Openly Carrying a Long Arm

[Evil Creamsicle]

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HankT wrote:

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

Seems he just likes stirring up trouble on the internet, as he only seems to show up in volatile threads and say blatantly ignorant things ...

Can you cite an example of what you think is a "blatantly ignorant thing" that I've posted, EC?

well, not to 'feed the troll' so to speak, but yes, your postulate for one, which suggests that an unarmed person will never be an imminent threat to your life.

...but here again, I didn't say that everything you say is ignorant, I said that everything you say is either ignorant or unnecessarily provoking.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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HankT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

wardog6d wrote:


I'd like to see a response. Why would someone be shot for OC'ing anything? Has anyone ever been shot OC'ing? Not that I've ever heard about ever!


There are some candidates for "flighty OCer" who've posted in this and other threads...

Hahahaha!

...this too in red, this falls into that 'ignorant or unecessarily provoking' category.

The blue is only to point out the part you forgot to respond to.

 

[HankT]

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

HankT wrote:

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

Seems he just likes stirring up trouble on the internet, as he only seems to show up in volatile threads and say blatantly ignorant things ...

Can you cite an example of what you think is a "blatantly ignorant thing" that I've posted, EC?

well, not to 'feed the troll' so to speak, but yes, your postulate for one, which suggests that an unarmed person will never be an imminent threat to your life.

EC, the nationally-famous HPCSD[suP]©[/suP] doesn't say that. Here it is, for your ready reference:

HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense[suP]©[/suP] :

It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.


It does NOT say "an unarmed person will never be an immient threat to your life."

Read it again, please.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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EC, the nationally-famous HPCSD[suP]©[/suP] doesn't say that. Here it is, for your ready reference:

HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense[suP]©[/suP] :

It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.


It does NOT say "an unarmed person will never be an immient threat to your life."

Read it again, please.

Read my post again then. I didn't say your postulate 'says' that, i said it 'suggests' it.

What you havesaid, however, is 'It is a bad stragegy to shoot an unarmed person, regardless of if they are an imminent threat to your life'. This is what your post says.

It is a good strategy to shoot anyone who is an imminent threat to your life. This is backed by common sense and Michigan law. An imminent threat to your life is an imminent threat to your life, and I'm not going to die just because the man trying to kill me is unarmed.

Thus, your postulate is ignorant.

 

[JeffSayers]

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HankT wrote:

HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense[suP]©[/suP] :

It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

It is that simple? I thought the great postulate would bea multiple page explanation on a rather complex subject. Don't know what I was thinking... should've looked up the word a long time ago. I guess words really do mean things!

Anyway, sorry to go OT everyone, but Hank Isuspect your postulate is lacking a critical word... "usually"

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

Does anyone else feel like 'State Researcher' may be a cleverly worded term for 'Police Informant' ?:celebrate

We know they read this stuff, and also, to quote myself

We are DIVIDED AMONGST OURSELVES, and it is TAKING US AWAY FROM THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE OPPOSED TO OUR RIGHTS WANT AND INTEND TO HAPPEN. THE ONLY WAY TO COLLAPSE US IS FROM THE INSIDE.

I'm also amused that this part got completely ignored :celebrate

Anyway, I tried to get us back on topic before, and I'll do it again...

my fault guys sorry.

...I would like to be able to long gun OC in some instances... namely because I feel safer with, and am a better shot with, my shotgun than any other weapon I own.

 

[Phoenixphire]

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Sooooo.......

Back to the original point of this thread.



Somebody pop out a date and time for a Long Arm OC Event. I would like to see Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, or Lansing.

Sometime mid-Feburary?

 

[EM87]

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We could do it soon, perhaps Sunday, February 14.

Or we could wait until it warms up a bit, maybe Sunday, March 14.

We'll decide where to do it after when.

Either way, I see this as a stroll around town during the early afternoon hours.

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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March. I have more say over when I have days off if its a month in advance.

 

[T Vance]

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EM87 wrote:

We could do it soon, perhaps Sunday, February 14.

Or we could wait until it warms up a bit, maybe Sunday, March 14.

We'll decide where to do it after when.

Either way, I see this as a stroll around town during the early afternoon hours.

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

Feb. 14th is Valentines Day. That may conflict with alot of people. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[EM87]

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Oh yeah. Not having a girlfriend is great sometimes - I don't have to buy her anything!

