NY Trooper who fatally shot driver acted in self-defense

[TipsyMcStagger]

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Hillmann wrote:

I think 357 has some good points.

We could go back to a common law system where there has to be a victim for there to be a crime. And if someone decides to be an outlaw that is fine but the court won't protect them if they become a victim in the future.

And by doing that we could remove most of thelaws from the books. And it wouldn't cause anarchy.

exactly...

how ridiculous is it to hurt or kill someone who hasn't hurt anyone else? who is the real criminal in this situation? its the person doing the hurting.

just because the thugs are government thugs... doesn't make them any less thuggish.

by the time people wake up... it will be too late... its probably already too late. we will never get our freedom back save a catastrophic event... which in that case we'll probably live under an oligarchy

 

[Hillmann]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

Hillmann wrote:

I think 357 has some good points.

We could go back to a common law system where there has to be a victim for there to be a crime. And if someone decides to be an outlaw that is fine but the court won't protect them if they become a victim in the future.

And by doing that we could remove most of thelaws from the books. And it wouldn't cause anarchy.

exactly...

how ridiculous is it to hurt or kill someone who hasn't hurt anyone else? who is the real criminal in this situation? its the person doing the hurting.

just because the thugs are government thugs... doesn't make them any less thuggish.

by the time people wake up... it will be too late... its probably already too late. we will never get our freedom back save a catastrophic event... which in that case we'll probably live under an oligarchy

I think the simularitys between this situation and the one posted by Hankt about the purse snatching are kind of intresting. One will become a hero the other a fellon. I am not dissagreeing with eather, I am just pointing out that when a civilian chases a bad guy who commited an actual crime whare there was an actual victim he is a vigalanti and soon to be fellon, and when a cop chases some down for committing a moving violation that hurt no one he is a hero doing his job.

 

[N6ATF]

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Kenosis wrote:

I used google before I posted the last comment, but could find no such statistics to defend your flagrant assertion. I wanted to see if you could provide them, because you seem to honestly believe that they are true.

Instead of hundreds of thousands, try on the order of less than 500 per year.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/justify.htm

If my math is correct on http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/justifytab.htm, there were 11,080 justifiable homicides by police between 1976-2005 (30 years, average 369 per year) - with seemingly no correlation to population increase.

The first city to establish police service was Boston, in 1838. So if the assumption is that police have on average (derived from the 30 year sample) killed 369 per year since 1838, the number would be 63,099.

Generally, the number of justifiable homicides committed by police exceeded the number committed by citizens.

:cuss:

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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N6ATF wrote:

Kenosis wrote:

I used google before I posted the last comment, but could find no such statistics to defend your flagrant assertion. I wanted to see if you could provide them, because you seem to honestly believe that they are true.

Instead of hundreds of thousands, try on the order of less than 500 per year.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/justify.htm

If my math is correct on http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/justifytab.htm, there were 11,080 justifiable homicides by police between 1976-2005 (30 years, average 369 per year) - with seemingly no correlation to population increase.

The first city to establish police service was Boston, in 1838. So if the assumption is that police have on average (derived from the 30 year sample) killed 369 per year since 1838, the number would be 63,099.

Generally, the number of justifiable homicides committed by police exceeded the number committed by citizens.

:cuss:

and I add...

that i never said justifiable homicides either, all police killings where the person was either innocent, not a threat to anyone, being arrested for a victimless crime, wrong person, collateral damage, etc...

i'd wager its in the millions of people who have been killed in the united states who has never hurt anyone else, just the drug people alone who are killed when they resist unconstitutional thuggery of the govt.

 

[Carnivore]

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I must be living my life like a Saint, or I'm living in the most relaxed community in America..

OR there's a lot of members on here that push the Common sense/ respect for their surroundings and the people that will be affected by their actions Threshold.

I'm definitely no saint, and my locale has it's problems, and I do practically anything I want, and maybe a couple of things that would make the preacher/cop cringe. But I don't have any of the problems from LEO's that I read about on here.. YEA I've met a couple of Meat Heads in Uniform in my years, but I think the majority of folks that have run in after run in with the law are problem citizens, and if you can't manage yourself maturely, then the powers that be are more than willing to ablige you and see you through your Brain SH@&sSo many people bring unnecessary attention to themselves.. Why is that??Because their STUPID !!:banghead:

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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:banghead:

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote: exactly, no argument, only emotions... just like a liberal, except you want the freedom to carry a gun... but no freedom for anyone else!

