heliopolissolutions
Regular Member
What a punk.
At least he didn't point a gun at you.
Glad to know you are ok.
At least he didn't point a gun at you.
Glad to know you are ok.
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Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010
- Thread starter ConditionThree
- Start date
Not sure I understand why audio won't be posted when your rights were clearly violated. Tyranny participants will always be exposed as such if I ever come across such a person.
I'll re-iterate, as usual, that this behavior will continue until a lawsuit is successfully won in this state. Somebody is going to have to do it.
I'll re-iterate, as usual, that this behavior will continue until a lawsuit is successfully won in this state. Somebody is going to have to do it.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 11th, 2010
Set out on my evening walk with the recorder running. Traffic was light with a car passing every couple of minutes or so. About a half mile short of the bridge I was summoned off the side of the road and detained.
Instead of the local law enforcement, this time it was a couple of concerned neighbors. The conversation started off with... "It's disturbing the peace"... and ended with "I'm glad I talked to you."
According to this neighbor, many people have seen me and have talking about this guy with a gun walking up the road- not knowing whether I'm a sheriff's deputy or not. What is unclear to me is that if this has created such contraversy why hasnt everyone in the area called to report the man with a gun? I suspect both the frequency and the repetition may have influenced people... If someone sees a person open carrying once, having never seen it before- their reaction will be different than those who have seen open carry with some repetition or frequency.
I passed this neighbor a flyer and gave him my telephone number and we discussed the problem with crime and police response and we seem to agree that there is too much of one and not enough of the other. I may not have convinced this gun enthusiast that firearms are most useful outside of the safe, but I believe tonights impromptu meeting did much in the way of public relations. I hope they take the time to review the information and drop by the forum to learn more.
The rest of the walk was uneventful as has usually been the case.
August 11th, 2010
Set out on my evening walk with the recorder running. Traffic was light with a car passing every couple of minutes or so. About a half mile short of the bridge I was summoned off the side of the road and detained.
Instead of the local law enforcement, this time it was a couple of concerned neighbors. The conversation started off with... "It's disturbing the peace"... and ended with "I'm glad I talked to you."
According to this neighbor, many people have seen me and have talking about this guy with a gun walking up the road- not knowing whether I'm a sheriff's deputy or not. What is unclear to me is that if this has created such contraversy why hasnt everyone in the area called to report the man with a gun? I suspect both the frequency and the repetition may have influenced people... If someone sees a person open carrying once, having never seen it before- their reaction will be different than those who have seen open carry with some repetition or frequency.
I passed this neighbor a flyer and gave him my telephone number and we discussed the problem with crime and police response and we seem to agree that there is too much of one and not enough of the other. I may not have convinced this gun enthusiast that firearms are most useful outside of the safe, but I believe tonights impromptu meeting did much in the way of public relations. I hope they take the time to review the information and drop by the forum to learn more.
The rest of the walk was uneventful as has usually been the case.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
I was not carrying loaded during the encounter. 'School' was not in session- consider this 'orientation' day...
I don't want to sound evasive- but I decline to state.
Are you an attorney? Would you care to take my case pro-bono? I think what many people are forgetting is that the lawsuit isnt the sole goal of enduring this kind of contact. There is little doubt in my mind, that right now the sheriff's department is undertaking some action related to my detention on Monday. Hopefully, it will be to examine current training of dispatch, patrol deputies and compliance to established search and seizure standards so that a memo or briefing is released to reduce the departments liability. (I wont hold my breath though.)
Yes.
When the deputy had taken my property I felt that I was not free to leave.
Yes, I gave the deputy my name. Without photo identification, it could be anyone's name. Yes, I was (e) checked in an unincorporated area where discharge is not prohibited by local ordinance. Yes, I believe it was a violation of the 4th amendment for him to conduct a the search of the pistol after he had already conducted the loaded check.
The deputy is not a punk. However I believe there are training issues.
Yes, eventually someone will have to do it. It will take time, money and the correct plantiff. The audio is for the benefit of the protection of my rights- If I can see some merit in releasing it, I would do so- but not right now. I think that every opportunity should be given for an agency or peace officer to correct their behavior- the legal stick shouldnt always be the first incentive to alter bad behavior, but it seems the most effective. Until then, I have other strategies in play.
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Sons of Liberty
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
PM'd you.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Thanks. But the public record bears out that I was in compliance with the law, even if those reading wish to distort the context of an internet comment.
Any reason why you decided to UOC that night when LOC was available to you? LOC would be automatic for me, and I do it whenever I can, usually in another state or when I'm hunting. I wonder what the deputy would have thought or done if you were in fact carrying loaded. It seems they have been trained to expect OCers to be UOC and to always conduct the (e) check. They probably don't even have complete knowledge of where it's legal to shoot or carry loaded.
