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Pepper Spray Police Put On Leave

Tawnos

Regular Member
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Jun 4, 2008
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Washington
I am not arguing with what you said here ^^^^. This is what my point was. The right to peaceably assemble and/or petition the government. I think skidmark was saying that they're not protesting the government, but the businesses.

Except the first amendment says nothing about having to protest the government. It says that the government may be petitioned (asked) for redress (fixing) grievances (things that bother them). This is clearly a form of doing just that. I don't agree with many of those grievances, but they have every right to be there and protesting.
 

09jisaac

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Louisa, Kentucky
Except the first amendment says nothing about having to protest the government. It says that the government may be petitioned (asked) for redress (fixing) grievances (things that bother them). This is clearly a form of doing just that. I don't agree with many of those grievances, but they have every right to be there and protesting.

But, It does clearly say the government? Right? That don't mean you can pitch a tent in my yard because I stole your money. That just means that you can petition (ask) [the government] for redress (fixing) grievances (things that bother you). So where does the peaceful assembly come in? I could have sworn I read that part somewhere too. I am not saying that they're wrong, or right. I am not trying to argue, or start anything. I am just trying to clear things up.
 

Tawnos

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But, It does clearly say the government? Right? That don't mean you can pitch a tent in my yard because I stole your money. That just means that you can petition (ask) [the government] for redress (fixing) grievances (things that bother you). So where does the peaceful assembly come in? I could have sworn I read that part somewhere too. I am not saying that they're wrong, or right. I am not trying to argue, or start anything. I am just trying to clear things up.

The backyard thing is a red herring. I was stating that they are peaceably assembling and petitioning to redress grievances.

Are they in a public place?
Yes.

Are they peaceful?
Yes.


At this point, it doesn't matter who they are protesting, they are within their rights under the right to assemble. Now, you can talk about the NYC people all you want (there's an arguable "not public place" for the park), but this was the UC Davis campus, and the one in Seattle is a public park.
 

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
From every source I can access it is confirmed that the demonstrators were given a lawful order to leave.


Yeah, perhaps you are right--they should just pack it in and go home. Protesting and CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE never accomplishes anything anyway.

That uppity Parks lady in Montgomery in the mid-50s should have just sat in the back of the bus like they told her...

I mean this is just over a silly little issue like the fact that less than 1% of the population of the planet is actively colluding to steal the wealth, property, dignity, and liberty of the entire planet for their own sociopathic personal amusement, and that this "ruling class" is--to a man--certifiably, criminally, and psychotically insane and wants to relegate the rest of the human population to be their own personal serfs. People just need to learn to deal with that, and stop being so uppity.

Learn your place people--either you are a Master (borne in the blood, and a member of one of about 500 families) or you are a slave.

Suck it up. Listen to the "authorities". They REALLY are looking out for your best interest, and the "laws" they are "enforcing" were all TOTALLY drafted fro the benefit of the People, and the expansion of Liberty.

War is peace.
Slavery IS freedom.
Ignorance IS strength.


Goddam freedom-loving, Constitution-hugging, human-rights-defending hippie freaks.

All this whining about human rights, personal dignity, private property, and individual sovereignty makes me sick...

<SARCASM OFF>


(side note, the British Royal Family is, in fact, descended NOT from German nobility, but from Vlad the Impaler. Apples and trees, folks, apples and trees. Considering the current death tolls in Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, etc, I'm sure Vlad would be proud of his Windsor progeny, and their blood-soaked reign)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...ampaigning-to-save-Count-Dracula-forests.html
 
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Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
Messages
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Grennsboro NC
But, It does clearly say the government? Right? That don't mean you can pitch a tent in my yard because I stole your money.

Yeah, but what you fail to grasp is that the people who stole the money (and are continuing to steal it every minute of every day) have infiltrated, usurped, and taken over the "government" by creating a Shadow Oligarchy based partly on collusion, partly on blackmail, and partly on perceived indebtedness--moral, political, and financial--of the "politicians" who they have bought and paid for.

The Banksters ARE the "Government". They draft the laws to benefit themselves. They advise presidents, PMs and Kings, MPs and Senators, on what laws to vote for, what judges to seat, and what is and is not to be tolerated among the rabble.

The line between "government" and "money changers" is essentially gone on a worldwide scale--with a few holdouts like Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Nepal. They are instituting their "end game", and the gloves are starting to come off. They don't care what you think anymore--they have the money, the guns, and the courts. They are so rotten with hubris, sociopathic self-importance, and mind-numbing power-drunkeness that they just don't give a flying Foxtrot what the People think anymore. They think they have won, and that the People are too stupid, lazy, and brain-dead to effectively regain their own Freedom. And so like any sociopath, they will now just start acting out their most depraved, evil, wicked fantasies with utter disregard for "society" and "perception".

For the last 10 years they have been recording every single cell phone call made in the US and databasing all that information.

Today they are macing old women and little children, and running PSAs on the radio telling people to "report suspicious behavior".

In a few days or weeks they will agent-provocateur a violent backlash against LEOs, and people will be getting paid to turn "agitators" in to the authorities.

