Protectin' and Servin'

[openryan]

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

openryan wrote:

Signing the ticket should have been a big deal... every ticket that I had been issued, I had signed... usually in all the states I have gotten tickets, you sign the front as a promise to either show up in court or to take care of the ticket, not an admission of guilt... and on the back you can sign again to plead guilty to mail it in (pleading guilty is a seperate signature...

I looked for a Utah ticket online, can't find one, if anyone can, I'd be really interested in seeing it.

On the botom of this link http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations.htmlare some examples from the UHP. Click on each of the links below

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations_example1.html

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations_example2.html

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations_example3.html

They all say " WITHOUT ADMITING GUILT I PROMISE TO APPEAR AS DIRECTED HEREIN SIGNATURE OR.....OFFENSE TRACKING NUMBER: X____________________________

Good, then this guy really didn't have a good reason to not to sign it. Arguing with a cop after he has written the ticket is not the way to go, take it up with the judge. I have gotten 2 tickets ripped up the next day after they were both written to me on the night prior -- I signed for them at the time. They threw them out when I called the department the next day.

Usually, I think the officer can take your license as a promise to appear in court, if you refuse to sign the ticket...

I still am wondering why he was taken out of the car for not signing...


--Thanks for the links as well!

 

[SouthernBoy]

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TrueBrit wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

Thundar wrote:

imperialism2024 wrote:

swatpro911 wrote:

studies show more damage can be done by batons and mace. Quick electric shock will get you down and you will come back up shortly, no harms done.

Physical damage? Or psychological?

Anyhow, as HC has brought up, this "L"EO must be incredibly stupid or full of himself to do this and then lie on camera. Did he not know there was a dashcam? Did he think he was comfortably within the law?

Then again, hey, Tasers don't damage anyone, so they may as well be used like a pat on the back.

What if the pregnant wife had been armed?Would she have been jutifiedif she had shot or disarmed the maniacal officer to defend her husband?

I love most LEO's but this is absolutely evil. This patrolman violated many laws, not only in assaulting the victim, but also in the lies he told to a law enforcement officer (2nd patrolman on the scene) to tryand cover hiscriminal behavior.

More disturbing to me that the incident is the defense of it as justified by the Utah Highway Patrol.

Good point about the wife being armed as a possibility. Also, what about this.

Suppose our traveler was highly trained in the use of hand-to-hand defensive/offensive tactics and reacted to the abrupt behavior of the officer by throwing him to the ground while at the same time disarming him, then used the tazer on the officer (not at all a bad turn of events when one considers the actions of this "LEO"). What might be the outcome of such an action?

Let's face it. LEO's see and face everything one can imagine from the good to the evil and everything in between. They tend to see more of the bad side of society than the good, too. So there is that protective covering they must wear to both shield and protect themselves from nasty people. But they are also expected to treat people with a level of respect and dignity and avoid using forceful and aggressive actions unless absolutely necessary. This means we demand and expect a hell of a lot from them all the time. And we should because what we do not want to see the beginnings of a police state. What we do not need to see ever again is the dispicable behavior of the elected officials, the police, and the national guard in New Orleans with their treatment of the citizens and citizen arms we witnessed in and around New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. (damn do I wish a bunch of good 'ole boys had banded together heavily armed and told those clowns, "you ain't taking our arms.. not today, not tomorrow, not ever").

Good, pertinent post from the Southron gentleman, as ever.

The terrifying part in all of this for me, is that, someday soon,there will be tragic consequences, both for a badge-heavy cop and an outraged, legally armed citizen, if this kind of behaviour goes unchecked.

TrueBrit.

Mind you, I don't advocate attacking an LEO unless there is a damned good reason, but then again, that also holds true for anyone. Police are no different than the rest of us in terms of rights and responsibilities. What we have elected to do is to afford them certain powers and authority necessary to carry out their mission. This by no means conveys to them absolute authority nor does it convey their ability to "ride herd" over the citizens of which they have been assigned the duty to serve.

I support my local police and expect them to act in my interests; not be my nemesis. Together, we can help keep our communities a better place to live. Driven apart by a wedge of mistrust, angst, and anger does neither side any good.

