Quick question...

[newbie]

I get what your all saying, I have a bad mouth but to tell me what I did was wrong is just going to piss me off. My actions were really not horrible that day. Yes I cussed at them. But you guys act like that's the worse thing in the world.

Also my past statement to walk away, iv done this tons of times. It's always a good idea to walk away and avoid a confrontation. Now I'm a strong believer in non violence, it's not always a "cake walk" to walk away. The point iv been getting so frustrated with all of you is simply telling someone to **** is not reason enough to attack someone. If they were going to attack then thy still would have. I'm not sure why some of you don't understand it.... I'm not even sure why I'm trying to exsplabe myself to you guys still.

My only words are if and when it happens to one of you if love to hear what you say. Hell iv heard people on here with YouTube videos to the police showing 10x more disrespect then me telling some punks to **** the **** up. Now heat of the moment that's what came out. All of my other actions were perfectly fine and in the clear.

Now I'll only say this once but I'll apologize to you kids for my aditude. 1 im vary hard headed and when people tell me I'm 100% wrong and it was a unavoidable situation when I know it was there and now and not something I could just walk away from. The guys were close enough to spit on me 30ft is not far and they came looking for a fight. I stood up for myself and I don't think I did the wrong thing by brandishing my gun.

Maybe a couple of you would also like to man up and apologize for being a$$holes as well.

No iv said sorry and I'm going to leave it at that and this thread can be closed.

 

[Law abider]

Newbie, for God's sake, put your gun away till you learn humility and get a sober mind. You are going to get the libbers and anti gunners nashing their teeth at us if you continue with your mindset. Worst yet you may get yourself in big trouble or worst by your own actions. All day long I had to respond to anti gunners emotional arguments at work today about Colorado and our first amendment rights. Please don't wreck our liberty

 

[AaronS]

Just came to see the "static" I got here for the last time.

Now I already said once before in this thread. I keep a *spare* pistol in the trunk of my car. Meaning its a unused gun that is called a spare or extra. Meaning this is not my "carry" gun. Meaning it sits in the trunk of the car 95% of the time. Unless I take it out to let a friend shoot it, or if I don't carry that day I have one in the car for when I go hiking/camping/ whatever other reason I want it for.

Also I already said, I have a ccl but I was not carrying that day. The heat wave was hot here and I didn't have clothing on that could hide a firearm and i chose not to carry that day. So my carry gun was at home on my bedside holster.

Also I know iv met a couple of you in person and I know that you guys would not talk like such ******** in person. Doing it on the Internet in front of other people does not make you seem "cool" here. So knock it off.


Also, my question was not to justify me pulling the gun or my actions. Just wanted to know the trouble I could have got in. Also in the heat of the monument I don't think anyone of you will stop and say "hey sit. I don't like that"

I'm talking about a real life situation not something that you can play out in your head a million times. It's not going to go as smooth as you think.

And are you guys really that ****** of men that you won't stick up for your wife's? She must consider you guys real winners.

Last but not least I'm not here to be anyone's friend. Just here to learn a thing or two and skim threw the bulshit comments that get posted. Mature or not, I'm not here to satisfie any of you. That's the realistic fact here. And I'm sure a bunch of you feel the same but don't want to post it. I'm not going to be mr. Nice guy and side with the people with the "high post counts"

And yes it is useless if your not going to use it. And let's all drop the shocked act I pulled a gun and put it at my side. I didn't load the thing chase them down and put the pistol in there mouth. I did what I had to do. Cuss words or not. An I'd take that 80$ disorderly conduct ticket anyday to teach a few punks a lesson about talking **** to a stranger. So I guess you guys could call me a "firearms instructed" as well now. I can I tought and I may have changed a couple lives.

The issue I think some of the members are having is that if I call you or your wife names, you might just pull a gun on me.
Thats the feeling I am getting from the other users posts. I could be wrong.

Responding to the name calling was the real issue for the users (from what I am reading).

Most people are just reminding you that yelling back to the scum that started the problem was a mistake.
You should have just shut the F-UP. You made the scum even more mad by responding to them.
You should have just kept loading your trunk, and not said a word.

The only issue I have is that you have a CCL, and had no (loaded) gun on you. You could have lost the fight before you even saw it start.

