Once obama gets his Health care plan, Guns are NEXT

[R a Z o R]

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smoking357 wrote:

Phoenixphire wrote:

I know that I personally subscribe to that policy, because at the end of the day, the right to keep and bear arms is the right that protects all the others.

I have the right to be free from governmental intimidation and oppression, yet the cops have no difficulty attacking me, intimidating me and lying about while the vast body of gun owners cheer them on and admonish me to restrain my "attitude."

On this and another gun forum, I had gun owners trying to get me arrested and hoping that I would be arrested for arguing that Florida gun owners have an automatic right to CWP approval. I need the ACLU to defend me from gun owners.

Hope you are enjoying the manifested phenomena you are creating . Me , I creat a police state that works for the law abiding U.S. citizens .

Quess you can call me . . . Co-Boss .

 

[AWDstylez]

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R a Z o R wrote:

Hope you are enjoying the manifested phenomena you are creating . Me , I creat a police state that works for the law abiding U.S. citizens .

Quess you can call me . . . Co-Boss .

Lasted I checked, the system is supposed to work for both law-abiding and non-law-abiding. If it doesn't, you're someone else's manifested opinion (a law) away from being "not law-abiding" and losing your freedom.


That's the danger of the neo-con, "conservative," pseudo-libertarian gun owners - they want freedom... for people like them.

 

[Chaingun81]

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smoking357 wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

At the end of the day, if everything else is gone, the guns we own will determine whether we are free men or subjects of a tyrannical government.

We're not free, now, and I have plenty of guns.

I just read about a rapper who was arrested for writing a rap song about the cops, and the cops posted his lyrics to their web site.

Oh, yeah, how many of you "freedom lovers" support workplace drug testing?

With the exception of guns, gun owners aren't strong freedom advocates.

How does the ACLU count to ten?

1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

How do gun owners count to ten?

2

Seriously, what is your problem? What mysterious freedom are you talking about? I don't think you are talking about freedom, I think you mean anarchy. And that is just silly.

I've been in a good number of countries both in Europe and Asia and while US certainly has some issues with limitations of freedom to deal with, these limitations are nothing compared to other nations. You haven't seen a real police state where police is ACTUALLY above the law, I have.

Europe is NOT more free than US, unless you consider the right to smoke dope and public and legally have sex with a transsexual whore a cornerstone of freedom...

 

[Statesman]

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AWDstylez wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

Once they sufficiently disarm us, we can be easily run over roughshod by the government thugs

You mean exactly like they've been doing for 30 years?

Worse, like the governments of Iran, and China. All that has to happen is complete disarmament, and a change in federal, state, and local police forces, all of which the latter will have been fully federalized by that time), whereby good police forces are fired if they do not comply with tyrannical orders, and unethical, immoral tyrants are put in their place.

I acknowledge this is a worst case scenario, but that's what the 2nd amendment is in place to prevent.

 

[Chaingun81]

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AWDstylez wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

Hope you are enjoying the manifested phenomena you are creating . Me , I creat a police state that works for the law abiding U.S. citizens .

Quess you can call me . . . Co-Boss .

Lasted I checked, the system is supposed to work for both law-abiding and non-law-abiding. If it doesn't, you're someone else's manifested opinion (a law) away from being "not law-abiding" and losing your freedom.

Right problem, wrong solution. The problem is that the law in fact has become an opnion, especially with criminalizing behavoir that doesn't create a victim.

Only if they kept it simple - definecrimes as things that are truly criminal - murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc . Then the non-law-abiding would be an easily definable group of people who knowingly got themselves into being crminalsandsystem wouldn't have to work for them.

Instead nowyou can become a criminal for say carrying your otherwise legal gunacross an invisible border of a National Park or a 1000 feet around a school zone, or hiring a prostitute or running untaxed liquor or a bunch of other things that shouldn't be criminal in the first place...

 

[Skeptic]

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NavyLT wrote:

Hyperactive imagination feeding paranoia.

Indeed. You should probably report this directly to the White House as they asked for people to do today on the White House Website - posted by the White House Director of New Media Macon Phillips himself.

They will take care of all these paranoid internet rumors directly, and you will probably be richly rewarded, no doubt.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.

All this paranoia. Nothing to see here at all. Report all paranoids so they can be dealt with.

 

[smoking357]

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Chaingun81 wrote:

Seriously, what is your problem? What mysterious freedom are you talking about? I don't think you are talking about freedom, I think you mean anarchy. And that is just silly.

What you call "anarchy" is a world in which people living their lives without intruding on others. Your fear of anarchy, actions uncontrolled by you, is a police state for the rest of us.

I've been in a good number of countries both in Europe and Asia and while US certainly has some issues with limitations of freedom to deal with, these limitations are nothing compared to other nations. You haven't seen a real police state where police is ACTUALLY above the law, I have.

Hey, we're better than Burma! Hooray! Let's make a bumper sticker. "Let more freedom than Burma ring."

Europe is NOT more free than US, unless you consider the right to smoke dope and public and legally have sex with a transsexual whore a cornerstone of freedom...

Those are certainly a start.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson.

