Recommendations For First-Time Gun Buyer (Austin, TX)

[Ma}{imus]

Actually, it doesnt discredit a damned thing. We're talking handguns, and ultimately one that he/she/ who ever may someday need to rly on in a defensive situation- not what color shoes "work for you".
It's a , potentially, life and death choice.It's not a fashion decision, or a fad or a trend.
That said, there's what's proven to work, and then there's everything else.

Yes, some of it might "work", but should we ,in good conscience, suggest this week's "trendy ammo flavor" or should we suggest that which has a strong history of sucess? A lot of the other choices may be well and good on a firing range, poking holes in sheets of paper. On the street though?...nnn no.

Citation needed for strong history of success on the street. This is fanboy/internet commando BS.

For SD an individual should shoot the largest caliber they can comfortably control and accurately place follow up shots. So, yes, it does need to "work for you." And no, there is not, and won't ever be one round to rule them all.

I'm done feeding the troll now.

Swyped from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[45acpForMe]

Every thread doesn't have to turn into a caliber war.

There is alot of circumstantial data out there.

WWII .38 caliber wasn't doing the job in the Phillipines but 45acp from a 1911 did.

Many police dept, military went with 9mm for years and are NOW moving toward either 40S&W or 45acp. Not all but enough heard of to know it isn't uncommon.

If you do decide on a 9mm remember that all the tests that say how good 9mm performs compared to 45acp use +P HP ammo. So practice with and use +P self defense ammo.

Shot placement will always rule the day so shoot what you can control #1!!!!

Since I have no problem contolling .45acp that is what I choose. I prefer its recoil over other calibers anyway including +p 9mm.

 

[j4l]

Exactly.
BUT- this nonsense of "what can control/handle". 99% of people's (new, or 1st-time shooters) concept of .45 having some horrific amount of recoil is put into their heads by these silly folks with their myths.
Just because the bore diameter is larger, and the bullets heavier, doesnt mean it does or is likely to, have more recoil or be more difficult to control.

But, you still get the Natural Selection types out there who will try to insist that 9mm/.40 Smith & Useless are viable combat rounds. (most of whom, you will notice, are folks who've never had to try to make use of those rounds in an actual shooting..-those who have,now mostly pack .45s if given any choice in the matter...)

Most police agencies are now switching over to either .45 acp, .45 gap or .357 sig- having discovered that .40 was little , if any, more effective than the 9mm they were replacing because it failed so miserably any time an officer had to pull the trigger.
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHJF11/?page=22

Not to mention the military's choice to go BACK to .45 in the requirements for it's next pistol -if congress ever re-approves the change,due to the budget.. http://www.cbd-net.com/index.php/search/show/893436

" The notice starts: The USSOCOM intends to issue a solicitation to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP).

Two configurations required: One with no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety.

The 'Combat Pistol System' is to consist of:
a Caliber .45 pistol (designed for A475 and AA18 rounds)
Magazines (standard and high-capacity);
Suppressor Attachment Kit
Holster
Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity)
Cleaning Kit and Operator's Manual.

Estimates for max procurement quantities for the system are listed as
45,000 no external safety
600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration
649,000 Holsters
96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines
192,099 High Capacity Magazines
667,000 Magazine Holders
132,037 Suppressor attachment kits

While this is the max procurement, in comparison the initial order for M9 pistols was for 300,000 pistols (followed by more later)."

Do I have anything against some lesser-calibers? No. But I do object to folks answering the "what should I get" questions with myths,and putting ideas in people's heads that .45 is going to be some monster caliber. Let folks try one out 1st, before putting that pre-conceived flinch in place.
Its, .45 folks, not a .454 ...

 

[Ma}{imus]

Every thread doesn't have to turn into a caliber war.

There is alot of circumstantial data out there.

WWII .38 caliber wasn't doing the job in the Phillipines but 45acp from a 1911 did.

Many police dept, military went with 9mm for years and are NOW moving toward either 40S&W or 45acp. Not all but enough heard of to know it isn't uncommon.

If you do decide on a 9mm remember that all the tests that say how good 9mm performs compared to 45acp use +P HP ammo. So practice with and use +P self defense ammo.

Shot placement will always rule the day so shoot what you can control #1!!!!

Since I have no problem contolling .45acp that is what I choose. I prefer its recoil over other calibers anyway including +p 9mm.

+1 million if I could. A voice of of reason.

 

[Ma}{imus]

But, you still get the Natural Selection types out there who will try to insist that 9mm/.40 Smith & Useless are viable combat rounds. (most of whom, you will notice, are folks who've never had to try to make use of those rounds in an actual shooting..-those who have,now mostly pack .45s if given any choice in the matter...)