I am still on your side. Crap bags that have a problem with race issues are just that, crap bags.
You might have made what I think is a slip-up, but I respect the fact that you were willing to stand up to the punks.
It does sound like you know that when a scum bag gets within about 20 feet, your choices get real small, real fast.

Next time, I would not say anything that might seem to provoke the bad guy, and I would try to keep your protection device on your person.
As you know, just pulling up your shirt and showing that you are armed, can be enough to make a punk re-think his actions.

 

[AaronS]

I have to add.

I'm still your friend.

I trust you. Your welcome over any time (if you find yourself in North West Milwaukee).

 

[Lurchiron]

I get what your all saying, I have a bad mouth but to tell me what I did was wrong is just going to piss me off. My actions were really not horrible that day. Yes I cussed at them. But you guys act like that's the worse thing in the world.

Also my past statement to walk away, iv done this tons of times. It's always a good idea to walk away and avoid a confrontation. Now I'm a strong believer in non violence, it's not always a "cake walk" to walk away. The point iv been getting so frustrated with all of you is simply telling someone to **** is not reason enough to attack someone. If they were going to attack then thy still would have. I'm not sure why some of you don't understand it.... I'm not even sure why I'm trying to exsplabe myself to you guys still.

My only words are if and when it happens to one of you if love to hear what you say. Hell iv heard people on here with YouTube videos to the police showing 10x more disrespect then me telling some punks to **** the **** up. Now heat of the moment that's what came out. All of my other actions were perfectly fine and in the clear.

Now I'll only say this once but I'll apologize to you kids for my aditude. 1 im vary hard headed and when people tell me I'm 100% wrong and it was a unavoidable situation when I know it was there and now and not something I could just walk away from. The guys were close enough to spit on me 30ft is not far and they came looking for a fight. I stood up for myself and I don't think I did the wrong thing by brandishing my gun.

Maybe a couple of you would also like to man up and apologize for being a$$holes as well.

No iv said sorry and I'm going to leave it at that and this thread can be closed.

Decaf might help the 'Tude; Gold Bond, will certainly help dry up your diaper-rash...


View attachment 8922:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim:

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

One last thing on the 'defending my wife' thing. I am there for her, she knows I am but anyone who has met my wife knows she can handle herself and usually is carrying a Smith and Wesson .380 herself.

 

[McX]

there is much ado about nothing here. there is no flawless response, as there is no flawless situation. Rather than give antis anything, let's concentrate on the positives. i have had situations and encounters, was i flawless?; depends upon point of view. after talk is always easy, living the moment, and coming out alive and intact is the hard part. let us rejoice that one of our own survived.

 

[RR_Broccoli]

Rather than speaking, probably the better action would have been to insert a magazine into the gun and cycle the slide under guise of re-arranging the food in the trunk.

If the gun was accessible enough to grab when they moved forward, loading it was a better use of time for simple practical reasons rather than speaking.

One method I use when some obnoxious person is jabbering at me is look to around like I am trying to figure out who the person is speaking to, because it couldn't possibly be me.

That give you three things;

1) the ability to ignore the person while leaving doubt their mind that whatever the comment was was actually heard, that forces THEM to escalate if they want to continue or wander off, and it just might derail whatever bravado they were fueled from

2) you just looked around and know if they were doing the old "hey, got a cigarette?" distraction lead up to an attack from behind or not, know of escape routes, etc.

3) it buys some time to think, for the wife to get in the car, etc.​

For a whole bunch more discussion on the subject;

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html

Even if you aren't one of the AR15 forum type visitors it's worth a read. It goes pretty far dispelling the myth that drawing isn't a good idea, and that drawing needs to be followed up with firing. Both are simply NOT TRUE.

The blog has a whole bunch of other information on the sociological and primitive emotions and thoughts that happen in the lead up to violence.

Once the first mistake was made (talking to the punks)*, a second mistake would have been to let them close and prolong the encounter. Drawing was a second action, where the choice is now "draw and end the incident, or let three racist punks close enough range for a sucker punch or whatever else they have planned."

Never mind that step one was messed up, don't mess up step two.

So, in a sense, OP forced himself to draw to resolve the situation. But that doesn't mean he should not have drawn. Given that the first action fell apart for whatever reason. It stopped the incident didn't it? Someone rushing like that makes it time to fight, especially after they already made it clear that was what they were after. I would have drawn on them too assuming step one had already gone south.