I don't know what your talking about. I want my freedom...correct. You can carry whatever kind of gun, knife, artillary piece you like. Tell the government to piss off, write books about secret conspiracies, start a jihad against the police. I couldn't care less. Youwill still bewearing a tinfoil hat.Do whatever you like between now and when you emigrate to Spain, France, or whereve you will feel more free. Do these countries accept people with your skill set... what was itagain?

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote: exactly, no argument, only emotions... just like a liberal, except you want the freedom to carry a gun... but no freedom for anyone else!

I don't know what your talking about. I want my freedom...correct. You can carry whatever kind of gun, knife, artillary piece you like. Tell the government to piss off, write books about secret conspiracies, start a jihad against the police. I couldn't care less. Youwill still bewearing a tinfoil hat.Do whatever you like between now and when you emigrate to Spain, France, or whereve you will feel more free. Do these countries accept people with your skill set... what was itagain?

are you always this gullible and/or naive? i'm not 357 and i'm not moving anywhere.

you are just like a liberal... you love the cops and your false idol politicians... as long as they are hurting people you don't like...

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote: exactly, no argument, only emotions... just like a liberal, except you want the freedom to carry a gun... but no freedom for anyone else!

I don't know what your talking about. I want my freedom...correct. You can carry whatever kind of gun, knife, artillary piece you like. Tell the government to piss off, write books about secret conspiracies, start a jihad against the police. I couldn't care less. Youwill still bewearing a tinfoil hat.Do whatever you like between now and when you emigrate to Spain, France, or whereve you will feel more free. Do these countries accept people with your skill set... what was itagain?

are you always this gullible and/or naive? i'm not 357 and i'm not moving anywhere.

you are just like a liberal... you love the cops and your false idol politicians... as long as they are hurting people you don't like...

Whatever you say. Do you put tinfoil under the headliner of your car so the police scanners can't get to you?

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote: exactly, no argument, only emotions... just like a liberal, except you want the freedom to carry a gun... but no freedom for anyone else!

I don't know what your talking about. I want my freedom...correct. You can carry whatever kind of gun, knife, artillary piece you like. Tell the government to piss off, write books about secret conspiracies, start a jihad against the police. I couldn't care less. Youwill still bewearing a tinfoil hat.Do whatever you like between now and when you emigrate to Spain, France, or whereve you will feel more free. Do these countries accept people with your skill set... what was itagain?

are you always this gullible and/or naive? i'm not 357 and i'm not moving anywhere.

you are just like a liberal... you love the cops and your false idol politicians... as long as they are hurting people you don't like...

Whatever you say. Do you put tinfoil under the headliner of your car so the police scanners can't get to you?

I certainly do!

its too bad that fellow who was shot in the back in handcuffs on the bart train in san fran sicko wasn't wearing his tinfoil hat! he would've been alright if he just would've remembered it that day!

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote: exactly, no argument, only emotions... just like a liberal, except you want the freedom to carry a gun... but no freedom for anyone else!

I don't know what your talking about. I want my freedom...correct. You can carry whatever kind of gun, knife, artillary piece you like. Tell the government to piss off, write books about secret conspiracies, start a jihad against the police. I couldn't care less. Youwill still bewearing a tinfoil hat.Do whatever you like between now and when you emigrate to Spain, France, or whereve you will feel more free. Do these countries accept people with your skill set... what was itagain?

are you always this gullible and/or naive? i'm not 357 and i'm not moving anywhere.

you are just like a liberal... you love the cops and your false idol politicians... as long as they are hurting people you don't like...

Whatever you say. Do you put tinfoil under the headliner of your car so the police scanners can't get to you?

I certainly do!

its too bad that fellow who was shot in the back in handcuffs on the bart train in san fran sicko wasn't wearing his tinfoil hat! he would've been alright if he just would've remembered it that day!

Right on man! If only we could find a way to interceptthe communications originating at thenational C.A.P. headquarters. I think it would be kind of like breaking into the broadcast network in thatSchwarzenegger movie, RunningMan. Hey wait, you don't think that's why he got "elected" as theGovenator do you???

