Online CHP Course Declined in Albemarle County

[Sheriff]

imported post

Goliath wrote:

I was told the judge was busy and he would get to it when he got to it.

Once upon a time, a former judge was letting them pile up on desk. Supposedly, he was not real fond of the new word "shall" in the state code. A postal employee who was a former Navy Seal and former Secret Service had to call in a few favors in to get the ball rolling in Albemarle County.This was about 10 to 12 years ago and I don't recall all of the details. If anybody in the state of Virginia was qualified for a Concealed Handgun Permit, it was certainly this guy.


edit: TYPO

 

[TFred]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Goliath wrote:

I was told the judge was busy and he would get to it when he got to it.

Once upon a time, a former judge was letting them pile up on desk. Supposedly, he was not real fond of the new word "shall" in the state code. A postal employee who was a former Navy Seal and former Secret Service had to call in a few favors in to get the ball rolling in Albemarle County.This was about 10 to 12 years ago and I don't recall all of the details. If anybody in the state of Virginia was qualified for a Concealed Handgun Permit, it was certainly this guy.

Got me to thinking, in a perfect world, perhaps other than the 45 day time limit, there really shouldn't be any difference between a "may issue" and a "shall issue" law. Both have provisions to keep the CHP out of unqualified hands. However, when you think of it, "may issue" really has no other effect than to invite abuse of power. This probably tells us something about the judge in this story.

That would be an interesting study, to document abuses of power by those who are responsible for issuing permits in "may issue" states. Embarrassment may be a way to promote a change to "shall issue". One less place where the "good old boy" network lives.

TFred

 

[leprechaun117]

imported post

An update of sorts...

Friend B was issued his permit in 11 days by the City of Charlottesville.

Friend A is 65 days deep and counting...

 

[Mike]

imported post

leprechaun117 wrote:

An update of sorts...

Friend B was issued his permit in 11 days by the City of Charlottesville.

Friend A is 65 days deep and counting...

This post makes no sense - localities do not issue CHPs in Virginia. Curcuit courts do. What circuit court did A apply to? Why has he not filed suit against the Clerk fo Court for failure to issue the de facto CHP?

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

Mike wrote:

This post makes no sense - localities do not issue CHPs in Virginia. Curcuit courts do. What circuit court did A apply to? Why has he not filed suit against the Clerk fo Court for failure to issue the de facto CHP?

The City of Charlottesville is a small city located within and totally surrounded by the County of Albemarle. Each has a Circuit Court of course. And residents must apply in the jurisdiction in which they live, whether it be the city or the county. I think he is saying the city processed an application pretty swiftly, while the county applicant is the one still having trouble with his application and refusal, or whatever took place.

 

[leprechaun117]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

This post makes no sense - localities do not issue CHPs in Virginia.  Curcuit courts do.  What circuit court did A apply to?  Why has he not filed suit against the Clerk fo Court for failure to issue the de facto CHP?

The City of Charlottesville is a small city located within and totally surrounded by the County of  Albemarle.  Each has a Circuit Court of course.  And residents must apply in the jurisdiction in which they live, whether it be the city or the county.  I think he is saying the city processed an application pretty swiftly, while the county applicant is the one still having trouble with his application and refusal, or whatever took place.   

I don't see the confusion... Two people applied for a CHP using the same training course, at the same time(ish), at building located within a short distance of eachother (the Albemarle Circuit Court is in downtown Charlottesville) One court took 11 days, one has taken 65 so far. His de facto permit was issued two weeks ago, as above posts explain.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

leprechaun117 wrote:

I don't see the confusion... Two people applied for a CHP using the same training course, at the same time(ish), at building located within a short distance of eachother (the Albemarle Circuit Court is in downtown Charlottesville) One court took 11 days, one has taken 65 so far. His de facto permit was issued two weeks ago, as above posts explain.

There is no confusion. It just proves two different judges have interpreted the the requirements of a law differently. This is not unusual. Happens all the time. Just like the discussion here the other day, whether a Concealed Handgun Permit allows a person to carry more than one handgun at the same time. Some judges may rule it does, some may rule it doesn't.

