Pics from the 2A rally on 4.30.11 (Warning-lotsa pics!)

[BigDave]

You know Navy Lt I was in complete agreement until you twisted something I said.

Come on, REALLY? And Big Dave worried about gun grabs at a 2A rally?

I was pointing out the OWB style of holster with out a level 2 retention device could be subject to a gun grab and run.
Was this implied to be at the rally, No, it is the style of holster with no retention device for outside the waistband holster, IWB holster is designed to be worn concealed with a garment over it.

You are really stooping to this level :lol: You made a good post into a cheap shot.

 

[gogodawgs]

Nice Photos of the group as well, but I must comment on the issue of having a holster for open carry that does not have some type of retention strap or device, nothing to stop a quick grab and gone. Note picks 59 through 61.

You know Navy Lt I was in complete agreement until you twisted something I said.

I was pointing out the OWB style of holster with out a level 2 retention device could be subject to a gun grab and run.
Was this implied to be at the rally, No, it is the style of holster with no retention device for outside the waistband holster, IWB holster is designed to be worn concealed with a garment over it.

You are really stooping to this level :lol: You made a good post into a cheap shot.

Uh? I am sorry, I also took it as a uninformed criticism.

 

[BigDave]

Uh? I am sorry, I also took it as a uniformed criticism.

Is that a criticism with a uniform on :banana::lol:

 

[Deleted_User]

It did not meet ANY the requirements of RCW 9.41.270, let alone ALL of the elements which is required to be guilty.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

In a manner - the guns were held in the safest manner possible - muzzles in a safe direction, guns unloaded, fingers along the side clearly outside the trigger guards. Even MORE safe that a firearm slung on the sling due to the increased muzzle control and trigger discipline.

Under circumstances - clearly for a photo opportunity. I mean there was a guy with a camera pointed right at them and they were clearly posing for a photo.

At a time and place - At a 2A rally! Really? People are EXPECTED to carry guns there!

Manifests an intent to intimidate another - who were they intimidating? Was there anybody there that they were intending to intimidate? Maybe some of the people carrying loaded guns?

Or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons - again, the guns were unloaded, they were pointed in a safe direction and there were no fingers on the triggers. The WSP guys with their loaded handguns warrant more alarm.

Come on, REALLY? And Big Dave worried about gun grabs at a 2A rally?

It is all really needed for some LEO to act these days? We should be careful how we present ourselves with our firearms. 2A Rally or not, no one should've been handling their firearms. 1245A Defender (BoB) posted WELL how we handled the guy who went to unsling and literally show him his gun. We must remain vigilant.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Nice Photos of the group as well, but I must comment on the issue of having a holster for open carry that does not have some type of retention strap or device, nothing to stop a quick grab and gone. Note picks 59 through 61.

It's ok. WSP was there.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

And yet when someone crosses our PERSONAL line of comfort, we turn around and say the same things about those on the other side of OUR personal line of comfort, "Hey! Don't do that! That's bad!"

The fact is, the guys in the long gun photo in question were doing nothing illegal. Shouldn't we just leave it at that, really?

Reminds me of Carlin's Joke, everybody on the freeway going slower than you is an idiot everybody faster than you a maniac. It's all relative to personal perspective. It's why I get a little frustrated with those who insist telling others what is proper or not proper, especially when there's no law against it.

For liberty to work, we have to try not to draw lines in the sand simply because they make us uncomfortable.

For liberty to really work, we must never ever let the government or our employees draw those lines.

 

[Deleted_User]

Then we should remove all pics of the long guns and should not have even discussed long gun behavior at the rally on THIS forum anyway!

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

You know, there is a whole entire concealed carry only crowd out there that says exactly the same thing about us who open carry, regardless of what or how we open carry. They claim we are cowboys and "in your face", etc. They say we are going to hurt the cause because we display our guns rather than hide them away. Their are going to be some of those concealed carry only crowd that would say a 2A Rally like this one will hurt the cause. How do we feel about that? And yet when someone crosses our PERSONAL line of comfort, we turn around and say the same things about those on the other side of OUR personal line of comfort, "Hey! Don't do that! That's bad!"

The fact is, the guys in the long gun photo in question were doing nothing illegal. Shouldn't we just leave it at that, really?

OK, so remove the 2A rally scenario. If Joe Blow hands you a gun in public to look at, that's ok too then, right? If Jim Beam was walking the street with an AR with his hand on the rifle itself, do you not think someone would stop them? How about a pistol? I, personally, wonder about those that pass magazines around in public because people are made nervous.

