Pit bulls

[riverrat10k]

imported post

Where is Peter Nap when we need him?

 

[Decoligny]

imported post

I see any large dog (too big to punt) approaching me at any speed with raised hackles and growling, it is a dead dog.

There is absolutely no "duty to retreat" from an aggressive animal, often this will initiate a predator/prey reaction. If I see any dog running free in my neighborhood and it heads in my direction, if it doesn't turn tail and run when I yell at it, it is open season of Fido.

 

[heliopolissolutions]

imported post

My objection to this is as follows:
My grandad had a German Shepherd. It was an amazing dog, it was named Princeton and loved by all. One day it got out of the yard, someone called the PD to suggest the pound come and take charge of it, or that it was lost and needed to be someplace its owners could find it.
An officer (not animal control) responds, and over the objection of the caller, shoots the dog as it trots up to him.

This event initiated my distrust of the police, and galvanized my love for loyal, honest dogs.
If you shoot a man's dog, you're declaring war on him.
Possessing a firearm does not give you carte blanche to unload at the first sign of trouble.

 

[wrightme]

imported post

heliopolissolutions wrote:

My objection to this is as follows:
My grandad had a German Shepherd. It was an amazing dog, it was named Princeton and loved by all. One day it got out of the yard, someone called the PD to suggest the pound come and take charge of it, or that it was lost and needed to be someplace its owners could find it.
An officer (not animal control) responds, and over the objection of the caller, shoots the dog as it trots up to him.

This event initiated my distrust of the police, and galvanized my love for loyal, honest dogs.
If you shoot a man's dog, you're declaring war on him.
Possessing a firearm does not give you carte blanche to unload at the first sign of trouble.

This was not that. Don't be mad at the OP because he shot an attacking dog. Don't be mad at those who agree that he was correct to protect himself. Compartmentalize.

heliopolissolutions wrote:

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with decrying the "other" open carriers.

There is no way that I have the moral or legal justification in which to say that someone is "wrong" for the legal exercise of their rights.

But you are attempting to say the op was "wrong" for exercising his Right in this case?

 

[45acpForMe]

imported post

Decent shot at a moving target!

Before I started OC-ing (several years) my neighbor 2-doors down had friends visit that brought their pitbull with them. My 2 year old daughter and I playing in our own back yard had the dog come into our yard. We had no fence or defense and calmly went inside luckily with no incident. This happened about 3 times as I remember over the year and a half they lived there. I complained each timeand luckily they moved. The dog never growled or attacked us but simply stood and stared.

I am surprised with you in Califorian that PETA hasn't filed a lawsuit and you haven't been charged with animal cruelty. After all you can go to jail for a couple years if you kill a puppy but can legaly kill your own child in-utero!

TV crews interviewed the dogs mothers saying that "Bruno & Rockowere good pups and had gotten into trouble at the pound in the past but had just turned their lives around!" apparently Bruno was out hanging with friends before going to get milk for his outofwedlock pups when this crazed gunslinger killed him in cold blood. What is our state coming to?

 

[WheelGun]

imported post

I have had several pit bulls (each died of old age) over many, many years. Each had the looks of a killer and the personality of a cuddle bunny.

The original post was a specific circumstance, which could have been fueled by one or more of several variables (the animals could had survived for so long on their own that they became wild animals, they could have had rabies, they could have been trained fighting dogs, etc).

I don't judge the actions of the person who acted in self defense, against a human or animal aggressor. The aggressor (in this case the dogs) is responsible for his aggressive actions and the results of such, whether he is animal or human. The defender did what he had to do.

However, on behalf of my pets, I would like everyone to know that pit bulls are a high-energy, playful and mischievous breed. My most recent dog would run after small animals and return them to us as a trophy.

They also like to chew on objects, and sometimes will include a little 'tooth' in their affection, which could frighten the inexperienced guest to a pit bull owner's home.

Many have been abused, removed from horrible circumstances by the police or ASPCA, and then adopted from urban shelters by kind pet lovers. These dogs have no ill intentions, but still hold onto odd habits from their earlier lives. (I had a dog that hated certain ethnic backgrounds, for example, and would go insane if she heard the speech pattern of certain urban ethnicities. My current dog hates aluminum foil, supposedly it reminds dogs of chains that they were tied up with).