 

[AWDstylez]

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Statesman wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

Once they sufficiently disarm us, we can be easily run over roughshod by the government thugs

You mean exactly like they've been doing for 30 years?

Worse, like the governments of Iran, and China. All that has to happen is complete disarmament,

We'll get there without the disarmament. Look at how far we've come already. It's called a slippery slope. People didn't stand up before, they don't want to stand up now... why stand up when the next shoe falls, and when they don't stand up for that one... why bother with the next one... and the next one... and the next one...

 

[Chaingun81]

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smoking357 wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

Seriously, what is your problem? What mysterious freedom are you talking about? I don't think you are talking about freedom, I think you mean anarchy. And that is just silly.

What you call "anarchy" is a world in which people living their lives without intruding on others. Your fear of anarchy, actions uncontrolled by you, is a police state for the rest of us.

I've been in a good number of countries both in Europe and Asia and while US certainly has some issues with limitations of freedom to deal with, these limitations are nothing compared to other nations. You haven't seen a real police state where police is ACTUALLY above the law, I have.

Hey, we're better than Burma! Hooray! Let's make a bumper sticker. "Let more freedom than Burma ring."

Europe is NOT more free than US, unless you consider the right to smoke dope and public and legally have sex with a transsexual whore a cornerstone of freedom...

Those are certainly a start.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson.

You are either stupid or crazy. In either case it's pointless to argue with you.

 

[compmanio365]

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I don't believe in workplace drug testing, or drug laws, period. I don't believe in overarching state and federal government. I'm right there with you in saying that the less government we have, the more free we are. But I absolutely, completely disagree that getting rid of gun ownership is going to make us more free. It simply opens the door for those who have arms at that point to ensure their own power and keep the rest of us under the boot of oppression. To think that a disarmed populace is more free is delusion at best, tyranny at worst.

Oh, and if you think Europe is so great and their people are so free, why are they all crying for their gun rights back and complaining about the vast corruption in their government and legal system? No, the facts clearly state that the less armed the populace, the less free the people. To state otherwise is to ignore decades of empirical evidence for your own ends, whatever they may be.

 

[Chaingun81]

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compmanio365 wrote:

I don't believe in workplace drug testing, or drug laws, period. I don't believe in overarching state and federal government. I'm right there with you in saying that the less government we have, the more free we are. But I absolutely, completely disagree that getting rid of gun ownership is going to make us more free. It simply opens the door for those who have arms at that point to ensure their own power and keep the rest of us under the boot of oppression. To think that a disarmed populace is more free is delusion at best, tyranny at worst.

Oh, and if you think Europe is so great and their people are so free, why are they all crying for their gun rights back and complaining about the vast corruption in their government and legal system? No, the facts clearly state that the less armed the populace, the less free the people. To state otherwise is to ignore decades of empirical evidence for your own ends, whatever they may be.

+1

 

[R a Z o R]

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AWDstylez , why are people so mean spirited ?

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Chaingun81 wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

I hope your statements are not directed at me, I am a hardline, ultra conservative.

I had no idea you were even in this thread, nevermind me directing anything at you. Since you brought it up though... Congrats, you're part of the problem. I want nothing to do with anyone that self-identifies as a "hardline ultra conservative," or anykind of "conservative" for that matter.

There is a huge difference between an ignorant redneck and a person who isfiscally very conservative andwho is pro-personal freedom but pro-traditional values at the same time. The balance is the key. I'm self-identified as very conservative on some issue and very libertarian on others. My point is that let everyone do whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect others in a negative way. It's very hard to find this balance, but that's the key...

Oh yeah, I forgot to add REPUBLICAN to that...This country was originally created as a REPUBLIC people ( and to the republic for which it stands ) , NOT a democracy..our founding fathers had it correct, then the morons screwed it all up& now we have what we have & that is just a hollow shell of a joke for a country. That has way too many laws, Sickeningly over taxed it's people, with a no actual representation anywhere to be found, and now with a president that wants to turn this ONCE free country into a socialist, welfarestate, with FREE health care for all, but paid for by YOU& ME. Sheep are people that willingly accept those thingsthat could be changed& should be changed but are unwilling to act due to the fact that they are cowards.

 

[Statesman]

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R a Z o R wrote:

AWDstylez , why are people so mean spirited ?

Why don't they just check their police state street cameras? You know, the ones that were sold to the public to "manage traffic flow", and "catch red light running criminals". Oh, and when needed, they'll eventually be used to spy on people who have broken no laws. Who knows what they'll do when they find out who put up these EEEEVILL posters of Obama.

:quirky

 

[smoking357]

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Chaingun81 wrote:

You are either stupid or crazy. In either case it's pointless to argue with you.

"People who didnt go along with the Nazi regime were labeled as mentally defective. The NKVD did the
same thing in the Soviet Union, but on a much larger scale. Speak out against government = mentally incompetent.
And they usually were tortured there and stayed until they died. Concentration camps, but disguised as healthcare,
how convenient. "

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Chaingun81 wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

I don't believe in workplace drug testing, or drug laws, period. I don't believe in overarching state and federal government. I'm right there with you in saying that the less government we have, the more free we are. But I absolutely, completely disagree that getting rid of gun ownership is going to make us more free. It simply opens the door for those who have arms at that point to ensure their own power and keep the rest of us under the boot of oppression. To think that a disarmed populace is more free is delusion at best, tyranny at worst.

