imported post
Mike wrote:
Richard6218 wrote:
Section 9.41.050
Carrying Firearms
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
This sub-section is important -
the handgun need not be loaded to make it a crime to carry one concealed on her person - generally, in most states any concealed handgun within arms reach of person while in her vehicle is considered concealed on or about her person and illegal unless one possesses a license to conceal.
I think a lot of people reading the thread above might erroneously conclude that they can carry say an encased unloaded handgun inside their vehcile without a license.
That may be the case in VA, but in WA. it is
not.
In WA. you can carry an encased, unloaded handgun in your vehicle and it is
not going to be considered a violation of the "concealed" pistol laws. RCW 9.41.050 clearly says "ON" your person and does not include anything to expand that to include "near, around, or within reach". Uur concealed pistol law specifically addresses a concealed pistol being carried by a person.
There is no law in WA. (that I am aware of) that specifies
where in a vehicle the gun should be placed. The laws only specify
how they are to be carried (unloaded and in an opaque case or secure wrapper).
mmartinek wrote:
I guess my next question then, is it considered concealed to have it in the vehicle? As I understand it now, it is legal to have an unloaded firearm in the vehicle with you when you're wearing it. However, is the vehicle considered to be a form of concealment? If that is the case, a concealed carry permit would be required to be able to use your vehicle at all.. and I guess that's my primary concern. I do not have a permit to conceal yet, and my concern is primarily the "gotcha" with the vehicle. I've already figured out the other ones from posts and reading around on the net for little "gotchas", such as jackets and coats during winter.
No, for the purpose of the concealed carry law, the vehicle is not considered to be a concealment. The restriction has to do with a
person carrying a gun.
M1Gunr wrote
Mike, In the state of Washington you would be correct.
See section (2)(a)
A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
No, in the state of WA. he is IN-correct. The section you cite talks about a LOADED firearm. Mike is suggesting carrying an UN-loaded firearm in a vehicle without a permit would be illegal, because it could be considered "concealed". That is NOT the case.
There are no special restriction or concerns about carrying a gun in your vehicle if it is unloaded and encased. In fact, that is the required method of carrying a gun in your vehicle if you do not have a CPL. So carrying it as prescribed is not considered "concealed".
The relevant RCW's are:
RCW 9.41.050 -Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(non-relevant text omitted)
This clearly states a weapon is concealed when it is "ON" your person. The only restrictions regarding vehicles are to restrict a LOADED pistol in a vehicle to those with a CPL.
While that may still leave it up to some interpretation, it is completely cleared up by the following:
RCW 9.41.060 -Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper
(non-relevant text omitted)
So if you are carrying an UNLOADED pistol in a case, you
cannot be accused of carrying a concealed pistol. This applies equally to walking down the street or riding in ANY vehicle since there is nothing in the law that restricts the "where" part of the question.
The concern is the "how".
If it is unloaded and in an opaque case or secure wrapper, it is
not considered "concealed" for the purposes of being a "Concealed pistol", and you cannot be charged under 9.41.050 in such a case.
As far as what is considered "loaded", the previous poster got it right. Basically if there is a bullet anywhere
IN the gun, it is considered loaded. Even if it is backwards or the wrong caliber.
Here is another scenario...
I occasionally carry a "Murse" or "Man-bag", essentially a small purse-like satchel with my check book, cell phone, credit cards, etc. It also has a compartment with a built in holster for a gun. Since I have a CPL, I can legally carry a loaded gun in this bag, either in public or in my vehicle. While some might split hairs about whether the gun in a bag carried by me is "on" my person or not, it really doesn't matter since your CPL allows you to carry a concealed LOADED pistol, but doesn't require it actually be ON your person.
The exact same bag also meets the definition of an "opaque case" (black leather), so if the gun inside is UN-loaded, I can carry it in the car, on the bus, walking down the street, or whatever/wherever.
While the gun certainly is concealed from view, since it is UN-loaded and in an "opaque case", 9.41.050 does
not apply.
Kind of confusing and doesn't make a lot of sense, but that is the way it works in this state. Just think how confusing things would get without our strong pre-emption law!