Your statement,
"The terrifying part in all of this for me, is that, someday soon,there will be tragic consequences, both for a badge-heavy cop and an outraged, legally armed citizen, if this kind of behaviour goes unchecked"

I hope stays in the cage otherwise, I fear you might be prophetic. Hopefully not.

 

[massltca]

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ama-gi wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

Asshole LEO. The driver should have kept his mouth shut about being read his rights. Since he wasn't (as far as the video indicates), he could get his case thrown out and then sue the pants off of this out-of-control cop for everything he can get. The cop appears to be on a power trip and needs to be taken down real quick before he really hurts someone. To bad the driver wasn't able to wrestle the tazer from the cop and tazer his sorry ass.. let him know how it feels.

Where do people get the idea that suing the county and having the citizens' taxes raised is somehow justice when a cop misbehaves??

That's like suing the victim.

Because that's the only way to punish the police, hit them in the wallet.

 

[massltca]

imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Read this link http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations.html.

According to this linkthe UTAHHighway Patrol Officer was100% within the Law.

Is this really complicated to you? Really??? Really??????????!!!!!!!!!

Here, I'll explain what the rest of us are seeing.

The man was out of state. In almost every state, when you sign the way you plead guilty to a ticket is to sign the back and send it in. To most people in the US, SIGNING A TICKET EQUALS PLEADING GUILTY.

Instead of simply taking a minor situation and explaining what was going on, the officer was on a power trip. Instead of saying, "sir, you're required by Utah law to sign this ticket. It's not an admission of guilt, just a way for us to know you received it. If you don't sign it, I'm goign to have to place you under arrest." If he'd have said that and the guy didn't comply, then he should've arrested him (without a taser).

But he didn't do that. He said, "alright step out" in a macho voice and then as the man proceeded to argue (because not all of us are sheeple who jump when someone with a badge says jump) he turned the situation violent in front of the mans pregnant wife and childe for no other reason than he could and he enjoyed it. He then proceeded to completely lie to the next officer on the scene: "he was jumping all over the place" and "I warned him" when he did not warn him...THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!

The man was NOT violent. The cop was the only violent person in this encounter. The man was obviously scared and jumped away as soon as he saw the gun pointed at him and pleaded "I'm just trying to understand." This man didn't want to fight, he wanted to understand. He wasn't about to be violent...he was upset at what he felt was an unjust ticket that was going to ruin his vacation and he didn't want to admit guilt to it. this did not have to end in a violent encounter and arrest...the only thing this man did was fail to click his heels when told to do something that didn't make sense to him. And god help us if we ever become a nation that starts following orders that don't make sense to us just because an "authority" told us to do so. Do you think we're still in kindergarten??!

The man did nothing wrong...that's why all the charges have been DROPPED!

The cop then leaves the man lying on the side of the road where he could've gotten run over and denies him the opportunity to comfort his sobbing, pregnant wife.

All to keep us safe....not.

And you're fine with it. I can only hope you get tasered one day for no reason so the rest of the narrow-minded, robotic sheeple like youcan clap their hands and say "he deserved it...thank you for keeping me safe, master." :banghead::banghead:



As others have said, the only crime in America anymore is disobedience.

Amen.

One thing I cannot stand is an authority figure with an attitude.. one who forgets his charge and for whom he works.

+1 I'll second that.

 

[massltca]

imported post

marine dad wrote:

well,

here's another leo who should be caught out somewhere and beaten with a baseball bat.

Yeah they should taze these cops who are so trigger happy with them so they know how is feels, then fire them on the spot.:cuss:

 

[murphyslaw]

imported post

the fact is that signing the ticket is a bond to show in court. yet signing the ticket is not an admision of guilt. not signing the ticket is refusing the bond and is an arrestable offince. then once you get processed and sit in jail for a while you can post bail. its simple folks sing the DANG ticket and rebute later. the side of the road is no where to argue with anyone.

and that cop was entirely with in his rights to do such things. would I have done it that way HELL NO, would I rag on him for handeling it like this YES, was he not justified in his actions NO.

We have been talking about this alot over at a LEO forum.

 

[deepdiver]

imported post

Per the police dept spokesman the officer has the discretion to either arrest someone who doesn't sign or to write "refused to sign" on the ticket and send them on their way. The officer escalated the situation. The citizen was a jerk. They both deserved to be tazed and fined.