Rich, I will respectfully disagree. This thread is about a bad encounter with LEO due to OC. Seems like a perfect time to talk about how to minimize the chances of having this occurr.
My analysis of the BOP statute lands it firmly in the "bad charge" category for mere OC. I prefer OC. I also understand that you will RARELY come out on the winning end of a discussion with a police officer...there are too many egos and too many public image concerns to counsel individuals to "stand up for their rights" in front of police/public...not until someone gets a straight answer on what constitutes "suitability." Even so, it's not worth the expense of hiring an attorney or enduring the potential incidental harms (job loss, google fame anyone?) that come with this course of action. the court of public opinion isn't going to be on your side, and many concealed carriers won't be, either. as OC as I am, and do, there's more to the calculation than simple "statute + constitution", the BFPE still has enough discretion to make a case-by-case determination and they are backlogged enough so you will be without your rights until they get to you.
i'm with you guys in spirit, but I think the "battleground" is not sufficiently defined for people to go "standing up for their rights" in police encounters.
I stand by my earlier comment regarding children, anybody who says that aspect doesn't matter hasn't dealt with judges in this state...and they certainly haven't been paying attention to the fact that the recent legislation was passed under the mantle of "saving the children." The landscape has changed, despite what our collective legal minds might think/conclude. Act according to the reality, not the theory and you should be fine.
I am not advising anyone to "knuckle under" and go 100% concealed, it's slower, less comfortable and there are other concerns that make OC preferable...I am merely suggesting that some common sense and flexibility will go a long way. An understanding of the statutes involved is KEY for anyone who intends to OC.
Has anyone here had experience with "going silent" after providing ID/Permit to an officer? It would seem to me to be the safest bet as the BOP statute requires "intent". Any sort of conversation, answering questions, etc can only be used AGAINST you.
Anyways guys, I hope you all continue to OC safely and without hassle. I understand the full-OC camp, I just think that it has the potential to go sideways in a big way for individuals who do not understand what's in play here. Suitability is NOT legally defined by any reliable measure...the BFPE has a great deal of sway (and will have more anti-gun members shortly, if not already). There is a risk here that you will not "skate to the win" unless it is crystal clear (and proven) that you exercised discretion and caution in deciding when/where to OC.
i'm just SHARING my OPINION here...if you disagree, fine, that's the spice of life. just remember we are all on the same team here.
My analysis of the BOP statute lands it firmly in the "bad charge" category for mere OC. I prefer OC. I also understand that you will RARELY come out on the winning end of a discussion with a police officer...there are too many egos and too many public image concerns to counsel individuals to "stand up for their rights" in front of police/public...not until someone gets a straight answer on what constitutes "suitability." Even so, it's not worth the expense of hiring an attorney or enduring the potential incidental harms (job loss, google fame anyone?) that come with this course of action. the court of public opinion isn't going to be on your side, and many concealed carriers won't be, either. as OC as I am, and do, there's more to the calculation than simple "statute + constitution", the BFPE still has enough discretion to make a case-by-case determination and they are backlogged enough so you will be without your rights until they get to you.
i'm with you guys in spirit, but I think the "battleground" is not sufficiently defined for people to go "standing up for their rights" in police encounters.
I stand by my earlier comment regarding children, anybody who says that aspect doesn't matter hasn't dealt with judges in this state...and they certainly haven't been paying attention to the fact that the recent legislation was passed under the mantle of "saving the children." The landscape has changed, despite what our collective legal minds might think/conclude. Act according to the reality, not the theory and you should be fine.
I am not advising anyone to "knuckle under" and go 100% concealed, it's slower, less comfortable and there are other concerns that make OC preferable...I am merely suggesting that some common sense and flexibility will go a long way. An understanding of the statutes involved is KEY for anyone who intends to OC.
Has anyone here had experience with "going silent" after providing ID/Permit to an officer? It would seem to me to be the safest bet as the BOP statute requires "intent". Any sort of conversation, answering questions, etc can only be used AGAINST you.
Anyways guys, I hope you all continue to OC safely and without hassle. I understand the full-OC camp, I just think that it has the potential to go sideways in a big way for individuals who do not understand what's in play here. Suitability is NOT legally defined by any reliable measure...the BFPE has a great deal of sway (and will have more anti-gun members shortly, if not already). There is a risk here that you will not "skate to the win" unless it is crystal clear (and proven) that you exercised discretion and caution in deciding when/where to OC.
i'm just SHARING my OPINION here...if you disagree, fine, that's the spice of life. just remember we are all on the same team here.
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