to snopes.com (if you haven't heard of it, they debunk a wide variety of urban legends).

 

[mikestilly]

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error wrote:

I was just tipped off to the existence of this thread and I have a few comments from way back on page 1 or so.

Porcupine 411 is an audio message distribution system that liberty activists in New Hampshire have been using for several years now in order to get the word out quickly about various events. I've run the system since 2006. Likely Porcupine 411 became world famous (at least among law enforcement) after an August 2007 incident in which Dave Ridley was detained for OC here in Manchester and called the line to get the word out. Less than two minutes after he made the call, close to a dozen people showed up, one with a video camera. (Do police respond that fast?) He can be seen on the phone to the service in the video. It was covered here in this thread.

The video of the DEA agent shooting himself is authentic, according to snopes.com (if you haven't heard of it, they debunk a wide variety of urban legends).

Hi Error: I've actually been following porcupine 411 for around a year now. I love their call in distribution system. It's a great way to get the word out to a group of people. I've even tried to contact the admin of that system as to an ability for OC'er's here in Michigan to take advantage of it if possible. I never got a response so I assumed they were uninterested in what I was asking.

I've been following Dave for a while and have watched many of their Youtube videos. I'm not a libertarian my self but I do agree with a lot of their there thoughts. I've made an effort to try to get the word out of open carry here in Michigan by started a Youtube channel but so far have been unable to upload much video to it because there just hasnt been much available yet. The link is: http://www.youtube.com/opencarryMI
I got the idea watching videos posted by another open carry'er in NH who is /opencarryNH ..

 

[KBCraig]

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error wrote:

I was just tipped off to the existence of this thread

 

[T Vance]

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[neil]

IKEA hates you

T Vance wrote:
Sent via http://info.ikea-usa.com/Contact/ :

I request that you remove my address from your mailing list.

address

The reason is because of an incident at your Canton, MI store on 9/12/09. Management called the police on two law-abiding customers exercising their right to self-defense by lawfully and peacefully bearing a firearm in a holster. This is legal in the state of Michigan, and many other states. The man and his companion were rudely yelled at, as they were leaving the store at the order of police, that they were not welcome in the store and to not come back ever again.

Most stores and businesses in the U.S. do follow the laws in the states that allow citizens to bear firearms. Stores that do not and are openly hostile to people lawfully bearing firearms, ensuring criminals can safely run rampant, will not be getting my business, as I do not feel safe inside them.

Since this is the current policy at IKEA, according to Neil at the IKEA Customer Care Center, I will not be spending my money at any of your stores in the future unless this policy changes and is made public, or I get it in writing that bearing firearms is not prohibited in any of your store locations, where not prohibited by law.

I will also be informing my friends and family members of this policy of endangering law-abiding citizens your company has in place.

I know this is years old, but it's Neil from IKEA Customer Care. Just wanted to say IKEA hates you and your rights.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

I know this is years old, but it's Neil from IKEA Customer Care. Just wanted to say IKEA hates you and your rights.

Thanks for dropping by Neil.

You might be surprised, but us knuckle-dragging, violent, gun toting neanderthals actually managed to scrounge up enough brainpower to deduce that one all by ourselves. I know we should certainly be disappointed that we are so looked-down-upon by the world leader in furniture-that-breaks-as-soon-as-you-try-and-move-it, the company with the most original name in corporate history. I know too that we should be jumping at the opportunity to take advice about how to run our country from the company that can't make a reasonable blueprint for a retail location, let-alone a successful world superpower. However we haven't even gotten far enough to piece that together, since allen wrenches confuse and frighten us and the cave-drawings in your instruction manuals seem to imply that you pray to a different fire-god than ours.

So, until you get shot to death in a gun free zone such as the one you claim to work for because you refuse to take responsibility for your own safety, we will continue being happy, free people due to our rights and freedoms, and you can continue working for a company who is only allowed to make money in this country due to those same rights and freedoms.

P.S.: I doubt you actually work for IKEA, but its really kind of irrelevant.