In a few weeks or months, shots will be fired, and the more radical and vocal protestors will start disappearing.

And then they will open up the camps wholesale, start the trains rolling, and fire up the ovens--just like they did before.

JUST LIKE THEY DID BEFORE...

Only THIS time it won't just be a small industrialized nation in Europe the size of Montana--it is the entire planet.

And this time they don't have mountains of filing cabinets and stacks of punch cards--they have quantum supercomputers and nearly infinite processing, storage, and throughput abilities on the ENTIRE communications system--cell, internet, even public speech with these "gun shot detector systems" that they now admit were actually designed to listen to individual conversations in public...

And the EXACT same people are behind it all now as was the last time--NY and London Bankers, and about 500 families of mostly European "noble descent"...

WTFU, folks--before they start rounding up your families and your neighbors.

Do you want to live in a world where you are Free, or do you want to constantly have to "watch what you say and do" as if your life depends on it--because if these evil bastards have their way--it most certainly will. They tried it once, but didn't have the technology to pull it off.

Now they do.

Let that sink in for a minute....




The question is, how far do they have to push before we stand up, and say as a collective HUMAN RACE against these sociopaths that WE DO NOT CONSENT!
 
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HandyHamlet

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Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
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Location
Terra, Sol
University to pay medical bills of pepper spray victims
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 2:39 AM EST, Wed November 23, 2011

CNN) -- University of California officials said Tuesday they will pay the medical expenses of students who were pepper sprayed during an Occupy Davis protest last week.

Authorities have also decided to drop charges against 10 people who were arrested during the Friday protest on the campus of UC Davis. The university system has also created an advisory panel to look into the incident, University of California President Mark Yudof said.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/us/california-occupy-pepper-spray/?hpt=hp_t3

.
 

Ruether

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Joined
Nov 16, 2011
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7
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United States
I try to stay away from the politics of all the protests mainly because anyone could ramble all day about it. The only thing I've observed from the Occupy protests is that the protesters want the government to "spread the wealth." It was to my knowledge that ideology was Socialist, but I could be wrong I'm not the most educated on politics. On the other hand what I am a little bit more informed about is the UC Davis situation.

I work Security at Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun in KCMO. We are trained by law enforcement and have as much authority as an LEO while on property. I tend to look at this situation from the beginning to try and not be persuaded in anyway. In this Situation the background information was the the protesters can protest no problem, but they cannot camp over night. For this reason, the protesters were asked to leave. While refusing to leave campus property and linking arms they are trespassing on school grounds. Also, like previously mentioned, they were blocking a walk way which also good result in disorderly conduct as well as refusing to obey a peace officer. Now in the video that BBC News used for their report ( I couldnt find the link) There were attempts to use empty hand restraint techniques (simply pulling them off and placing in cuffs) that failed. Going by the level of force matrix that officers have been approved to use the next step would be Passive-Resistance. Which either Oleoresin Capsicum spray (OC, Pepper Spray) Taser Strike, or a baton would be acceptable.

After being amply warned to vacant the property the Police used OC spray, now although looks like a gas it is a liquid spray. I believe it was an efficient and effective decision, although the spray might have been excessive. That being said, most of the protesters were wearing scarves around their face and thick hoodies. It will take more OC to penetrate the cloth and to settle in the membranes of the face to take effect. Once the crowd has released grip from their fellow protesters and now clenching their face the officers moved in to arrest the trespassers.

The safest place to arrest a criminal is on the ground with one hand up to use as a motivator for pain compliance. Once you comply with orders the pain stops. Two or Three officers will effectively hold down a average sized male. Officers can also use knee strikes to enforce the compliance to ensure that it is met. After this there is a scene in a different video that shows arresties being drug away with their legs not walking on their own power. This is, under my believe the last ditch effort to "make a stand." It is often spotted among 5 to 6 year old who do not get their way and their parents must drag them.

Although the amount of OC administered might have been a bit much, everything that was done is indeed legal. The officer that used the spray is under investigation. Which means he is getting paid leave. IMO he was the smartest one their that day. :lol:
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
No, the right is to peaceably assemble -COMMA- AND to petition the government for redress of grievances. Learn to read.

By this reasoning the Second Amendment only applies to militias.

Google "parsing the Second Amendment".

stay safe.
 
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Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
By this reasoning the Second Amendment only applies to militias.

Google "parsing the Second Amendment".

stay safe.

Even if it did, the Militia is everyone, though this is dangerous as libtards have put a bad name on militias and tried to redefine them.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I try to stay away from the politics of all the protests mainly because anyone could ramble all day about it. The only thing I've observed from the Occupy protests is that the protesters want the government to "spread the wealth." It was to my knowledge that ideology was Socialist, but I could be wrong I'm not the most educated on politics. On the other hand what I am a little bit more informed about is the UC Davis situation.