Anyway, when they send out the memo instructing an officer to "find an innocent person and execute them", we could replace that message with "go find Ozark Mountain Man, take him to the bank machineand withdraw $500 from your personal account and give it to him."

You'd be rich.:uhoh:

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

until they make hunting illegal, cops would only be doing their job when they hauled you away for hunting right? they would be heroes! just doin' mah job sir! hey and if they jumped the gun and put 20 rounds into you cause you had a rifle in your hand, ehh no biggie, officer safety right... they get to see their family... you don't... criminal.

or is your line in the sand hunting? or would you accept that hunting is now illegal and therefore wrong...?

or will you say, nahhhh hunting will never be illegal blah blah... you can't be that naive... can you?

or will you ignore this post because you know you're wrong?

or will you post another picture of a guy wearing a tinfoil hat?

what will you doooooooooooo :celebrate

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

Ostriches don't put their head in the sand. It's a myth.

until they make hunting illegal, cops would only be doing their job when they hauled you away for hunting right? they would be heroes! just doin' mah job sir! hey and if they jumped the gun and put 20 rounds into you cause you had a rifle in your hand, ehh no biggie, officer safety right... they get to see their family... you don't... criminal.

So, in your world, cops haul people away for hunting now?At least, "until they make it illegal". What happens after they make it illegal? How are cops "doing their job" be getting involved in hunting now?

or will you say, nahhhh hunting will never be illegal blah blah... you can't be that naive... can you?

So, what are you doing to prevent them from making it illegal? Do you have some petitions we can sign, or are you organizing any rallies we can attend?

Aren't you worried about the cops showing up tonight and blowing up your house to keep their conspiracy a secret?

It sounds like you need some sleep. I'm off to the basement where I sleep under a big lead shield so they can't read my thoughts. Catch ya in the morning, unless they get into mydreams and make mekill myself.

As a side note, this thread will probably be locked soon, but why don't you start a fresh one stating your plan to keep us all free and liberty maxed. At least the part of the plan that's different than posting your nonsense on here.

 

[Tomahawk]

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HankT wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

HankT wrote:

I carry a gun every day

Maybe I missed a thread somewhere, but I think that's the first time I've ever heard you say you carry, Hank.

Thawk, I've said it several times. But it does not surprise me that you wouldn't notice or remember it. Simplism is much more enticing for certain people....and I think you be one of dem....




Tomahawk wrote:

But since you won't admit where you actually live, I guess it makes no sense to ask you if and how you managed to get a New Jersey permit.

Huh? What are you talking about? Make some sense, man.

You can do it, Thawk. Really, you can do it. But you have to think. You know, cogitate...

Oh darn. Guess you got me, Hank. You once again managed to argue without answering a simple question.

When, oh when, will I learn!

We love you Hank. OCDO's mascot.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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check out the nazi police "just doing their job" hauling away people who don't agree with obongo...

look at the guy at the end smack off the hat of one of the guys...

its quite rightly that obongo repeats "what kind of country you want" over and over while they are being dragged out.

scary... but hey, those cops... just doin there job... only following orders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBgBh90t7K0

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

Ostriches don't put their head in the sand. It's a myth.

until they make hunting illegal, cops would only be doing their job when they hauled you away for hunting right? they would be heroes! just doin' mah job sir! hey and if they jumped the gun and put 20 rounds into you cause you had a rifle in your hand, ehh no biggie, officer safety right... they get to see their family... you don't... criminal.

So, in your world, cops haul people away for hunting now?At least, "until they make it illegal". What happens after they make it illegal? How are cops "doing their job" be getting involved in hunting now?

or will you say, nahhhh hunting will never be illegal blah blah... you can't be that naive... can you?

So, what are you doing to prevent them from making it illegal? Do you have some petitions we can sign, or are you organizing any rallies we can attend?

Aren't you worried about the cops showing up tonight and blowing up your house to keep their conspiracy a secret?

It sounds like you need some sleep. I'm off to the basement where I sleep under a big lead shield so they can't read my thoughts. Catch ya in the morning, unless they get into mydreams and make mekill myself.

As a side note, this thread will probably be locked soon, but why don't you start a fresh one stating your plan to keep us all free and liberty maxed. At least the part of the plan that's different than posting your nonsense on here.

you.... seriously... can't you read? IF/WHEN they make hunting illegal... because they will one day... your cop friends will enforce it... you'll be a criminal... but hey... its ok... those cops need a paycheck... just doin' their job...