 

[Mike]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

This post makes no sense - localities do not issue CHPs in Virginia. Curcuit courts do. What circuit court did A apply to? Why has he not filed suit against the Clerk fo Court for failure to issue the de facto CHP?

The City of Charlottesville is a small city located within and totally surrounded by the County of Albemarle. Each has a Circuit Court of course. And residents must apply in the jurisdiction in which they live, whether it be the city or the county. I think he is saying the city processed an application pretty swiftly, while the county applicant is the one still having trouble with his application and refusal, or whatever took place.

OK, I am actually just trying to get folks to use proper terms to describe the entity they are talking about. What you meant to say is that the Circuit Court for the City of Charlottesville processed an application pretty swiftly while the Circuit Court for the County of Albermarle did not. The City and County per se had nothing to do with it.

These Courts include the judges and the Clerk of Courts - however, 18.2-308 speaks directly to the duties of Cerks of Court to, e.g., issue de facto permits, and the option of localities to require fingeprints from anyone not holding an exisiting permit.

So there are 3 distinct players here - the Clerk of Court, the locality, and the Circuit Court. Making matters stranger, in Virginia, cities are not in the counties - like saying the pepperoni is not in the pizza.

Also, contrary to what you said (that each city and county has its own circuit court, of course), some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

Mike wrote:

.... some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

That's definitelynews tome. What would some examples be? For forty years I have been under the impression that every city and every county have their own General District Courts and Circuits Courts.

 

[Goliath]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

.... some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

That's definitelynews tome. What would some examples be? For forty years I have been under the impression that every city and every county have their own General District Courts and Circuits Courts.

Maybe he is thinking Magisterial Districts? I know the judges in Nelson County also sit in Amherst County as well. Maybe that is where the confusion lies.

Goliath

 

[peter nap]

imported post

Goliath wrote:

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

.... some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

That's definitelynews tome. What would some examples be? For forty years I have been under the impression that every city and every county have their own General District Courts and Circuits Courts.

Maybe he is thinking Magisterial Districts? I know the judges in Nelson County also sit in Amherst County as well. Maybe that is where the confusion lies.

Goliath

It is confusing. As far as I know, ALL cities in Va. That are incorporated as CITIES...have their own courts system.

There are many towns that are as large as Cities, but not City Incorporated and as a rule, they use the County Courts system.

 

[ProShooter]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

.... some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

That's definitelynews tome. What would some examples be? For forty years I have been under the impression that every city and every county have their own General District Courts and Circuits Courts.

I think that refers to these...

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/circuit/James_City_County~Williamsburg/home.html

http://www.yorkcounty.gov/circuitcourt/



From this list:

Circuit Courts

• Accomack
• Albemarle
• Alexandria
• Alleghany
• Amelia
• Amherst
• Appomattox
• Arlington
• Augusta
• Bath
• Bedford
• Bland
• Botetourt
• Bristol
• Brunswick
• Buchanan
• Buckingham
• Buena Vista
• Campbell
• Caroline
• Carroll
• Charles City
• Charlotte
• Charlottesville
• Chesapeake
• Chesterfield
• Clarke
• Colonial Heights
• Craig
• Culpeper
• Cumberland
• Danville
• Dickenson
• Dinwiddie
• Essex
• Fairfax
• Fauquier
• Floyd
• Fluvanna
• Franklin
• Frederick

• Fredericksburg
• Giles
• Gloucester
• Goochland
• Grayson
• Greene
• Greensville
• Halifax
• Hampton
• Hanover
• Henrico
• Henry
• Highland
• Hopewell
• Isle of Wight
• James City County/Williamsburg
• King George
• King William
• King and Queen
• Lancaster
• Lee
• Loudoun
• Louisa
• Lunenburg
• Lynchburg
• Madison
• Martinsville
• Mathews
• Mecklenburg
• Middlesex
• Montgomery
• Nelson
• New Kent
• Newport News
• Norfolk
• Northampton
• Northumberland
• Nottoway
• Orange
• Page