The unfortunate thing about all the press that UOC has gotten is that nearly all cops are being trained in a similar manner: to expect an unloaded gun, that a loaded gun is a 12031 violation, always conduct (e) check even if you don't know whether it is actually legal to perform in a given location. You never hear the press report that it's actually legal to carry loaded in the vast majority of the state by landmass. One would think Sheriff's deputies would receive more complete training on the subject, but evidently, this one particular deputy did not.
The unfortunate thing about all the press that UOC has gotten is that nearly all cops are being trained in a similar manner: to expect an unloaded gun, that a loaded gun is a 12031 violation, always conduct (e) check even if you don't know whether it is actually legal to perform in a given location. You never hear the press report that it's actually legal to carry loaded in the vast majority of the state by landmass. One would think Sheriff's deputies would receive more complete training on the subject, but evidently, this one particular deputy did not.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 16th, 2010
After sorting out some issues with the digital recorder and getting the audio uploaded to my computer, Ive returned to action- only to rediscover an old issue. In addition to the digital recorder, I have a condensing mic that has a lapel clip, which significantly cleans up the audio as it is recorded. The problem however, is that if you put the on/off in your pocket the friction of walking is sufficent to switch the mic 'off'. So, about four minutes into my walk, the recorder begins recording nearly an hour of nothing. Freaking PITA.
My route tonight was a hybrid. I walked the circuit through the new development and walked back beyond my home about half a mile and returned home. I encountered a pedestrian walking the opposite direction on the first leg, and a jogger on the return leg who greeted me as she ran past. Also of note, man pointed me out to the woman driving as they passed and waved. I waved back. Traffic was pretty heavy up the main road. No other encounters to report.
August 16th, 2010
After sorting out some issues with the digital recorder and getting the audio uploaded to my computer, Ive returned to action- only to rediscover an old issue. In addition to the digital recorder, I have a condensing mic that has a lapel clip, which significantly cleans up the audio as it is recorded. The problem however, is that if you put the on/off in your pocket the friction of walking is sufficent to switch the mic 'off'. So, about four minutes into my walk, the recorder begins recording nearly an hour of nothing. Freaking PITA.
My route tonight was a hybrid. I walked the circuit through the new development and walked back beyond my home about half a mile and returned home. I encountered a pedestrian walking the opposite direction on the first leg, and a jogger on the return leg who greeted me as she ran past. Also of note, man pointed me out to the woman driving as they passed and waved. I waved back. Traffic was pretty heavy up the main road. No other encounters to report.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 18th, 2010
Had dinner and made all my usual preparations for an evening walk while armed. Made my way through the newer development nearby and back before sunset. Traffic was moderate. No interaction to report.
August 18th, 2010
Had dinner and made all my usual preparations for an evening walk while armed. Made my way through the newer development nearby and back before sunset. Traffic was moderate. No interaction to report.
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ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 20th, 2010
Went on my after dinner walk a little earlier than usual. I walked up to the traffic light and back tonight. Carried holstered sidearm with digital recorder running equipped with condensing mic. I was passed by a farmer on his 4 wheel ATV- greeted him and he went on his way. Was passed by two cyclists some distance apart. Saw the jogger from August 16th - she greeted me as she passed. On the way past the restaurant a grey SUV with a blonde female dirver slowed but did not stop, while rubbernecking. Initially I thought she would be calling the authorities, but ultimately, there was no contact. I reached the traffic light and returned. Three teen skateboarders passed in the opposite direction without a word to me. There was no other contact for the remainder of my walk. Traffic was moderate.
August 20th, 2010
Went on my after dinner walk a little earlier than usual. I walked up to the traffic light and back tonight. Carried holstered sidearm with digital recorder running equipped with condensing mic. I was passed by a farmer on his 4 wheel ATV- greeted him and he went on his way. Was passed by two cyclists some distance apart. Saw the jogger from August 16th - she greeted me as she passed. On the way past the restaurant a grey SUV with a blonde female dirver slowed but did not stop, while rubbernecking. Initially I thought she would be calling the authorities, but ultimately, there was no contact. I reached the traffic light and returned. Three teen skateboarders passed in the opposite direction without a word to me. There was no other contact for the remainder of my walk. Traffic was moderate.
Vbp6US
New member
It's nice to see that most of your outings are met with zero hostility and ignorance. I just hope the Police are more informed so unlawful 40 minute e-checks are avoided.
AyatollahGondola
Regular Member
It may be that all this exercise, new moostache, and trimmed hair is having more of an effect than the OC
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Thanks for the ego boost. No, I'm certain she was not ogling my physique. It was pretty apparent that my sidearm caught her attention. If she had called the police, and if they did respond, it took them greater than 35 minutes to respond as I was able to make it all the way home uninterrupted.