Do I have anything against some lesser-calibers? No. But I do object to folks answering the "what should I get" questions with myths,and putting ideas in people's heads that .45 is going to be some monster caliber. Let folks try one out 1st, before putting that pre-conceived flinch in place.
Its, .45 folks, not a .454 ...

I never said don't try .45, I said try a variety of handguns and calibers and find what works for you. I personally have no problem with .45, but some people I shoot with don't care for it. That's their choice and it's what works best for them. Besides, I think this thread needs some comic relief:

 

[j4l]

I never said don't try .45, I said try a variety of handguns and calibers and find what works for you. I personally have no problem with .45, but some people I shoot with don't care for it. That's their choice and it's what works best for them. Besides, I think this thread needs some comic relief:

...Interesting yearbook photo.. I'd figured you'd be a little older.. but, that explains a lot..

 

[since9]

WWII .38 caliber wasn't doing the job in the Phillipines but 45acp from a 1911 did.

Ok, let's compare apples and oranges:

.38 Caliber: 130 gr FMJ, 810 ft/s, 189 ft·lbf - ONLY SIX ROUNDS

.45 ACP: 230 gr FMJ, 835 ft/s, 356 ft-lbf - ONLY SEVEN ROUNDS

9mm luger: 115 gr FMJ, 1190 ft/s, 362 ft-lbf - A WHOPPING 17 ROUNDS

Wow, so a 9mm has more ft-lbf than a .45, huh?

Hmm...

Physics majors will claim ft-lbf is everything, while traditionalists fall back on either bore, mass, or a combination of them as being better.

Meanwhile, hundreds of comprehensive tests and hundreds of thousands of iota of empiracle data suggest the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

1. Since placement seems so dang important, I thought it'd be best to heft real iron so that my second and third taps are on the target instead of all over some carbonite planet.

2. Since the number of rounds is also critical, I thought it'd be best if I chose a firearm that could unload at least four rounds into four assailants, since, the first time I was ever approached for any mugging it was actually by four assailants, not one.

3. Since mass and velocity do indeed play a minor role, I thought it best to choose a firearm that would afford me to make the most in that area, as well.

 

[45acpForMe]

Ok, let's compare apples and oranges:

.45 ACP: 230 gr FMJ, 835 ft/s, 356 ft-lbf - ONLY SEVEN ROUNDS

9mm luger: 115 gr FMJ, 1190 ft/s, 362 ft-lbf - A WHOPPING 17 ROUNDS

Wow, so a 9mm has more ft-lbf than a .45, huh?

I checked the load I carry most for SD which is Federal hydrashok and it would have to be beyond 75 yards before it fell below your 362 ft-lb above.
Physics isn't everything, skill and luck come into play too. For comparison sake the muzzle energy of a 115 9mm from federal is 356. I agree though that 7 rounds seems underwhelming. That is why I carry a few guns that have higher normal capacity. The USP has 12+1, the FNP-45 14/15+1 as well as the Big Hawg 14/15+1. (Granted I carry a Sig P220 often at 8+1) I also carry a BUG and extra mags too.

The person that taught my concealed carry class was a retired police officer and I think it was him that said they switched away from 9mm because they got tired of having to hit the guy several times before showing any affect. So any round is better than no round but shoot the largest you can control.

Energy

Load No​	Caliber​	Muzzle​	25 Y​	50 Y​	75 Y​	100 Y​
P45HS1​	45 Auto​	414​	397​	382​	367​	354​

Velocity

Load No​	Caliber​	Muzzle​	25 Y​	50 Y​	75 Y​	100 Y​
P45HS1​	45 Auto​	900​	882​	865​	848​	832​

 

[Ma}{imus]

...Interesting yearbook photo.. I'd figured you'd be a little older.. but, that explains a lot..

You're such a comedian. At least your posts are consistent. Great for a laugh from a guy who thinks a shot to the ocular cavity from anything other than .45 won't do anything.

BTW, the pic was my interpretation of you, sir, since you are the epitome of an internet commando, spewing steaming piles of BS into the ether. I heartily congratulate you. Also, you should take a look since9's post. There's the science Einstein. But I'm guessing that you are above science, a virtual god of the internet.

I can see you madly typing your response now while fondling your .45 ACP wannabe airsoft gun before going to your fanboy LARP party. I'll be ignoring you and blocking your username from here on out since you have nothing else more useful to do than make personal attacks when you've lost an argument.

Swyped from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[j4l]

You're such a comedian. At least your posts are consistent. Great for a laugh from a guy who thinks a shot to the ocular cavity from anything other than .45 won't do anything.

BTW, the pic was my interpretation of you, sir, since you are the epitome of an internet commando, spewing steaming piles of BS into the ether. I heartily congratulate you. Also, you should take a look since9's post. There's the science Einstein. But I'm guessing that you are above science, a virtual god of the internet.