 

[office888]

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EM87 wrote:

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

March 14th. Let it warm up a bit, and give everybody a little time to think about it.

wardog6d wrote:

Whats the difference HMMMM? OK hunting with a 308,30-06,shotgun or going to Mcdonalds with a AK or AR...HMMMMM

"A handgun's purpose is to fight your way back to your rifle"

Back when your rights actually mattered, and "scaring the public" isn't what the government cared about, men used to carry their kentucky long rifles on their backs. Most men didn't even carry a pistol. Fast forward 100 years, more men started carrying pistols as a means of self-defense in a world without heavily enforced laws. But they kept a lever-action rifle at hand on their horse, where they could get to it fast if they needed it.

Sure, the long-arm is a large, and cumbersome choice. It gets in the way of damn near everything, and weighs ~8-10 lbs loaded. However, can you really put comfort ahead of safety? If we did, we'd all be carrying 1-shot .22 LR derringers. Pretty much every situation that you can think of that you MIGHT end up in, wouldn't you feel a lot safer with a rifle? Especially the horrific mall shooter scenario. You're trying to get you / your family / others out, but your only exit is blocked by the shooter. He's 75 yards out, and making use of cover, and moving frequently. That's not a shot you could make with your pistol. Hell, let's add the North Hollywood Shootout to the aspect : He's high on PCP, and completely covered in body armor. Now your pistol is completely useless, and he's between you and your exit. 75 yards with body armor and cover? I could make that shot with my AR15. It'd zip right through his soft armor. It'd zip right through most cover that you'd find in a mall. If I miss, I've got 29 more shots to take him down, or at least distract him to where I can get myself / my family / others out. I can't even consider my AR15 as an option for defensive use, due to that possibility that I'll be detained every time I walk 10 feet.

This picture is an example of how easy Long-Arm OC should be Michigan. Yet it's also an example, of how it's NOT right now.

I want to be able to walk through town to go plinking with my friends, with a rifle on my back, walk into a combination liquor store/k-12 school/church-synagogue-mosque/college/bar/grocery store, walk in, buy a pack of gum and a bottle of water, and NOBODY bats an eye or gives a damn. But this probably isn't going to happen in my lifetime. Because people are "scared", and the laws won't allow it.

I want to live in a society where people don't fear a tool, but instead, fear CRIMINALS that might use the tool to a negative end. Where people will STOP depending so much on others, and take it upon themselves that "Hey, MY LIFE is in MY OWN hands."

-Richard-

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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all that stuff office888 said

+1

 

[Bailenforcer]

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stainless1911 wrote:

dang wardog, you sound like a cop!

There has been a problem with personal attacks on this site, plaese dont go there.

He sounds like someone who has common sense and uses it.
Sure we have the right, and use it within reason. With rights there comes responsibilities as well. It seems to me dropping by Dunkin Doughnuts and slapping my M-4 carbine on the counter while I have a French Cruller might border on stupidity.

Pushing limits and Extreme things are for teen aged little boys with more bravado than common sense.

Have I carried a M-4 with me open? yes I have in my car while working, I didn't carry it slung over my shoulder at the Coney Island I stopped at each night for a Chili dog either. It stayed in my vehicle with my 134 pound German Shepard with an attitude problem. I measure what I do with thought and foresight, I wish others would as well.

 

[Bailenforcer]

imported post

office888 wrote:

EM87 wrote:

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

March 14th. Let it warm up a bit, and give everybody a little time to think about it.

wardog6d wrote:

Whats the difference HMMMM? OK hunting with a 308,30-06,shotgun or going to Mcdonalds with a AK or AR...HMMMMM

"A handgun's purpose is to fight your way back to your rifle"

Back when your rights actually mattered, and "scaring the public" isn't what the government cared about, men used to carry their kentucky long rifles on their backs. Most men didn't even carry a pistol. Fast forward 100 years, more men started carrying pistols as a means of self-defense in a world without heavily enforced laws. But they kept a lever-action rifle at hand on their horse, where they could get to it fast if they needed it.

Sure, the long-arm is a large, and cumbersome choice. It gets in the way of damn near everything, and weighs ~8-10 lbs loaded. However, can you really put comfort ahead of safety? If we did, we'd all be carrying 1-shot .22 LR derringers. Pretty much every situation that you can think of that you MIGHT end up in, wouldn't you feel a lot safer with a rifle? Especially the horrific mall shooter scenario. You're trying to get you / your family / others out, but your only exit is blocked by the shooter. He's 75 yards out, and making use of cover, and moving frequently. That's not a shot you could make with your pistol. Hell, let's add the North Hollywood Shootout to the aspect : He's high on PCP, and completely covered in body armor. Now your pistol is completely useless, and he's between you and your exit. 75 yards with body armor and cover? I could make that shot with my AR15. It'd zip right through his soft armor. It'd zip right through most cover that you'd find in a mall. If I miss, I've got 29 more shots to take him down, or at least distract him to where I can get myself / my family / others out. I can't even consider my AR15 as an option for defensive use, due to that possibility that I'll be detained every time I walk 10 feet.