When encountering and evaluating the threat posed by dogs who may or may not show signs of aggression at the moment, don't judge pit bulls only by their energy level (very high and playful) reputation (terrible) or appearance (a bit ugly).

Thank you.

 

[UtahJarhead]

imported post

heliopolissolutions wrote:

My objection to this is as follows:
My grandad had a German Shepherd. It was an amazing dog, it was named Princeton and loved by all. One day it got out of the yard, someone called the PD to suggest the pound come and take charge of it, or that it was lost and needed to be someplace its owners could find it.
An officer (not animal control) responds, and over the objection of the caller, shoots the dog as it trots up to him.

The difference between your story and his, assuming both happened as they are written here, is that this german shepherd 'trotted' up to the officer. His incident had 3 dogs charging him. The horse isn't stupid. The horse isn't going to go nuts just because there are 3 animals. It knows when it's in danger.

 

[45acpForMe]

imported post

WheelGun wrote:

I have had several pit bulls (each died of old age) over many, many years. Each had the looks of a killer and the personality of a cuddle bunny.

...don't judge pit bulls only by their energy level (very high and playful) reputation (terrible) or appearance (a bit ugly).

Actually I think pit bulls are good looking. It is their unpredictability that makes them a threat. With good owners that don't let them free on the neighborhood they sound like a fun dog to own but....

There have been maulings covered in the news where the owner said what a cuddle bunny the dog was right up until it ripped the face off the __ year old kid. Owners, neighbors, friends, strangers have all been mauled by pitbulls. I have not seen news coverage of any other breeds doing that.

If a strange dog is in my yard eyeing my two year old daughter it is considered a target.

 

[wrightme]

imported post

WheelGun wrote:

I have had several pit bulls (each died of old age) over many, many years. Each had the looks of a killer and the personality of a cuddle bunny.

The original post was a specific circumstance, which could have been fueled by one or more of several variables (the animals could had survived for so long on their own that they became wild animals, they could have had rabies, they could have been trained fighting dogs, etc).

I don't judge the actions of the person who acted in self defense, against a human or animal aggressor. The aggressor (in this case the dogs) is responsible for his aggressive actions and the results of such, whether he is animal or human. The defender did what he had to do.

However, on behalf of my pets, I would like everyone to know that pit bulls are a high-energy, playful and mischievous breed. My most recent dog would run after small animals and return them to us as a trophy.

They also like to chew on objects, and sometimes will include a little 'tooth' in their affection, which could frighten the inexperienced guest to a pit bull owner's home.

Many have been abused, removed from horrible circumstances by the police or ASPCA, and then adopted from urban shelters by kind pet lovers. These dogs have no ill intentions, but still hold onto odd habits from their earlier lives. (I had a dog that hated certain ethnic backgrounds, for example, and would go insane if she heard the speech pattern of certain urban ethnicities. My current dog hates aluminum foil, supposedly it reminds dogs of chains that they were tied up with).

When encountering and evaluating the threat posed by dogs who may or may not show signs of aggression at the moment, don't judge pit bulls only by their energy level (very high and playful) reputation (terrible) or appearance (a bit ugly).

Thank you.

True on all counts as far as I can tell.
I am currently raising a fantastic bull/golden retriever cross. I hesitate to use the term "pit bull", but do not know specifically the breed of bull terrier in the mix. I am guessing AMStaff.
He is very intelligent, and is 30 pounds at 3 months old. I am attempting to "curb" a few tendencies such as nipping and licking upon greeting strangers, and I am specifically socializing him with children of all ages. He has the "jaw," and the ropey front leg musculature, and I will likely get a harness and cart to "work" him as he gets older, as he is already showing astounding strength and a willingness to pull.

My son's mother (my ex) is also raising one of these pups, but is socializing it with a mini border collie. I anticipate my dog being a loving giant. I hope their dog will not have to be put down at some point.

It isn't the breed, it is the training. But with some breeds, including the bull terriers, the unfettered nature is quite likely to make them very dangerous if either trained to be so, or even if simply NOT trained.
If not controlled in a home, they will be likely to be "alpha." With mine, I intend to stay "alpha."