I can see you madly typing your response now while fondling your .45 ACP wannabe airsoft gun before going to your fanboy LARP party. I'll be ignoring you and blocking your username from here on out since you have nothing else more useful to do than make personal attacks when you've lost an argument.

Swyped from my LS670 using Tapatalk

Spoken like a true champ. Attempt a personal attack, and when it backfires, complain about "personal attacks" , and then flee to the land of further ignorance. :monkey
Reality and fact can be a real pain in the backside, cant it? Especially when shown how to verify it for yourself, and still choose ignorance over informed decisions.
Proof of Natural Selection, once again.

 

[SovereignAxe]

None of these Defender or Commander? Well last time I checked my 4.25 inch Commander is still a 1911, still has the full size frame, and if your ready for this, I am 5'7" 140 lbs. and can fully conceal my bobtail 1911 pancake with just a regular shirt, and I dont wear loose fitting clothes either. is it heavier than my glock 19? a bit, but I dont notice it with my gun belt and honestly my glock 19 is harder to conceal than my 1911. Sorry for the folks that are so nervous about carrying a 1911....its been good enough for 100 years 2 world wars, and many more conflicts. its accurate shoots very well, and carries that nasty ol .45 acp :uhoh:

but for real, shoot as many as you can, and carry what you are going to feel comfortable with!



Tim

I agree, but what does that have to do with concealed carry? I'm pretty sure it's been open carried throughout all of those conflicts.

I just feel like a 1911, a gun that's more than 8" in length, is MUCH better suited to OC than CC. I would only CC one if it was the only gun I had (which wouldn't be the case if I lived in a CC only state), and was forced to CC because of the situation or setting.

 

[since9]

Spoken like a true champ. Attempt a personal attack, and when it backfires, complain about "personal attacks" , and then flee to the land of further ignorance.

...

Reality and fact can be a real pain in the backside, cant it? Especially when shown how to verify it for yourself, and still choose ignorance over informed decisions.

Foolish people make a stand then cherry pick information used to defend it. They wind up doing a lot of defending.

Wise people use all available information to determine where to make their stand. If future information suggests they shift a bit, no problem.

 

[The Wolfhound]

One should remember...

That a military requirement for a pistol must encompass full metal jacket ammo. Hells bells, a .45 ACP has no competition in non expanding ammo stoping power. I love my .45 and it is my choice for carry but a mil spec requirement is not an endorsment for civilian carry. The military is not allowed our good +P and hollow point options. A 9MM with good expanding ammo would be above a .45 with hardball on my choices wish list if so restricted.

 

[45acpForMe]

That a military requirement for a pistol must encompass full metal jacket ammo. Hells bells, a .45 ACP has no competition in non expanding ammo stoping power. I love my .45 and it is my choice for carry but a mil spec requirement is not an endorsment for civilian carry. The military is not allowed our good +P and hollow point options. A 9MM with good expanding ammo would be above a .45 with hardball on my choices wish list if so restricted.

I agree but it is comparing apples and oranges. Why would someone given the choice to use hollowpoint ammo choose not to. So the comparison should be hollowpoint to hollowpoint.

So in your above example 9mm HP is superior to 45acp ball ammo BUT 45acp HP ammo will be superior (at least expansion size wise) to 9mm HP. Both penetrate well. Just remember to get all those 9mm-is-as-good-as-45 statistic numbers you have to use +P 9mm ammo. I would be curious to see +p to +p ammo caliber comparisons and even some +p+ comparisons.

ETA: One other thing to consider is failure to expand. For whatever reason if your rounds don't expand 45acp will always be bigger than 9mm.

 

[MilProGuy]

My recommendation for a fine "first handgun" is the Taurus Millennium Pro PT111 9mm semiautomatic.

They are reasonably priced, very reliable, have a modest recoil, and carry a lifetime warranty from Taurus.

 

[The Wolfhound]

Remember I said .45 ACP is my carry choice.....

I was only addressing the mention of a mil spec calling for a .45 instead of a 9MM. I have the CorBon solid copper STX +P hollow points for both 9MM and .45ACP. I carry the .45. I was removing the red herring from the thread discussion.

 

[MilProGuy]

I was only addressing the mention of a mil spec calling for a .45 instead of a 9MM. I have the CorBon solid copper STX +P hollow points for both 9MM and .45ACP. I carry the .45. I was removing the red herring from the thread discussion.

Actually, I was responding to the OP.

But...how about this .45 ACP pistol for your consideration?

Taurus 24/7 Pro Compact DS .45 ACP
Reasonably priced
Fantastic 24/7 pistol platform with decocker
External safety
Very accurate / 100% reliable ~~ been around for a good while with a great "track record"
Lifetime service / replacement warranty on the pistol itself (warranty carries over to new owner if sold / traded
Also comes with an extra (extended mag)