PNC Bank - bad experience this morning

[independence]

I'd just like to add (because that's the way I am) that the bold section is incorrect - that is, there is a 1 in 18 chance of a firearm being discharged in a visibly armed bank robbery. There is only a 1 in 72 chance of a firearm being discharged during a bank robbery of any kind.

Yes, I know i'm a bit pedantic at times. Thank you. :lol:

Thank you. You are correct. Thank you for your pedanticness - is that a word?

 

[JustaShooter]

Thank you. You are correct. Thank you for your pedanticness - is that a word?

(Must... Not... Reply... Argh! I just can't help myself at times!)

Actually, the word is "pedantry".

 

[independence]

(must... Not... Reply... Argh! I just can't help myself at times!)

actually, the word is "pedantry".

rotflol!

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Didn't start or escalate the situation (BG started it.)

Objective facts, and subjective belief, that I am in danger of death or serious bodily injury (BG has or indicates he has, a weapon AND he has threatened me directly.)

Tried to retreat (BG came in, and is blocking, the only customer exit.)

Don't have any other less-lethal options (BG told me to shut up, so I can't talk him down, and I have no other weapon equal to his)

I take the shot to stop the threat.

IF his gun is pointed at another person, I would only take the shot if he has indicated verbally his immediate intent to shoot that person. "Give me the money or I'm going to kill you" is not enough. "I told you to shut up, now you're going to die" would probably be enough for me.

And all this planning might turn into a bowel movement when an event like this actually happens.

 

[independence]

Didn't start or escalate the situation (BG started it.)

Objective facts, and subjective belief, that I am in danger of death or serious bodily injury (BG has or indicates he has, a weapon AND he has threatened me directly.)

Tried to retreat (BG came in, and is blocking, the only customer exit.)

Don't have any other less-lethal options (BG told me to shut up, so I can't talk him down, and I have no other weapon equal to his)

I take the shot to stop the threat.

IF his gun is pointed at another person, I would only take the shot if he has indicated verbally his immediate intent to shoot that person. "Give me the money or I'm going to kill you" is not enough. "I told you to shut up, now you're going to die" would probably be enough for me.

And all this planning might turn into a bowel movement when an event like this actually happens.

In my case, I may consider taking the shot as long as he has the weapon pointed at another person like the teller. Since you don't agree with me, have a nice life! (That last part was a joke, based on the words of eye95...)

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

To bring this thread slightly back on topic, the folks at PNC Bank corporate confirmed their LACK of any "No Guns" policy and their intent to keep it that way.

I have information for BB62 when he gets back in town.

This was a rogue manager acting on her own.

 

[autosurgeon]

Michigan Open Carry had opened corporate accounts at PNC but then they informed us we could not carry our guns. Further they forced a member of our leadership team to close his personal account citing his wilful carry of his pistol. He had never been asked to leave and his local branch manager was upset over the situation but there was nothing he could do.

My opinion is PNC is talking out both sides of their mouth and that they may not have a written policy but it is pretty obvious that they don't like OC.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Michigan Open Carry had opened corporate accounts at PNC but then they informed us we could not carry our guns. Further they forced a member of our leadership team to close his personal account citing his wilful carry of his pistol. He had never been asked to leave and his local branch manager was upset over the situation but there was nothing he could do...

How long ago did this happen and who ABOVE the branch manager did they contact?

 

[autosurgeon]

I as Treasurer of the named organization talked to corporate as in the President of small business accounts and was given the mealy mouth. This tells me a I need to know. And this happened this spring and summer.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Sorry about your issue. I tend to go as far up as I can to start and let the excrement roll downhill.

It did not have to roll very far to get attention in BB62's case. The contact I have will also be sending some internal excrement further downhill.

 

[BB62]

To bring this thread slightly back on topic, the folks at PNC Bank corporate confirmed their LACK of any "No Guns" policy and their intent to keep it that way.

I have information for BB62 when he gets back in town.

This was a rogue manager acting on her own.

I'm baaaack!

Thanks for your attempts to lasso the bank robbers, I mean, thread stealers!

I'll call you later.

 

[samkent]

My opinion is PNC is talking out both sides of their mouth and that they may not have a written policy but it is pretty obvious that they don't like OC.

Is it possible that vigorous attempts to "clarify" a companies position on OC results in the company actually 'taking' a position?
Has it ever resulted in the company saying publically "We welcome you to come in with fire arms"?
I've never see a sticker on the front door with a green check mark through it.

Granted PNC has never said a word to me while I was OC. And maybe I might react differently if they did. My first thought is that I would just start using a different branch.

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Is it possible that vigorous attempts to "clarify" a companies position on OC results in the company actually 'taking' a position?

Yes. Even a 'casual' inquiry can do that. This is why we do not recommend calling or asking about policies if there are no signs posted.

In THIS case, the manager raised the issue, so we either have to ask OR we ignore the issue.