 

[heliopolissolutions]

imported post

wrightme wrote:

heliopolissolutions wrote:

My objection to this is as follows:
My grandad had a German Shepherd. It was an amazing dog, it was named Princeton and loved by all. One day it got out of the yard, someone called the PD to suggest the pound come and take charge of it, or that it was lost and needed to be someplace its owners could find it.
An officer (not animal control) responds, and over the objection of the caller, shoots the dog as it trots up to him.

This event initiated my distrust of the police, and galvanized my love for loyal, honest dogs.
If you shoot a man's dog, you're declaring war on him.
Possessing a firearm does not give you carte blanche to unload at the first sign of trouble.

This was not that. Don't be mad at the OP because he shot an attacking dog. Don't be mad at those who agree that he was correct to protect himself. Compartmentalize.

heliopolissolutions wrote:

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with decrying the "other" open carriers.

There is no way that I have the moral or legal justification in which to say that someone is "wrong" for the legal exercise of their rights.

But you are attempting to say the op was "wrong" for exercising his Right in this case?

Whoa there Mustang Sally!
The OP is justified, entirely, if youll read my earlier pg.2 post, I defer to him in this circumstance.

My post here addresses Decoligny's gung-ho shoot em and sort em attitude.

Sorry to confuse on that.

 

[langzaiguy]

imported post

The real question is, was the dog armed? As we know, it's ALWAYS a BAD strategy to shoot an unarmed dog.

 

[N6ATF]

imported post

langzaiguy wrote:

The real question is, was the dog armed? As we know, it's ALWAYS a BAD strategy to shoot an unarmed dog.

LOL

 

[rscottie]

imported post

langzaiguy wrote:

The real question is, was the dog armed? As we know, it's ALWAYS a BAD strategy to shoot an unarmed dog.

ROFLMAO!! :lol:

Thanks, I needed that! :celebrate

 

[Decoligny]

imported post

heliopolissolutions wrote:

wrightme wrote:

heliopolissolutions wrote:

My objection to this is as follows:
My grandad had a German Shepherd. It was an amazing dog, it was named Princeton and loved by all. One day it got out of the yard, someone called the PD to suggest the pound come and take charge of it, or that it was lost and needed to be someplace its owners could find it.
An officer (not animal control) responds, and over the objection of the caller, shoots the dog as it trots up to him.

This event initiated my distrust of the police, and galvanized my love for loyal, honest dogs.
If you shoot a man's dog, you're declaring war on him.
Possessing a firearm does not give you carte blanche to unload at the first sign of trouble.

This was not that. Don't be mad at the OP because he shot an attacking dog. Don't be mad at those who agree that he was correct to protect himself. Compartmentalize.

heliopolissolutions wrote:

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with decrying the "other" open carriers.

There is no way that I have the moral or legal justification in which to say that someone is "wrong" for the legal exercise of their rights.

But you are attempting to say the op was "wrong" for exercising his Right in this case?

Whoa there Mustang Sally!
The OP is justified, entirely, if youll read my earlier pg.2 post, I defer to him in this circumstance.

My post here addresses Decoligny's gung-ho shoot em and sort em attitude.

Sorry to confuse on that.

Did you even read my post?

"I see any large dog (too big to punt) approaching me at any speed with raised hackles and growling, it is a dead dog.

There is absolutely no "duty to retreat" from an aggressive animal, often this will initiate a predator/prey reaction. If I see any dog running free in my neighborhood and it heads in my direction, if it doesn't turn tail and run when I yell at it, it is open season of Fido."

Take another glance and read it this time. I typed it extra slowly to help you keep up.

If I see any LARGE AGGRESSIVE DOG approaching me at speed, and it doesn't respond to loud verbal orders to "GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE" and continues to approach me in an AGGRESSIVE MANNER, I will END the LARGE AGGRESSIVE DOGS LIFE because I consider myself to be in immenant danger.

Just where the hell did you get the idea that I would "shoot em and sort em"? Where in my post did I indicate that I would start popping rounds off at a German Shepherd that approaches with tail wagging and showing no signs of attacking?

No where.

 

[okboomer]

imported post

As for Princeton being shot ... gungho cop who probably shouldn't be carrying. Also, some people are frightened of large/any dog. Why animal control didn't get there in time to save his life, you'll just have to ask them.