As for right or wrong, speaking was dumb (so, wrong), for reasons directly above, drawing was not. At that point the situation was screwed up enough it was the only sensible thing to do. Empty gun or not. Maybe they'll realize some people out there are now armed, and settle down and live peacefully like good citizens.**

For your consideration, the WI DoJ FAQ document pretty clearly states with a CCW, the weapon may be stored in a car loaded in or out of reach, including in a trunk. It says NOTHING about requiring the loaded gun to be in the same compartment. So back of the car, or in the trunk is OK. (Bottom of page 44)

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw_frequently_asked_questions.pdf

Assuming it's not knocking around with the safety off, there is no reason not to load it and keep it as ready as possible. So if you have a CCW, load your trunk gun or leave it in the safe at home and just rely the one you carry. If you gotta grab a gun from your trunk you need it RFN and are hurting your chances if you have to fiddle with it first.

*Make sure the wife knows that she is not to go off verbally on someone either.

**Want to buy a bridge?

 

[newbie]

99% of the time I have a gun on me loaded and ready to fire. This was a day that rarely happens. It was so hot outside and I had on just a tanktop and shorts so to cc it wasn't happening. My wife also has a cc but she's not going to pull it out. Simply because she's not skilled with it and still is not comfertoble with it. She always keeps a .22 in her purse witch IMO is better then pepperspray. And as for the gun I keep in the trunk of my car it's a crappy HI POint .45 nothing fancy it was gifted to me. I just keep it there in the trunk incase someone else wants to shoot with me or I leave my carry gun at home.

Now back to what I did, I don't think I handled it wrong other then not having time to load the gun and if you have a pos gun like this it takes a min to load and rack it since it seems like its never a smooth action like my other gun. I told them to shut the **** up after I could tell they were already heated and seemed like they were going to attack me from behind if I wasn't watching. And loading my car without saying a word and staring at them was a sure way to get my ass beat in this situation. You can't just stare at 3 guys with them having the mindset like them. So I told them to shut the **** up after they started running I had just enough time to get the gun out. And like I said I rarely even look at this thing so I don't have a need to keep it loaded.

Now am I mature? Yes do I have a bad mouth? Hell yes. Am I trying to make friends? Not at all. Not saying your all bad guys but from what I'm getting here is that a lot of you guys are ******** and that's perfectly fine by me because I am a ******* and have no problem admiring that. In fact I hate 99% of everyone I meet. Nothing wrong with that so I stick to being friends with the people I grew up with. It seems like a lot of people in oc is full of testosterone witch is naturally going to make us all ********. Even when I first signed up here a lot of guys were helpful but alt were still dicks.

Also on the "mature" levle notice I said sorry for being a dick and others have not. Hopocrits... That's where you talk crap about something yet your doing the same. So maybe I'm the mature one since I said sorry for being a dick and others have not. So ask yourself are you really the mature ones here? Thought so you others are a ******* joke... Try to make me feel bad for not being mature yet your doing the exact same thing...

Also thanks we can be Internet friends...

 

[Nascar24Glock]

99% of the time I have a gun on me loaded and ready to fire. This was a day that rarely happens. It was so hot outside and I had on just a tanktop and shorts so to cc it wasn't happening. My wife also has a cc but she's not going to pull it out. Simply because she's not skilled with it and still is not comfertoble with it. She always keeps a .22 in her purse witch IMO is better then pepperspray. And as for the gun I keep in the trunk of my car it's a crappy HI POint .45 nothing fancy it was gifted to me. I just keep it there in the trunk incase someone else wants to shoot with me or I leave my carry gun at home.

Now back to what I did, I don't think I handled it wrong other then not having time to load the gun and if you have a pos gun like this it takes a min to load and rack it since it seems like its never a smooth action like my other gun. I told them to shut the **** up after I could tell they were already heated and seemed like they were going to attack me from behind if I wasn't watching. And loading my car without saying a word and staring at them was a sure way to get my ass beat in this situation. You can't just stare at 3 guys with them having the mindset like them. So I told them to shut the **** up after they started running I had just enough time to get the gun out. And like I said I rarely even look at this thing so I don't have a need to keep it loaded.