This picture is an example of how easy Long-Arm OC should be Michigan. Yet it's also an example, of how it's NOT right now.

I want to be able to walk through town to go plinking with my friends, with a rifle on my back, walk into a combination liquor store/k-12 school/church-synagogue-mosque/college/bar/grocery store, walk in, buy a pack of gum and a bottle of water, and NOBODY bats an eye or gives a damn. But this probably isn't going to happen in my lifetime. Because people are "scared", and the laws won't allow it.

I want to live in a society where people don't fear a tool, but instead, fear CRIMINALS that might use the tool to a negative end. Where people will STOP depending so much on others, and take it upon themselves that "Hey, MY LIFE is in MY OWN hands."

-Richard-

We should all wear crash helmets because space junk might fall on us.

I agree there are EXTREME situations, but 75 yards with my 357 L frame Smith and Wesson is not hard at all. But I don't see the need to carry a G-3 to the dairy Queen just yet. When it gets that bad it won't matter anyways.

Training to get than shot at 75 yards is more applicable. My last White Tail was in fact a 75 yard shot, with one single 158 grain SP hand load. Dead he fell, all 8 points.

We need to make sure many like us carry and when the McDonalds incidents go down it's 15 people shooting the gun man. Not some 18 year old with a AK 47 strapped to his back side.

Do you really think the gun man potential didn't size up the situation first? OH PLEASE! In all those Mall shooting incidents, and mass shootings the gun men were found to have visited those place numerous times before they went off with a massacre. And him seeing some silly jerk with an AK strapped to his back there at lunch each day would have tipped him off whom to shoot first. I been there and I have seen gun battles first hand and they never happen like the News says they do. Your AK only promises one thing, the shooter goes for you first long before you know he's there. These shooters practice first in almost all the cases I have researched, including Patrick Purdy and his school yard massacre.

Your assumptions prove your ignorance if real life tactical situations. I can line up a few dozen Police officers who have also been there and they will tell you the same thing I just said.

yes you have a right, but use it to your advantage, not your detriment.

 

[wolverine1856]

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I like the idea of carrying a long gun at certain times. When I am walking the dog through the woods in remote areas is a great time to carry a long gun.

It should be up to the individual but I just don't think carrying my AR into the grocery store is a bright idea.

I can see the cause being hurt by these actions.We are already pushing things with carrying a pistol and trying to educate the sheep. We should notbe taking this to another level (ie long guns, and the next level of "evil black rifles") for years.

If it can become common knowledge over the next fewyears that OC is fine we would be good to go. Then if you are out carrying your long gun and stopped nothing would come of it. But if we push the extremes, we will be viewed as extremists and wackos. One step at a time guys and please usegood judgement.

 

[Bailenforcer]

imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:

office888 wrote:

EM87 wrote:

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

March 14th. Let it warm up a bit, and give everybody a little time to think about it.

wardog6d wrote:

Whats the difference HMMMM? OK hunting with a 308,30-06,shotgun or going to Mcdonalds with a AK or AR...HMMMMM

"A handgun's purpose is to fight your way back to your rifle"

Back when your rights actually mattered, and "scaring the public" isn't what the government cared about, men used to carry their kentucky long rifles on their backs. Most men didn't even carry a pistol. Fast forward 100 years, more men started carrying pistols as a means of self-defense in a world without heavily enforced laws. But they kept a lever-action rifle at hand on their horse, where they could get to it fast if they needed it.

Sure, the long-arm is a large, and cumbersome choice. It gets in the way of damn near everything, and weighs ~8-10 lbs loaded. However, can you really put comfort ahead of safety? If we did, we'd all be carrying 1-shot .22 LR derringers. Pretty much every situation that you can think of that you MIGHT end up in, wouldn't you feel a lot safer with a rifle? Especially the horrific mall shooter scenario. You're trying to get you / your family / others out, but your only exit is blocked by the shooter. He's 75 yards out, and making use of cover, and moving frequently. That's not a shot you could make with your pistol. Hell, let's add the North Hollywood Shootout to the aspect : He's high on PCP, and completely covered in body armor. Now your pistol is completely useless, and he's between you and your exit. 75 yards with body armor and cover? I could make that shot with my AR15. It'd zip right through his soft armor. It'd zip right through most cover that you'd find in a mall. If I miss, I've got 29 more shots to take him down, or at least distract him to where I can get myself / my family / others out. I can't even consider my AR15 as an option for defensive use, due to that possibility that I'll be detained every time I walk 10 feet.