As for riding up on a PACK of feral dogs with the jaw strength to crush a person's head, running loose without human supervision? Shoot them before they harm someone or kill livestock. It's that simple. No retreat. The confrontation was with a PACK of feral dogs ... when dogs are in a pack, they behave differently than if alone whether feral or domestic. Those dogs were a danger just by existing.

I have a great relationship with our local animal control and have called them to pick up many stray dogs that I have captured in town.

I agree that what it comes down to is if the owners can and do train and control their dogs. I have been attacked in my own yard by a Blue Heeler that lived in the yard across the alley. I was able to escape him by running into my dog's chain length, at which time he attacked the BH and allowed me to make it to the house.

An aggressive dog, no matter what, needs to be put down.

A friend of ours whose mother raised champion Rottweillers had a male that he had purchased from another breeder. He didn't know the line of the breeder and found out that he had a dog from the aggressive breed line. At four years old, this dog cornered my friend's 7 month pregnant wife for 2.5 hours until my friend got home. He discussed the situation with us and we told him he should put the dog down before it hurt someone. Two months later, he came to us and told us he had to put the dog down as it had turned on him, too. Sometimes it is the breeding by irresponsible people.

 

[heliopolissolutions]

imported post

Decoligny wrote:

Did you even read my post?

"I see any large dog (too big to punt) approaching me at any speed with raised hackles and growling, it is a dead dog.

There is absolutely no "duty to retreat" from an aggressive animal, often this will initiate a predator/prey reaction. If I see any dog running free in my neighborhood and it heads in my direction, if it doesn't turn tail and run when I yell at it, it is open season of Fido."

Take another glance and read it this time. I typed it extra slowly to help you keep up.

If I see any LARGE AGGRESSIVE DOG approaching me at speed, and it doesn't respond to loud verbal orders to "GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE" and continues to approach me in an AGGRESSIVE MANNER, I will END the LARGE AGGRESSIVE DOGS LIFE because I consider myself to be in immenant danger.

Just where the hell did you get the idea that I would "shoot em and sort em"? Where in my post did I indicate that I would start popping rounds off at a German Shepherd that approaches with tail wagging and showing no signs of attacking?

No where.

I got that impression from the last sentence in your original post, that "If I see any dog running free in my neighborhood and it heads in my direction, if it doesn't turn tail and run when I yell at it, it is open season of Fido."

The other 2 sentences of your post I have no qualms about, thats all safe and reasonable.

Yelling and hollering at a dog doesn't indicate that it should flee and desist as it might if you yelled at a human. Often the contrary, and rather than throw a bunch of "what ifs" at you, I'll just say that the last part, on its own, is where I got the idea that you had a shoot em and sort em attitude.

You didn't qualify that the dog would have to be acting in aggressive or that the aggressive behavior might be approaching you after calling to it.

I'm not looking to flame you, I'm telling you why I believe its ignorant and foolhardy to dispatch any dog on approach.

And just a little off topic: what does a dogs size have to do with its tendency towards violence? I really do not fancy being chewed on by a puntable wild dog.

 

[wrightme]

imported post

heliopolissolutions wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

Did you even read my post?

"I see any large dog (too big to punt) approaching me at any speed with raised hackles and growling, it is a dead dog.

And just a little off topic: what does a dogs size have to do with its tendency towards violence? I really do not fancy being chewed on by a puntable wild dog.

Simple. Threat level.
Small dog, smaller threat. Big dog with the jaws of a pit bull, BIG threat.

I would rather be attacked by a feral yorkie than by a feral Amstaff. With the yorkie, I am likely to survive unarmed. Not so with the AmStaff. Similarly with a Rot or other large dog.

 

[marshaul]

imported post

N6ATF wrote:

langzaiguy wrote:

The real question is, was the dog armed? As we know, it's ALWAYS a BAD strategy to shoot an unarmed dog.

LOL

You got that right! :lol: +1

 

[marshaul]

imported post

VAopencarry wrote:

to go call coyotes[/quotes]

I am not from the country..... What does this mean?

Maybe he meant "cull"?

 

[UtahJarhead]

imported post

Calling coyotes gets em out into the open. Same as a turkey call or the like.