OCDO is here to educate the public, not see how far we can go before someone has to say something or an LEO is called and we can flex our muscles about how correct we are. Some people just go too far. How many times are we told when we OC not to keep touching your weapon, yet someone had their hand on theirs right outside the Governor's door. /shrug I guess I'm just wrong. This is a common trend, and half the reason I'm not attending anymore meets.

My point is pictures like that are a setback. It's a perception OTHERS will see as a problem. I know Scott personally and trust him. I KNOW if it was me holding my weapon like that, someone would say something. I guess the committee approved this action. I won't argue this point anymore. Everyone is entitled to their opinon. Those that are wrong the committee I am sure will contact them and tell them how to think.

Carry on however you want. My OC days are done.

 

[amlevin]

OK, so remove the 2A rally scenario. If Joe Blow hands you a gun in public to look at, that's ok too then, right? If Jim Beam was walking the street with an AR with his hand on the rifle itself, do you not think someone would stop them? How about a pistol? I, personally, wonder about those that pass magazines around in public because people are made nervous.

OCDO is here to educate the public, not see how far we can go before someone has to say something or an LEO is called and we can flex our muscles about how correct we are. Some people just go too far. How many times are we told when we OC not to keep touching your weapon, yet someone had their hand on theirs right outside the Governor's door. /shrug I guess I'm just wrong. This is a common trend, and half the reason I'm not attending anymore meets.

My point is pictures like that are a setback. It's a perception OTHERS will see as a problem. I know Scott personally and trust him. I KNOW if it was me holding my weapon like that, someone would say something. I guess the committee approved this action. I won't argue this point anymore. Everyone is entitled to their opinon. Those that are wrong the committee I am sure will contact them and tell them how to think.

Carry on however you want. My OC days are done.

It's a far stretch from a Posed Picture to Everyday Behavior. When a bunch of people are standing there 'hamming it up' for the camera and not doing anything blatantly stupid like pointing weapons at others or looking down the barrel, what's the big deal. What matters is the REST of the time, not a posed picture.

I'd get far more excited if candid photos of individuals in a crowd showed this behavior.

 

[BigDave]

You know, there is a whole entire concealed carry only crowd out there that says exactly the same thing about us who open carry, regardless of what or how we open carry. They claim we are cowboys and "in your face", etc. They say we are going to hurt the cause because we display our guns rather than hide them away. Their are going to be some of those concealed carry only crowd that would say a 2A Rally like this one will hurt the cause. How do we feel about that? And yet when someone crosses our PERSONAL line of comfort, we turn around and say the same things about those on the other side of OUR personal line of comfort, "Hey! Don't do that! That's bad!"

The fact is, the guys in the long gun photo in question were doing nothing illegal. Shouldn't we just leave it at that, really?

Navy Lt is there no middle ground for you? the whole entire concealed carry only crowd, wow what a statement to help divide those who support their 2nd Amendment Rights, as we must remember not all have the same views as one does not make it wrong.
Some are labeled in the open carry group as cowboys or in your face, well because some are while many others are not.
While some express their distaste about some actions or voice their opinion about a type of carry or how to approach a problem then the lines are drawn while there are many viable resolutions but not for some.

This is a community and there are going to be varying views and practices and in greater part of the community things are moving forward in a positive direction, do not let one or a few derail you.

Goose, a note sometimes when people get so involved and dig so deep they sometimes experience burn out, take a break if you like but voices as yours are needed to make up that community.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

How many times are we told when we OC not to keep touching your weapon, yet someone had their hand on theirs right outside the Governor's door. /shrug I guess I'm just wrong. This is a common trend, and half the reason I'm not attending anymore meets.
(SNIP)
Carry on however you want. My OC days are done.

Goose you are a valuable member of this community and I hope you don't let differences of opinion affect that. You are not right and you are not wrong you just have your own personal viewpoints, I respect that, and I know NavyLt does too. Although we may happen to disagree.

On a side note the pictures outside the governor's door is a statement of pride in our State and the freedom's we have. I felt it had nothing to do with making any political statements, those pictures would have been taken if Thomas Jefferson was our Governor.

 

[Bill Starks]

On a side note the pictures outside the governor's door is a statement of pride in our State and the freedom's we have.

Agreed, how many other states give their citizens the freedom to do what we did IN the capitol and ON the capitol grounds ??