Gundude
Regular Member
I'm sure the LEO that contacted you the other time told everyone in the locker room when he got back to his station. You were prolly the first OC'er he ever saw. They all know about you by now.
Thanks and keep it up!
Hey Condition Three,
I am enjoying your saga. Please keep it coming.
What I am writing below is not for your benifit as I know you know this; it is just an iteration.
IMHO, the deputy sherrif definately violated your 4th A rights--unless you gave him permission to inspect your weapon.
To paraphrase SCOTUS: A legally carried gun does not negate 4th A rights. RAS or PC is needed to detain or arrest, even when a person has a gun.
During your Terry Hot Stop, did you self mirandize in a clear and understandable voice that the officer could hear? If so did you repeat your miranda rights?
Did you ask if you were free to leave in a repititious manner?
markm
One last rhetorical question: Did you ask the officer to produce the search warrant to inspect your weapon? E-check is for Prohibited Shooting Areas only!!
Hey Condition Three,
I am enjoying your saga. Please keep it coming.
What I am writing below is not for your benifit as I know you know this; it is just an iteration.
IMHO, the deputy sherrif definately violated your 4th A rights--unless you gave him permission to inspect your weapon.
To paraphrase SCOTUS: A legally carried gun does not negate 4th A rights. RAS or PC is needed to detain or arrest, even when a person has a gun.
During your Terry Hot Stop, did you self mirandize in a clear and understandable voice that the officer could hear? If so did you repeat your miranda rights?
Did you ask if you were free to leave in a repititious manner?
markm
One last rhetorical question: Did you ask the officer to produce the search warrant to inspect your weapon? E-check is for Prohibited Shooting Areas only!!
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ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 21st, 2010
Went to the Subway at the Anderson Marketplace for lunch. The Walmart greeter welcomed me paying no heed to the pistol on my belt. I entered the sandwich shop and ordered a foot long ham sandwich with dijon mustard, no cheese and plenty of lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, and bell pepper. I took my time eating watching people enter and leave Walmart.
Upon finishing, I grabbed a cart to circle the store for my weekly grocery buys. The only attention I was aware of was from a 4 or 5 year old Mexican boy, who said nothing- just looked at my pistol and then at me. I got my cartload of healthier munchies and waited in line. After I paid, I walked to the Tri-Counties Bank and got coin wraps for the pile of unrolled change I have at home. I loaded my purchases in my vehicle and went home.
August 21st, 2010
Went to the Subway at the Anderson Marketplace for lunch. The Walmart greeter welcomed me paying no heed to the pistol on my belt. I entered the sandwich shop and ordered a foot long ham sandwich with dijon mustard, no cheese and plenty of lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, and bell pepper. I took my time eating watching people enter and leave Walmart.
Upon finishing, I grabbed a cart to circle the store for my weekly grocery buys. The only attention I was aware of was from a 4 or 5 year old Mexican boy, who said nothing- just looked at my pistol and then at me. I got my cartload of healthier munchies and waited in line. After I paid, I walked to the Tri-Counties Bank and got coin wraps for the pile of unrolled change I have at home. I loaded my purchases in my vehicle and went home.
mjones
Regular Member
Bell Peppers - ick! 
AyatollahGondola
Regular Member
Mexicans - ick!
Hey there Marshal. Ham is cured in sugar.
Hey there Marshal. Ham is cured in sugar.
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ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued
August 26th 2010
Had my dinner of grilled chicken breast and steamed broccoli and set out on my walk with my holstered pistol. I walked to the traffic light and back (aprx 3 miles rt). Traffic was moderate. No pedestrians or cyclists. On the return leg, an SUV passed me and braked for a seemingly interminable time. The turned into a closed business and turned around, passing me going the opposite direction. I dont know if they were trying to get a better look at me or if they had hoped the business would be open two hours after their normal closing time. Nearly halfway back from the traffic light, the audio recorder chirped at me, indicating the memory was full and was no longer recording. Without pausing, I erased the prior recording and began anew. There were no encounters or contact.
August 26th 2010
Had my dinner of grilled chicken breast and steamed broccoli and set out on my walk with my holstered pistol. I walked to the traffic light and back (aprx 3 miles rt). Traffic was moderate. No pedestrians or cyclists. On the return leg, an SUV passed me and braked for a seemingly interminable time. The turned into a closed business and turned around, passing me going the opposite direction. I dont know if they were trying to get a better look at me or if they had hoped the business would be open two hours after their normal closing time. Nearly halfway back from the traffic light, the audio recorder chirped at me, indicating the memory was full and was no longer recording. Without pausing, I erased the prior recording and began anew. There were no encounters or contact.
I'd just like to say that I enjoy reading your updates and look forward to every new one. Even the mundane ones. Actually, I especially enjoy those, because there should be nothing more normal or unassuming than a free human being exercising their inherent right of self preservation. Keep 'em coming!