Oh, and if you think Europe is so great and their people are so free, why are they all crying for their gun rights back and complaining about the vast corruption in their government and legal system? No, the facts clearly state that the less armed the populace, the less free the people. To state otherwise is to ignore decades of empirical evidence for your own ends, whatever they may be.

+1

+ 2, right on

 

[Chaingun81]

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smoking357 wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

You are either stupid or crazy. In either case it's pointless to argue with you.

"People who didnt go along with the Nazi regime were labeled as mentally defective. The NKVD did the
same thing in the Soviet Union, but on a much larger scale. Speak out against government = mentally incompetent.
And they usually were tortured there and stayed until they died. Concentration camps, but disguised as healthcare,
how convenient. "

I'm well aware of the provided examples and I'm not pro-government the way it is nowby any means. But I think that botharguing for anarchy and complete absence of any rules as well as saying that Europe with their government micromanagement of everything is somehow more free that the USJUST because theydon't impose any moral values (whether it's good or bad is the wholeother debate)is insane.

 

[Washintonian_For_Liberty]

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Glock34 wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

I don't believe in workplace drug testing, or drug laws, period. I don't believe in overarching state and federal government. I'm right there with you in saying that the less government we have, the more free we are. But I absolutely, completely disagree that getting rid of gun ownership is going to make us more free. It simply opens the door for those who have arms at that point to ensure their own power and keep the rest of us under the boot of oppression. To think that a disarmed populace is more free is delusion at best, tyranny at worst.

Oh, and if you think Europe is so great and their people are so free, why are they all crying for their gun rights back and complaining about the vast corruption in their government and legal system? No, the facts clearly state that the less armed the populace, the less free the people. To state otherwise is to ignore decades of empirical evidence for your own ends, whatever they may be.

+1

+ 2, right on

+3, completely agree... but then again, when have liberals ever let pesky facts get in the way of their agenda?

 

[compmanio365]

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smoking357 wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

You are either stupid or crazy. In either case it's pointless to argue with you.

"People who didnt go along with the Nazi regime were labeled as mentally defective. The NKVD did the
same thing in the Soviet Union, but on a much larger scale. Speak out against government = mentally incompetent.
And they usually were tortured there and stayed until they died. Concentration camps, but disguised as healthcare,
how convenient. "

And all that was ONLY allowed to happen once the people were disarmed and no longer a threat to the people in power. Power gained by a enforced disparity of force. Our government is only bad now because of the vast apathy that people have let themselves sink into......if we maintained our diligence, we would be better off today. We really have nobody to blame but ourselves for our current state of affairs.

That being said, however, it does look like people are starting to wake up....gun ownership is at an all time high.....even the talk of actual rebellion if things don't start turning around is floating on the wind. Notice how the health care plan of Obama, one of the major things people were sold on during the election, is now fighting an uphill battle because people are starting to realize that it is an addition to our problems, not the answer.......the more guns people have, the more our government needs to watch it's step, lest it anger the populace to the point of rebellion. I truly believe the passage of this health care bill and other upcoming legislation will push us over the edge. If we can successfully fight that and keep it from passing....we may just overcome and prevail.

Now what chances does Europe have, being disarmed subjects, of overthrowing their tyrannical government? Slim to none. There is no fear of the citizens by the government.....and that's what we call tyranny, folks.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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compmanio365 wrote:

smoking357 wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

You are either stupid or crazy. In either case it's pointless to argue with you.

"People who didnt go along with the Nazi regime were labeled as mentally defective. The NKVD did the
same thing in the Soviet Union, but on a much larger scale. Speak out against government = mentally incompetent.
And they usually were tortured there and stayed until they died. Concentration camps, but disguised as healthcare,
how convenient. "

And all that was ONLY allowed to happen once the people were disarmed and no longer a threat to the people in power. Power gained by a enforced disparity of force. Our government is only bad now because of the vast apathy that people have let themselves sink into......if we maintained our diligence, we would be better off today. We really have nobody to blame but ourselves for our current state of affairs.

That being said, however, it does look like people are starting to wake up....gun ownership is at an all time high.....even the talk of actual rebellion if things don't start turning around is floating on the wind. Notice how the health care plan of Obama, one of the major things people were sold on during the election, is now fighting an uphill battle because people are starting to realize that it is an addition to our problems, not the answer.......the more guns people have, the more our government needs to watch it's step, lest it anger the populace to the point of rebellion. I truly believe the passage of this health care bill and other upcoming legislation will push us over the edge. If we can successfully fight that and keep it from passing....we may just overcome and prevail.

Now what chances does Europe have, being disarmed subjects, of overthrowing their tyrannical government? Slim to none. There is no fear of the citizens by the government.....and that's what we call tyranny, folks.

Very well said !!!!