Now am I mature? Yes do I have a bad mouth? Hell yes. Am I trying to make friends? Not at all. Not saying your all bad guys but from what I'm getting here is that a lot of you guys are ******** and that's perfectly fine by me because I am a ******* and have no problem admiring that. In fact I hate 99% of everyone I meet. Nothing wrong with that so I stick to being friends with the people I grew up with. It seems like a lot of people in oc is full of testosterone witch is naturally going to make us all ********. Even when I first signed up here a lot of guys were helpful but alt were still dicks.

Also on the "mature" levle notice I said sorry for being a dick and others have not. Hopocrits... That's where you talk crap about something yet your doing the same. So maybe I'm the mature one since I said sorry for being a dick and others have not. So ask yourself are you really the mature ones here? Thought so you others are a ******* joke... Try to make me feel bad for not being mature yet your doing the exact same thing...

Also thanks we can be Internet friends...

Notice what I bolded. No one here can say for sure how much trouble these guys had planned to commit. But, that "bad mouth" of yours likely stirred up more of it. Many here, including myself, have tried multiple approaches to encourage you to get that "bad mouth" under control. If you don't, I fear that, the next time we hear from you, you'll be in the newspaper with one of the following headlines: "Man and wife fatally beaten after provoking three gang members" or "Man faces murder charges for provoking and killing three men." You claim to be mature. One thing you need to realize is that part of maturity is the ability to bite your tongue and not automatically say what's on your mind. Saying "I don't appreciate your words; I request that you please stop saying those things" carries the same message as "S.T.F.U." but without the provoking language.

Also, notice what I underlined. You may not be trying to make friends; and that's fine. However, what I and other people here are trying to tell you is that, as a gun carrier, you are held to a higher standard by society. That means that society expects you to respect those around you, give people common courtesy, and (to a degree) be nice to those around you. You can do all of those things, even if you don't necessarily like them. You say that you "hate 99% of everyone [you] meet." For purposes of whether you like someone, that's fine. But, for purposes of your day-to-day dealings with others, that attitude carries a high risk of getting yourself into trouble. Specifically, if any of those men wanted to press charges against you for brandishing or (depending on how your state's law is written) FELONY aggravated assault, that attitude might tip the scales with a jury, especially given how borderline this case already is.

I don't mean to overly criticize you. Untimately, drawing your weapon possibly kept yourself and your family alive. Even if you were put in jail, that would still be better than being in a hospital bed or a coffin. But, based on the information you gave me, I think you made a mistake in telling them to S.T.F.U. I, along with everyone else here, are trying to point this out for your own good so that, if something like this happens again, you'll know how to act correctly and thereby have a reasonably air-tight defense if the case goes to trial.

 

[newbie]

Removing my post.

 

[McX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Newbie...

The title of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bNfay6HiUo

says it all....

Not to mention she has the voice of an angel and it is one of my favorite songs...

Outdoorsman1

ETA.... The maturity level we are talking about has nothing to do with admitting oneself is a ******, some of us (myself included) giving advice here have admitted mistakes publically on this forum, the maturity level we are talkng about has everything to do with being "Mature" enough to know that when you carry a firearm in public you also carry an added responsibility to be "Mature" enough to be able to control your mouth and the intelligence to be able to choose words that would say the same thing only without the added aggravation to the situation... It is obvious by your last post that your just do'nt get that... I am hoping that maybe someday you will... Like I said before... Good Luck.

 

[scm54449]

Whatever his original intent was, Newbie is just a troll at this point and we should respond accordingly. Mods may as well lock this thread.

 

[MKEgal]

My wife also has a cc but she's not going to pull it out. Simply because she's not skilled with it and still is not comfertoble with it.

That scares me.
I doubt you'll listen to this advice either, but PLEASE encourage her to practice, learn the laws, & do whatever she can to become more comfortable & confident in her abilities. Without that, there's no reason to carry, and every reason not to - if she's so unsure, it very well could be taken from her. Her attacker will know she won't use it.
(While she's pregnant, she can study. Once the baby arrives, it'll be safer for her to actually practice.)

I don't think I handled it wrong other then not having time to load the gun

We're all quite clear that you don't think you did anything to escalate the situation.