I work Security at Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun in KCMO. We are trained by law enforcement and have as much authority as an LEO while on property. I tend to look at this situation from the beginning to try and not be persuaded in anyway. In this Situation the background information was the the protesters can protest no problem, but they cannot camp over night. For this reason, the protesters were asked to leave. While refusing to leave campus property and linking arms they are trespassing on school grounds. Also, like previously mentioned, they were blocking a walk way which also good result in disorderly conduct as well as refusing to obey a peace officer. Now in the video that BBC News used for their report ( I couldnt find the link) There were attempts to use empty hand restraint techniques (simply pulling them off and placing in cuffs) that failed. Going by the level of force matrix that officers have been approved to use the next step would be Passive-Resistance. Which either Oleoresin Capsicum spray (OC, Pepper Spray) Taser Strike, or a baton would be acceptable.

After being amply warned to vacant the property the Police used OC spray, now although looks like a gas it is a liquid spray. I believe it was an efficient and effective decision, although the spray might have been excessive. That being said, most of the protesters were wearing scarves around their face and thick hoodies. It will take more OC to penetrate the cloth and to settle in the membranes of the face to take effect. Once the crowd has released grip from their fellow protesters and now clenching their face the officers moved in to arrest the trespassers.

The safest place to arrest a criminal is on the ground with one hand up to use as a motivator for pain compliance. Once you comply with orders the pain stops. Two or Three officers will effectively hold down a average sized male. Officers can also use knee strikes to enforce the compliance to ensure that it is met. After this there is a scene in a different video that shows arresties being drug away with their legs not walking on their own power. This is, under my believe the last ditch effort to "make a stand." It is often spotted among 5 to 6 year old who do not get their way and their parents must drag them.

Although the amount of OC administered might have been a bit much, everything that was done is indeed legal. The officer that used the spray is under investigation. Which means he is getting paid leave. IMO he was the smartest one their that day. :lol:

There is no amount of OC that is too much to get rid of trespassers. What would you do if someone refused to leave your house?
 

jbone

Regular Member
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Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
Never lose sight of what you witness here on this forum. Staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment and supposed supporters of the Constitution sell out the first chance they get. The brain washing is so complete. 2A supporters exuberantly backing, making apologies for the actions of one of the most corrupt paramilitary forces we have. And one of the most evil, corrupt politicians ever. An evil tyrant who is the 2nd Amendments worst nightmare no less. Why? Because the 1st Amendment is just something for smelly hippies.

Sad you are, but I will agree there are fakes on the forum, and I believe you are one of them. I sense you are also one that would pass law to allow carry where private owners do not wish on their property.
 
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HandyHamlet

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Terra, Sol
And still... you type words. But they address nothing. Deflect, dodge, weave. Yet never address your unwillingness to embrace the fact that the 1st Amendment is so much more than your indoctrination allows you to express, believe or think.

Are some OWS protesters smelly hippies? Hippies who are coming down on journalists and citizens harder then the cops for photography in some cases?

Absolutely.


Has the profession of journalism sunk to a new low in this country.

Absolutely.


But that, nor your (and others) massive generalizations and prejudices, does not somehow trump or negate the 1st Amendment. You would not have the ability to enjoy your 2nd without it. This ain't math. It's not a hard concept to follow.
 
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Ruether

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Nov 16, 2011
Messages
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United States
Use of deadly force in a simple trespass situation - not even if intended as humor.


I would think that the use of deadly force and the presence of deadly force are slightly different. Plus I would not use OC inside of my own house. If that stuff circulates in your air ducts will be a very bad experience.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
I would think that the use of deadly force and the presence of deadly force are slightly different. Plus I would not use OC inside of my own house. If that stuff circulates in your air ducts will be a very bad experience.

In most states to "draw down on" (pointing a gun at them) someone falls within the firearms/use of deadly force laws, whether you actually drop the hammer or not. One's life is thereby threatened.

When my handgun rests in my holster, there is no threat. If I were to draw it and point it at you, I have just put you in fear of serious bodily harm or death through the potential use of deadly force. Now granted that is not a textbook or statute explanation, but it is a practical version. Having escalated the situation, I may be seen as the aggressor.

Best to know the applicable laws in your state.
 

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
The very idea that a Citizen can even be accused of--let alone cited for or convicted of--"tresspassing" on lands that are owned by the PEOPLE is fundamentally absurd.

If UC Berkeley is a public university, then how can the PUBLIC be trespassing on that land. That would like if a cop didn't want me to park my 1970's custom van in my own driveway because it somehow offended his aesthetics, he could arrest you for trespassing...
 

HandyHamlet

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How can a cop arrest you for obstructing when you refuse to identify yourself, or disorderly conduct for open carrying a firearm, or conceal carrying when you are open carrying, or resisting arrest for the crime of photography, or for dancing and singing at the Jefferson Memorial...
 

oak1971

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Jun 8, 2008
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Wisconsin, USA
How can a cop arrest you for obstructing when you refuse to identify yourself, or disorderly conduct for open carrying a firearm, or conceal carrying when you are open carrying, or resisting arrest for the crime of photography, or for dancing and singing at the Jefferson Memorial...

Because long ago some dumb-ass ceded near unlimited power to them. I blame it on 1800's New York City. They had the first police force in the country.
 
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