This picture is an example of how easy Long-Arm OC should be Michigan. Yet it's also an example, of how it's NOT right now.

I want to be able to walk through town to go plinking with my friends, with a rifle on my back, walk into a combination liquor store/k-12 school/church-synagogue-mosque/college/bar/grocery store, walk in, buy a pack of gum and a bottle of water, and NOBODY bats an eye or gives a damn. But this probably isn't going to happen in my lifetime. Because people are "scared", and the laws won't allow it.

I want to live in a society where people don't fear a tool, but instead, fear CRIMINALS that might use the tool to a negative end. Where people will STOP depending so much on others, and take it upon themselves that "Hey, MY LIFE is in MY OWN hands."

-Richard-

We should all wear crash helmets because space junk might fall on us.

I agree there are EXTREME situations, but 75 yards with my 357 L frame Smith and Wesson is not hard at all. But I don't see the need to carry a G-3 to the dairy Queen just yet. When it gets that bad it won't matter anyways.

Training to get than shot at 75 yards is more applicable. My last White Tail was in fact a 75 yard shot, with one single 158 grain SP hand load. Dead he fell, all 8 points.

We need to make sure many like us carry and when the McDonalds incidents go down it's 15 people shooting the gun man. Not some 18 year old with a AK 47 strapped to his back side.

Do you really think the gun man potential didn't size up the situation first? OH PLEASE! In all those Mall shooting incidents, and mass shootings the gun men were found to have visited those place numerous times before they went off with a massacre. And him seeing some silly jerk with an AK strapped to his back there at lunch each day would have tipped him off whom to shoot first. I been there and I have seen gun battles first hand and they never happen like the News says they do. Your AK only promises one thing, the shooter goes for you first long before you know he's there. These shooters practice first in almost all the cases I have researched, including Patrick Purdy and his school yard massacre.

Your assumptions prove your ignorance if real life tactical situations. I can line up a few dozen Police officers who have also been there and they will tell you the same thing I just said.

yes you have a right, but use it to your advantage, not your detriment.

One more point.

Let's say I was a Patrick Purdy and I visited that store and saw your silly a$$ wearing your long arm on your back side. Do you really think I can't out draw you? My Browning Custom in an askins avenger would be drawn long before you even realized the threat. Before you could swing that long gun you would be meeting Allah or whomever your choice is. There's no way you could draw that fast enough to meet a threat unless it was clearly on the other side of said Mall, and then you could escape and not need an AK 47 or whatever long gun you choose. Your point is mute. There are times to carry a carbine as I said in another post, but catching a burger with your AK borders on stupidity in my never humble opinion. It will make you first choice for the shooter and he will have your gun to commit more carnage. Your threat assessment skills are lacking, and your inexperience is also showing.

Sorry I can't agree with the mindless carry of long guns for no sound tactical reasoning. When I carry my Benneli M-1 Tactical or M-4 carbine it is with damned good reason and expected use, not just to show off. Guns are not a fashion statement they are tools.

 

[HankT]

imported post

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

EM87 wrote:

We could do it soon, perhaps Sunday, February 14.

Or we could wait until it warms up a bit, maybe Sunday, March 14.

We'll decide where to do it after when.

Either way, I see this as a stroll around town during the early afternoon hours.

Let's take votes. Feb. 14 or March 14?

March. I have more say over when I have days off if its a month in advance.

Seems like this issue would have some importance. And would be done sooner rather than later.

OTOH, this is a typical stage of most (all?) group OC march planning. It's called the stalling stage.

The march date gets discussed, objected to, set, changed, postponed, ..... reset....then it never happens.

Good luck if youse guys actually do march (sorry, "stroll.")

But I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Guest]

imported post

OC of a rifle is NOT an in compliance with the objectives of opencarry.org.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/37570.html

 

[office888]

imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:

We should all wear crash helmets because space junk might fall on us.

We all shouldn't carry guns because we'll never be in a situation where we would need them.

Bailenforcer wrote:

Do you really think the gun man potential didn't size up the situation first? OH PLEASE!

Yes actually. Most mall shooters are psychopaths that do NOT size up the situation first.

Bailenforcer wrote:

And him seeing some silly jerk with an AK strapped to his back there at lunch each day would have tipped him off whom to shoot first.

This is a very familiar debate.

It goes with "You shouldn't open-carry a handgun, because it just means the criminal will kill you first."

Bottom line, your argument to me was full of a lot of personal attacks, and I'm just not going to grace you with my opinion anymore.

-Richard-