I told them to shut the **** up after I could tell they were already heated and seemed like they were going to attack me

Yet you did what you could to ensure that they would attack.
You wasted time provoking them instead of getting to that unloaded, locked-away pistol.

loading my car without saying a word and staring at them was a sure way to get my ass beat

So don't stare at them. Don't challenge them.

Am I mature?

Probably physically, yes, and I'm guessing you're over 18, so legally, yes.
Emotionally & mentally, you've shown over & over just in this thread that the answer is no.

I hate 99% of everyone I meet.

:shocker:
Again, this is a very dangerous attitude to have if you're carrying.
Without a gun, you'll get into a brawl, as almost happened that day.
With a gun, you'll end up in prison for a long time for murder.

It seems like a lot of people in oc is full of testosterone witch is naturally going to make us all ********.

You haven't figured out yet that "swear words" don't get through the filters here.
And no, being male doesn't automatically make anyone a jerk.
I know several who aren't. [Is joke. Most guys I know are nice.]

notice I said sorry for being a dick and others have not.

I haven't seen anyone else here being a jerk.
I've seen people being brutally honest, because we realize that what you did could very well have gotten you (and potentially your girlfriend / wife) killed, & I can't imagine anyone here would wish that on you, no matter how annoying, obtuse, & exasperating you're being. We've tried repeatedly to help you understand why what you did (shouting at them) was dangerous, and you refuse to see that there's anything you should change.

*****

Someone else also posted this website www.nononsenseselfdefense.com
I'd posted a link to it earlier. It's clear you haven't taken advice from either of us, but I'll try again, with more specific & pointed explanations.

Here are quotes from one of their sub-pages titled "Pride, Fighting, Self-defense, and Self-control".

I regularly meet people who are willing to do anything in the name of self-defense - except practice emotional self-control.

insisting on your 'right' not to be told what to do ... refusing to withdraw from a situation ... wanting to show this other monkey you're not afraid of him ... displaying how big and bad you are so he'll back off ... yelling parting shots over your shoulder ... don't actually 'prevent' violence. In fact, they pretty much guarantee it.

ALL of those actions constitute your being a willing participant in the creation, escalation and commission of illegal violence.

That same monkey brain that's telling you can't leave because everyone will think you're a wimp? It has another trick it can pull. That is to tell you you CAN'T leave because he might follow you.
... No matter what your reason for staying, huffing and puffing, and calling him names, the end result was you chose to stay and participate.

From another page:

"Because I think I can fight, I don't have to modify my unacceptable behavior, work on my people skills or change my lifestyle."

Here's their advice on How Not to Get Attacked:
1) Don't Insult Him
2) Don't Challenge Him
3) Don't Threaten Him
4) Don't Deny It's Happening
5) Give Him A Face Saving Exit
(That page goes into more detail.)
You seem to have done the negative of at least #1 & 2.
The only thing that saved you is that they believed your empty threat (#3).

 

[PWC_Glock]

Nothing macho in carrying a gun

Before the mod decides to lock the thread down.

There is nothing macho or manly about carrying a firearm. Carrying a firearm in public (OC or CC) does require a certain mindset and a level of discipline that I do not think newbie (troll?) possesses.

A person that mouths off to other people in public in a attempt to defend against a verbal insult/honor while they have a firearm has no business carrying a firearm.

A person that mouths off to another person in public, in a attempt to defend to defend against a verbal insult/honor, when he has no means to defend against himself since he has an unloaded firearm has no business carrying a firearm in today's world.

If you want to carry a firearm you need to get your head on straight because it is a serious responsibility you are taking on, it is also a right the majority of Americans choose not to do however they benefit from those that exercise those rights.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

A person that mouths off to other people in public in a attempt to defend against a verbal insult/honor while they have a firearm has no business carrying a firearm.

+1 ... This was my thought when I first read the O.P....

Outdoorsman1

 

[Kc.38]

I wonder if the op would have mouthed off if he had not had a weapon available to him? I would guess the answer is no. It is amazing how a sidearm can change the attitude when carrying. I will admit that my attitude changes, I become more tollerant, easygoing, more of a desire to walkaway. It is enough just knowing that I don't have to put up with any BS if I choose not to, I don't have to prove it. I think about many animals in the wild that when threatened they puff themselves up to look bigger then what they really are or take a threatening pose. The animals that can protect themselves usually just walk away and go on about their business. JMO