Are you suggesting that we should have to make signs and have a protest or sign a petition to keep all of our liberties? every single one of them? and if we don't eh... we must not have cared about that... yea lets have a national movement FOR EVERY SINGLE LIBERTY WE ENJOY.

i'm not talking about any conspiracy... this is happening. every new law that is passed you lose a bit of freedom... you've already accepted that you can only hunt for a couple weeks a year... you've accepted that your state owns all the animals around you... and could cut you off from them at any moment for any reason...

people like you who try to paint anyone worried about all the freedoms we're losing as crazy are selling yourselves out... its like you have a mental block because you don't want to believe your country sucks, well it does, our country has gone to @#$%, it may be the best in the world... but it still sucks...

you are a clown.

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

Ostriches don't put their head in the sand. It's a myth.

until they make hunting illegal, cops would only be doing their job when they hauled you away for hunting right? they would be heroes! just doin' mah job sir! hey and if they jumped the gun and put 20 rounds into you cause you had a rifle in your hand, ehh no biggie, officer safety right... they get to see their family... you don't... criminal.

So, in your world, cops haul people away for hunting now?At least, "until they make it illegal". What happens after they make it illegal? How are cops "doing their job" be getting involved in hunting now?

or will you say, nahhhh hunting will never be illegal blah blah... you can't be that naive... can you?

So, what are you doing to prevent them from making it illegal? Do you have some petitions we can sign, or are you organizing any rallies we can attend?

Aren't you worried about the cops showing up tonight and blowing up your house to keep their conspiracy a secret?

It sounds like you need some sleep. I'm off to the basement where I sleep under a big lead shield so they can't read my thoughts. Catch ya in the morning, unless they get into mydreams and make mekill myself.

As a side note, this thread will probably be locked soon, but why don't you start a fresh one stating your plan to keep us all free and liberty maxed. At least the part of the plan that's different than posting your nonsense on here.

you.... seriously... can't you read? IF/WHEN they make hunting illegal... because they will one day... your cop friends will enforce it... you'll be a criminal... but hey... its ok... those cops need a paycheck... just doin' their job...

Are you suggesting that we should have to make signs and have a protest or sign a petition to keep all of our liberties? every single one of them? and if we don't eh... we must not have cared about that... yea lets have a national movement FOR EVERY SINGLE LIBERTY WE ENJOY.

i'm not talking about any conspiracy... this is happening. every new law that is passed you lose a bit of freedom... you've already accepted that you can only hunt for a couple weeks a year... you've accepted that your state owns all the animals around you... and could cut you off from them at any moment for any reason...

people like you who try to paint anyone worried about all the freedoms we're losing as crazy are selling yourselves out... its like you have a mental block because you don't want to believe your country sucks, well it does, our country has gone to @#$%, it may be the best in the world... but it still sucks...

you are a clown.

Nope. You can't type. You didn't type IF/WHEN, you typed UNTIL. Then ranted that the cops are talking people away because they were hunting. You are the clown.

So, back to the unanswered question, what are you doing about all this? What have you been doing up UNTIL your joining this site four whole days ago?

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

buster81 wrote:

OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

Ostriches don't put their head in the sand. It's a myth.

until they make hunting illegal, cops would only be doing their job when they hauled you away for hunting right? they would be heroes! just doin' mah job sir! hey and if they jumped the gun and put 20 rounds into you cause you had a rifle in your hand, ehh no biggie, officer safety right... they get to see their family... you don't... criminal.

So, in your world, cops haul people away for hunting now?At least, "until they make it illegal". What happens after they make it illegal? How are cops "doing their job" be getting involved in hunting now?

or will you say, nahhhh hunting will never be illegal blah blah... you can't be that naive... can you?

So, what are you doing to prevent them from making it illegal? Do you have some petitions we can sign, or are you organizing any rallies we can attend?

Aren't you worried about the cops showing up tonight and blowing up your house to keep their conspiracy a secret?

It sounds like you need some sleep. I'm off to the basement where I sleep under a big lead shield so they can't read my thoughts. Catch ya in the morning, unless they get into mydreams and make mekill myself.