 

[Deleted_User]

i think that would be a wise choice given your level of concern about not upsetting the general public.

done

By the by NavyLT: I am part of the concealed carry crowd also. Carry is carry, whether OC or CC. I have NO problem with people that OC, just those with a chip on their shoulder and an attitude like yours. Take it how you will, but that's the "cowboy" I have a problem with. The "let's see how far we can push until I'm stopped and can claim my right were violated" are the ones that hurt the cause. You, my "friend", simply explained it perfectly for me.

I'm sure I'll be pinned as the wrong, as many have before me. That's fine. I've more important things to do than be around those being unsafe in the name of rights. /shrug

 

[Deleted_User]

Simple apology to the OP for derailing. PM if interested or start another topic.

 

[BigDave]

Goose if you have time send a PM and let me know how to contact you.

Dave

 

[gogodawgs]

Goose you are a valuable member of this community and I hope you don't let differences of opinion affect that. You are not right and you are not wrong you just have your own personal viewpoints, I respect that, and I know NavyLt does too. Although we may happen to disagree.

On a side note the pictures outside the governor's door is a statement of pride in our State and the freedom's we have. I felt it had nothing to do with making any political statements, those pictures would have been taken if Thomas Jefferson was our Governor.

+1

It is not a political statement, but an immense amount of pride in our state, the original CC state and an original OC state.

 

[SpyderTattoo]

snip: The "let's see how far we can push until I'm stopped and can claim my right were violated" are the ones that hurt the cause. Snip

OC isn't necessarily "in your face", but if no one exercises this right, nothing is pushed and we won't see how far the government is willing to go to violate our rights. Nothing is gained by keeping quiet "in the closet" ( no offense meant by that ). We must push ahead to continue the fight and get better legislation put in place. Anyone think Constitutional Carry will be gained if we don't take this step-by-step to get there? Gray spoke about this at the ralley.

I don't have any problem with people thinking that CC is correct. I just remember that it is correct for them, not me. It does take a certain amount of courage to OC, but I also don't put down anyone who doesn't want to OC, I don't think they are cowardly. I look at it like, they just haven't "seen the light" yet, and hopefully they will someday.

We who OC are just looking for the same respect from the CC ONLY crowd as we give them.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

OC isn't necessarily "in your face", but if no one exercises this right, nothing is pushed and we won't see how far the government is willing to go to violate our rights. Nothing is gained by keeping quiet "in the closet" ( no offense meant by that ). We must push ahead to continue the fight and get better legislation put in place. Anyone think Constitutional Carry will be gained if we don't take this step-by-step to get there? Gray spoke about this at the ralley.

I don't have any problem with people thinking that CC is correct. I just remember that it is correct for them, not me. It does take a certain amount of courage to OC, but I also don't put down anyone who doesn't want to OC, I don't think they are cowardly. I look at it like, they just haven't "seen the light" yet, and hopefully they will someday.

We who OC are just looking for the same respect from the CC ONLY crowd as we give them.

+1

This is why I am reluctant to immediately draw lines on anything. I try to look at it from an actual danger or just "perceived" danger. This leads to reluctance on my part to immediately (pre) judge, things I am not familiar or unaccustomed to. (this also leads to eating lots of good food from other cultures , yum)

History is full of things that at one time seemed in your face or outrageous yet we are glad people were courageous enough to do it.

For Starters:

U.S. Revolution (treason of British Citizens supported only by a very small percent of the colonist)

Rosa Parks not sitting were told (against the law and in the face to many and not just bigots, some black folk thought she was going to do their cause harm too)

 

[Deleted_User]

...

 

[Deleted_User]

OC isn't necessarily "in your face", but if no one exercises this right, nothing is pushed and we won't see how far the government is willing to go to violate our rights. Nothing is gained by keeping quiet "in the closet" ( no offense meant by that ). We must push ahead to continue the fight and get better legislation put in place. Anyone think Constitutional Carry will be gained if we don't take this step-by-step to get there? Gray spoke about this at the ralley.

I don't have any problem with people thinking that CC is correct. I just remember that it is correct for them, not me. It does take a certain amount of courage to OC, but I also don't put down anyone who doesn't want to OC, I don't think they are cowardly. I look at it like, they just haven't "seen the light" yet, and hopefully they will someday.

We who OC are just looking for the same respect from the CC ONLY crowd as we give them.

completely out of context ...

 

[Deleted_User]

Now I am confused...because...

I've asked for my account to be deleted. I'm sorry I responded when someone responded to me. It won't happen again. You win Mr moderator.