Ignoring things seldom makes them go away.

Has it ever resulted in the company saying publically "We welcome you to come in with fire arms"?
I've never see a sticker on the front door with a green check mark through it.

Yes. Of course, most of these businesses have been gun stores.

Granted PNC has never said a word to me while I was OC. And maybe I might react differently if they did. My first thought is that I would just start using a different branch.

Again, that would be choosing to ignore the issue.

In this case, I made an assumption that the nationwide policy had NOT been changed and called to confirm. While the call that was returned to me COULD have said "Keep your guns out of our banks!", it did not.

The returned call confirmed the nationwide policy had not changed and was an event limited to this branch.

I called because there is no reason to ignore the situation OR to act on assumptions.

If they had changed into an anti-gun bank, I would have lead a charge across the entire US to have pro-gun citizens find new places to put their cash.

A refresher course on PNC firearms policies MAY be in store for the PNC branch manager. Since we cannot confirm just how many branches need such a refresher, I would give such a refresher course to all Ohio branches.

 

[samkent]

A refresher course on PNC firearms policies MAY be in store for the PNC branch manager.

I'll bet they have wide latitude in these matters even if they cannot install official signage.

 

[BB62]

I'll bet they have wide latitude in these matters even if they cannot install official signage.

Maybe so, and maybe not. Things like that vary from company to company.

And, on another note, MWSY has fully addressed your concerns, and yet you persist...? Is your glass half empty?

If you want to use a different branch, that's your business, but all you're doing, at least in this case, is allowing a previously known policy to a) not be clarified, and b) not be adhered to. Neither a or b is good for our side.

 

[Brian D.]

I'll bet they have wide latitude in these matters even if they cannot install official signage.

I sort of doubt that with this particular company. They got their stuff squared away by Ohio-based gun rights activists many years ago. The manager of this one branch may have believed otherwise, but...sounds like she was in error.

MWSY and BB62 have heard this from me on other occasions, it's one of the best bits of advice ever passed along my way: "If you don't like the music you go talk to the organ grinder, NOT the f***in' monkey!" The monkey in this case of course being that bank manager, the organ grinder being MWSY's "higher up" contact.

 

[BB62]

Earlier this morning I e-mailed the contact who called MWSY in my absence and am awaiting a return phone call.

 

[BB62]

UPDATE !! The matter is resolved.

Earlier today I sent a detailed e-mail to the contact which MWSY supplied.

A short while ago I got off the phone with him, a senior member of corporate management who asked me not to identify his position. I verified his position, however.

He succinctly made the following points clear: 1) he apologized for my experience, 2) he said the guard exceeded his authority, as they are merely to request that people remove sunglasses, hats, etc., 3) he didn't fault the manager for backing the guard up, although I mentioned it in my e-mail, but didn't push it on the phone, 4) he stated that PNC has no policy regarding the carry of firearms by customers, 5) he will ensure that instructions are given to the security guard company (Allied, I believe) that gun carriers are not to be approached for that reason, and 6) that employees or contractors who object or state their fear of open carry are to be told (essentially) "Our policy is we do not involve ourselves in a customer's decision to carry or not carry a firearm".

I was ready to offer to discuss open carry or firearms matters with the branch employees, because of what I perceived to be an atmosphere of nervousness created by the branch manager's fear and dislike of openly carried firearms, but the executive made it clear that he felt no need to do any hand-holding on #6.

Bottom line, there is no written policy, and the executive made it clear that if the bank were to involve itself in such matters by posting it would be dictating (or making illegal) a choice better left to the bank customer.

Thanks again to MWSY, and to PNC.

Carry on! (pistols only, please)

 

[david.ross]

I'm glad you were able to solve the problem.

Carry on! (pistols only, please)

Unfortunately there are people who turned open carrying long guns for a political statement, hence the CEO's letter from Starbucks. People need to realize their actions may have negative consequences for all of us who legitimately carry for our own safety.

 

[FreeInAZ]

I'm glad you were able to solve the problem.



Unfortunately there are people who turned open carrying long guns for a political statement, hence the CEO's letter from Starbucks. People need to realize their actions may have negative consequences for all of us who legitimately carry for our own safety.

David - would you say the same thing to gay people who express their affection for one another in public? Would you tell them -" Don't exercise your right to freedom of expression, it could cause a backlash against gay people." A right is a right. You can't pick & choose! You either support all civil rights, or you support none. Those who feel they must hide their rights are not free people. They are slaves to the "Government". Now if you can say carrying a long gun is not a protected right under the 2A, please eloborate.

Gay people have gained much from overt acts. What makes them a-ok, but long gun carriers a stain on the struggle for firearms rights/civil rights?

You fly the gay banner openly, why the double standard? It's okay to be open about ones sexuallity, but not about ones passion for constituionally protected rights? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Not attacking you, just curious how you rationallize those opposing views?