As a side note, this thread will probably be locked soon, but why don't you start a fresh one stating your plan to keep us all free and liberty maxed. At least the part of the plan that's different than posting your nonsense on here.

you.... seriously... can't you read? IF/WHEN they make hunting illegal... because they will one day... your cop friends will enforce it... you'll be a criminal... but hey... its ok... those cops need a paycheck... just doin' their job...

Are you suggesting that we should have to make signs and have a protest or sign a petition to keep all of our liberties? every single one of them? and if we don't eh... we must not have cared about that... yea lets have a national movement FOR EVERY SINGLE LIBERTY WE ENJOY.

i'm not talking about any conspiracy... this is happening. every new law that is passed you lose a bit of freedom... you've already accepted that you can only hunt for a couple weeks a year... you've accepted that your state owns all the animals around you... and could cut you off from them at any moment for any reason...

people like you who try to paint anyone worried about all the freedoms we're losing as crazy are selling yourselves out... its like you have a mental block because you don't want to believe your country sucks, well it does, our country has gone to @#$%, it may be the best in the world... but it still sucks...

you are a clown.

Nope. You can't type. You didn't type IF/WHEN, you typed UNTIL. Then ranted that the cops are talking people away because they were hunting. You are the clown.

So, back to the unanswered question, what are you doing about all this? What have you been doing up UNTIL your joining this site four whole days ago?

you have very poor reading comprehension. public schools? yea...

take the post in context

yea you're funny. keep you head in the sand...

until they make hunting illegal,...

keep your head in the sand until they make hunting illegal. meaning you will wake up and realize you're a douche canoe statist.

yea its not in perfect term paper form. but... you should be able to understand.


Lets make it really simple for you.

WHEN they make hunting illegal. Will you still support LEOs who enforce that law... when they make semi auto handguns illegal... will you still support LEOs who enforce that?

what is your line in the sand? do you have one? do you blindly follow your false idol costumed government authority figures?

 

[buster81]

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OzarkMountainDaredevil wrote:

snip

My reading comprehension is perfect. Your thought formation is sadly lacking. You are starting to make some sense, but it's taken far too long.

Should I be able to drive without a license? Yes

Should I be able to get married without a license? Yes

Should I be able to hunt without a license, 365 days a year? Yes

Should making a u-turn be illegal? No

Should the police enter into a high speed chaseto catch someone who made a turn, illegal or otherwise? No

Should a person beat a cop with a baton because he was about to get a ticket? No

Should I be able to Open Carry a firearm, 365 days a year, in all 50 states, everywhereI'm legally able to go? Yes. That is the point of this forum. If you were able to think beyond your basement, you would have seen that the OP was a post by Hank in support of his postulate, which some here believe is overstating the obvious, and incomplete as it doesn't take into account any disparity of force. This particular case, doesn't support his postulate as the event was finished by the guy getting shot.

It's your position that this guy should never have been put in that situation. Ok. I don't disagree. However, when he assaulted a police officer, he entered into a whole new world. I don't think you are going to find many here who will support violence against the police. I could be wrong.I suggest you go to a site called copwatch.com, or perhaps copsbreakingthelaw.com. Theymight be a better place for you to vent. You aren't Jimmy Justice are you?

Now, in your best term paper form, answer my question...What have you been doing to fix the giant mess you live in, upuntil you joined this forum four days ago?

And here is a tidbit of knowledge that you may be lacking. When a member of this forum has an interaction with the general public, sometimes they askthemcome to this site for information. When those people come across a posting like your first few which call the police pirates, and suggest some level of support for beating a pirate with his own baton, they run back to their pre-planned communities and tell their neighbors at their kids soccer games that those open-carriers are a bunch of moon bats, and that stronger anti-gun laws are required. That doesn't seem to do us any good, but I could be wrong.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

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if we are in agreement what are we arguing about? i already said a person in their right mind would not attack a pirate for a traffic ticket...

why do you want a list what "what i do" to change the way our country is? as if this was some type of requirement to be free you have to do _______________.

i guess the biggest thing i do is troll internet forums and cause a huge ruckus and get banned... (that was sarcasm just if you missed it)

telling other people about freedom if the biggest thing you can do, then vote freedom first i suppose.

oh and one more thing i do is design and manufacture tin foil hats for poor inner city people


what do you do to help the cause of freedom? certainly excusing police and enabling them is not helping