Over reaction or right thing to do?

[DamonK]

Still no counter points?

Of course not. He know's damned well that he is wrong, but he'll die before he admits it. I highly recommend ignoring him. Let him sit at home and troll. It's not like he has anything else to do, clearly.

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[gogodawgs]

Why do cities even have SWAT teams, police helicopters and armored vehicles? It is my opinion that only the elected county sheriff's should have these weapons of war.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why do cities even have SWAT teams, police helicopters and armored vehicles? It is my opinion that only the elected county sheriff's should have these weapons of war.

So why can't the elected city council of a city elect to buy a helicopter?
Besides the only police helicopters in this state are owned by counties anyway
King County has 3 helicopters(one is on fulltime patrol), Pierce has two fixed wing aircraft and a helicopter (they only fly upon callout though) Snohomish County has a chopper (never used) Chelan Sheriff has a helo for search and rescue, never read about it being used in an LE role. and Spokane County has one Helo that I know of that's always on call, but only flies when requested. So already no cities have their own helos. I should say the state patrol owns 5 cessnas....

What exactly do SWAT teams use that's not legal for joe schmoe with a clean background to buy? Ok, some SWAT teams in some juristictions may operate full auto or burst fire weapons, but most SWAT teams use Semi-Auto only variants of those weapons. A sheriff's deputy told me awhile back that Kitsap County SWAT relies entirely upon Semi-Auto AR-15 variants and a couple of bolt action .308 rifles for sharpshooting (his claim being his department holds deputies accountable for every bullet fired, so spraying a full magazine of ammo at someone and all those rounds missing would cause him some grief with supervisors). unlikely many cities use machine guns... what's wrong with an armored vehicle? how do you define "armored vehicles" a utility truck with a lowered snow-plow will shrug off small arms fire to the front, is that an "armored vehicle"

I see nothing wrong with a city employing their own SWAT team, nearly all their gear is stuff that the average citizen could buy if they could clear the check. The problem is, the County is not obligated to provide LE service to an incorporated city unless contracted, so if the County's team is busy or if the sheriff decided a shootout is not his problem or the sheriff's team is kept long out of town, what's the city supposed to do? your proposal is absurd on another level, you're saying that the Columbia County Sheriff's office, a department of 8 officers with a population of 4000 people should get to raise a SWAT team, and Seattle Police, a 1600 officer agency serving a town with a permanent population of 650,000 people which is a main hub in the state with a developed port, high rise buildings, important federal and state agencies, and probably has over a million and a half people during the day time.... can't have a SWAT team on callout?

 

[Jeff Hayes]

So why can't the elected city council of a city elect to buy a helicopter?
Besides the only police helicopters in this state are owned by counties anyway
King County has 3 helicopters(one is on fulltime patrol), Pierce has two fixed wing aircraft and a helicopter (they only fly upon callout though) Snohomish County has a chopper (never used) Chelan Sheriff has a helo for search and rescue, never read about it being used in an LE role. and Spokane County has one Helo that I know of that's always on call, but only flies when requested. So already no cities have their own helos. I should say the state patrol owns 5 cessnas....

What exactly do SWAT teams use that's not legal for joe schmoe with a clean background to buy? Ok, some SWAT teams in some juristictions may operate full auto or burst fire weapons, but most SWAT teams use Semi-Auto only variants of those weapons. A sheriff's deputy told me awhile back that Kitsap County SWAT relies entirely upon Semi-Auto AR-15 variants and a couple of bolt action .308 rifles for sharpshooting (his claim being his department holds deputies accountable for every bullet fired, so spraying a full magazine of ammo at someone and all those rounds missing would cause him some grief with supervisors). unlikely many cities use machine guns... what's wrong with an armored vehicle? how do you define "armored vehicles" a utility truck with a lowered snow-plow will shrug off small arms fire to the front, is that an "armored vehicle"

I see nothing wrong with a city employing their own SWAT team, nearly all their gear is stuff that the average citizen could buy if they could clear the check. The problem is, the County is not obligated to provide LE service to an incorporated city unless contracted, so if the County's team is busy or if the sheriff decided a shootout is not his problem or the sheriff's team is kept long out of town, what's the city supposed to do? your proposal is absurd on another level, you're saying that the Columbia County Sheriff's office, a department of 8 officers with a population of 4000 people should get to raise a SWAT team, and Seattle Police, a 1600 officer agency serving a town with a permanent population of 650,000 people which is a main hub in the state with a developed port, high rise buildings, important federal and state agencies, and probably has over a million and a half people during the day time.... can't have a SWAT team on callout?

This comes to mind most every time you post:

We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

 

[DamonK]

This comes to mind most every time you post:

We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

+1

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[marshaul]

"I think ski-masked and carrying an AK style rifle" where THE F*** did you come up with this are you sure you don't work for ceasefire or one of those groups.

No, he's just a semi-professional police apologist, AKA shill.

I see nothing wrong with a city employing their own SWAT team, nearly all their gear is stuff that the average citizen could buy if they could clear the check.

Of course you don't. That's because you aren't yet familiar with the concept of posse comitatus, no doubt because it's something the blowhards who dictate your political views would prefer didn't exist.

 

[marshaul]

From our resident government in general hater.

Right, because you're just the epitome of a disinterested party, right? :lol:

To the forum: BigDave is either (I can't remember) a professional or semi-professional police apologist (AKA shill). His implicit ad hominem as about as pot calling the kettle black as you can get.