• Patrick
• Petersburg
• Pittsylvania
• Portsmouth
• Powhatan
• Prince Edward
• Prince George
• Prince William
• Pulaski
• Radford
• Rappahannock
• Richmond
• Richmond County
• Roanoke City
• Roanoke County
• Rockbridge
• Rockingham
• Russell
• Salem
• Scott
• Shenandoah
• Smyth
• Southampton
• Spotsylvania
• Stafford
• Staunton
• Suffolk
• Surry
• Sussex
• Tazewell
• Virginia Beach
• Warren
• Washington
• Waynesboro
• Westmoreland
• Williamsburg/James City County
• Winchester
• Wise
• Wythe
• York County Poquoson

 

[Mike]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

Mike wrote:

.... some circuit courts in virginia serve multiple counties or a city in addition to a county and so they are numbered, and not necessarily ties to only one locality.

That's definitelynews tome.

19th Judicial Circuit: "The Fairfax Circuit Court serves the residents of Fairfax County and Fairfax City."

17th Judicial Circuit: "In Arlington County, the 17th Judicial District includes the City of Falls Church, Virginia."

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

ProShooter wrote:

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/circuit/James_City_County~Williamsburg/home.html

When clicking on the link you provided, about 3 inches down the page it says.....

............ "There is a circuit court in each city and county in Virginia."

This is what I have always been led to believe as well.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

Mike wrote:

19th Judicial Circuit: "The Fairfax Circuit Court serves the residents of Fairfax County and Fairfax City."

That's just plain strange. The web page Proshooter posted even contradicts it. :shock:

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

Gosh, here it is again on another web page... :question:

http://www.city-data.com/states/Virginia-Judicial-system.html

quote: The highest judicial body in the commonwealth is the supreme court, consisting of a chief justice and six other justices elected to 12-year terms by the General Assembly. The court of appeals has ten judges serving 8-year terms. The state is divided into 31 judicial circuits/districts. Each city and county has a circuit court, a general district court, and a juvenile and domestic relations district court. Circuit court judges are elected by the legislature for eight-year terms. General district courts hear all misdemeanors, including civil cases involving $1,000 or less, and have concurrent jurisdiction with the circuit courts in claims involving $1,000 to $15,000. General district courts also hold preliminary hearings concerning felony cases. Each of the 31 judicial districts has a juvenile and a domestic relations court, with judges elected by the general assembly to six-year terms. Each city or county has at least one local magistrate.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/gd.html

Get's more confusing each minute. If you go to this link it shows a General District Court for Arlington, and a seperate Genral District Court for Falls Church.

Likewise, it shows Fairfax City and Fairax County both as having seperate General District Courts.

I am totally confused now. :lol:

You would think Fairfax has enough serious crime to justify havinga Circuit Court for both the city and county.

 

[Mike]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/gd.html

Get's more confusing each minute. If you go to this link it shows a General District Court for Arlington, and a seperate Genral District Court for Falls Church.

Likewise, it shows Fairfax City and Fairax County both as having seperate General District Courts.

I am totally confused now. :lol:

You would think Fairfax has enough serious crime to justify havinga Circuit Court for both the city and county.

The issue is Circuit Courts - those are the courts in charge of granting CHPs. And sometimes the circuit court must deal with one of its localities requiring fingerprints, and one not.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

Mike wrote:

The issue is Circuit Courts - those are the courts in charge of granting CHPs.

Yes. I just find it mildly amusing and yet confusingthat Fairfax City and Fairfax County share the same Circuit Court. You were right in what you said of course, it just comes as a total surprise to me.I never knew.

 

[packingdressagerider]

imported post

What doesn't make any sense to me is, if attendance at a hunter education course counts as "training" for a CHP (and there is generally a few minutes spent on this at a Va. hunter ed class with no range time), why is there such an objection to an on-line course?