 

[BigDave]

Right, because you're just the epitome of a disinterested party, right? :lol:

To the forum: BigDave is either (I can't remember) a professional or semi-professional police apologist (AKA shill). His implicit ad hominem as about as pot calling the kettle black as you can get.

To marshaul Mommy': You should have taught marshaul better! :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Jeff Hayes]

No, he's just a semi-professional police apologist, AKA shill.



Of course you don't. That's because you aren't yet familiar with the concept of posse comitatus, no doubt because it's something the blowhards who dictate your political views would prefer didn't exist.

Marshaul you have just scratched the surface I am afraid. This is a young man that is the product of our public schools trained to fall into lock step and obey authority without question. The idea of anything else is so foreign to him it is beyond his comprehension. Its not really his fault BTW but it is his decision to continue down that path.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This comes to mind most every time you post:

We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

Sounds like an intelligent reply right there.....

Tell me, why couldn't we have assembled rifles at the rally? that requirement's not in law... oh because you advocated a rule and sought to enforce it on your fellow citizens. you know what Jeff, I think you help the government confiscates people's guns. you'd make sure they were unloaded and disassembled for them so they can face unarmed resistance. stop pretending to be a revolutionary on the internet, I can see through the act. if you feel you are being enslaved then free yourself....

 

[marshaul]

To marshaul Mommy': You should have taught marshaul better! :lol::lol::lol:

If she only knew what I'd become!

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Sounds like an intelligent reply right there.....

Tell me, why couldn't we have assembled rifles at the rally? that requirement's not in law... oh because you advocated a rule and sought to enforce it on your fellow citizens. you know what Jeff, I think you help the government confiscates people's guns. you'd make sure they were unloaded and disassembled for them so they can face unarmed resistance. stop pretending to be a revolutionary on the internet, I can see through the act. if you feel you are being enslaved then free yourself....

Says the guy who does not open carry yet hangs out on the OC web site, my last advice to you is to stop while you are ahead at the moment you are not welcome any place I am if you keep it up you will not be welcome many places at all if any.

I am as free as a man can be in this country at this moment, how about you are you debt free, do you work for another person, are you on the government teat, loans for school unemployment etc, can you stand on your own two feet without the governments assistance, can you pay your own way without government assistance. So until you get there do not talk to me about enslavement little boy.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Of course not. He know's damned well that he is wrong, but he'll die before he admits it. I highly recommend ignoring him. Let him sit at home and troll. It's not like he has anything else to do, clearly.

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I don't do it for his benefit, he's a lost cause, I do it because it sharpens my skills against other apologist and for the sake of young impressionable folks who might think he actually has a valid point.

Why do cities even have SWAT teams, police helicopters and armored vehicles? It is my opinion that only the elected county sheriff's should have these weapons of war.

They shouldn't have them either.

This comes to mind most every time you post:

We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

+1

 

[kparker]

They shouldn't have them either

That's going a bit too far. I have no problem with the county sheriff owning a helicopter (if it makes economic sense) or having some kind of contract with a private supplier giving them short-notice access to one; sometimes their use really is warranted. Not just SAR, either--I remember particularly one evening football game at Charles Wright where we were graced with the sound of a continual helicopter nearby because some violent involuntary-committment person had just escaped from Western State.

But to have one routinely on patrol? Whatever for???

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That's going a bit too far. I have no problem with the county sheriff owning a helicopter (if it makes economic sense) or having some kind of contract with a private supplier giving them short-notice access to one; sometimes their use really is warranted. Not just SAR, either--I remember particularly one evening football game at Charles Wright where we were graced with the sound of a continual helicopter nearby because some violent involuntary-committment person had just escaped from Western State.

But to have one routinely on patrol? Whatever for???

Because a chopper with a good crew can observe what would normally take 8 to 10 cars on the ground. plus having the chopper already in the air cuts down on response time when a helicopter is called for. for instance in Los Angeles both the city and sheriff's office fly helicopters, with designated patrol areas the helicopter is always no more then 2 minutes from callout. also the chopper can improve the public safety, if a violent felon is fleeing by car a helicopter can follow them from the air and then deputies can disengage from a dangerous car pursuit.

Besides police are subject to mostly the same rules that govern all other civilian aircraft. the rules they are exempted from are normally license fees (which is not much because FAA license fees for GA aircraft registration are like 10 bucks) and maybe the feds will give them a chopper every so often. otherwise the aircraft must be registered, have a tail number and can only be flown by FAA licensed pilots or licensed students with a medical cert. I'm not aware of any police choppers that are armed. so how exactly is a helicopter a "weapon of war"?

what about fixed wing aircraft like cessnas or pipers, does any see any issue with a department operating those?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

That's going a bit too far. I have no problem with the county sheriff owning a helicopter (if it makes economic sense) or having some kind of contract with a private supplier giving them short-notice access to one; sometimes their use really is warranted. Not just SAR, either--I remember particularly one evening football game at Charles Wright where we were graced with the sound of a continual helicopter nearby because some violent involuntary-committment person had just escaped from Western State.

But to have one routinely on patrol? Whatever for???

I would be more inclined to access by private supplier, but I am against SWAT teams, armored vehicles and the helicopter......you know the whole militarization of police.....