THway
Regular Member
imported post
Bronson wrote:
I AGREE WITH BRONSON!!!
Bronson wrote:
I AGREE WITH BRONSON!!!
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Retention Holsters are for Protection from the Police
- Thread starter SQLtables
- Start date
northofnowhere
Campaign Veteran
imported post
The police officer is clearly ignorant of the law in Michigan, but it's okay, every office I talk to say ignorance of the law is a fine legal excuse..... anyways. Presuming everone lived through the attempted robbery of a firearm, I surely would have called the police to report the incident.
This situation is extremely scary. I pray I am as aware as you were as to who is grabbing my gun from behind.
The police officer is clearly ignorant of the law in Michigan, but it's okay, every office I talk to say ignorance of the law is a fine legal excuse..... anyways. Presuming everone lived through the attempted robbery of a firearm, I surely would have called the police to report the incident.
This situation is extremely scary. I pray I am as aware as you were as to who is grabbing my gun from behind.
Hcidem
Regular Member
imported post
Bronson wrote:
I would have to agree with Bronson on this, IF (and only if) you have already decided that the incident merits pursuit through a civil suit.
If, on the other hand, you intend to educate, edify, and otherwise bring thisLEO and his department to terms with Michigan law, I would start by contacting the chief of police.
Bronson wrote:
I would have to agree with Bronson on this, IF (and only if) you have already decided that the incident merits pursuit through a civil suit.
If, on the other hand, you intend to educate, edify, and otherwise bring thisLEO and his department to terms with Michigan law, I would start by contacting the chief of police.
dougwg
Regular Member
imported post
THway wrote:
I guess it boils down to.... DO YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY A LAWYER, which is something you will need to ask yourself.
Right TheHardway?
THway wrote:
I guess it boils down to.... DO YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY A LAWYER, which is something you will need to ask yourself.
Right TheHardway?
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
Hcidem wrote:
Hcidem wrote:
I'd let the lawsuit bring them in line with state law--but that is just me....let the civil suit make an example of them, as a way of sending a message that this type of behavior by LEOs simply won't be tolerated--because had it been you tugging on the LEOs gun, I assure you--you would be in jail--the LEO deserves no less.
Bronson
Regular Member
zippo9
New member
imported post
Living just out side Grayling...I am very interested on how this comes out. I do not think I have ever OC'd IN Grayling, but during the past deer season I was in and out of a few stores and gas stations around the area with a Blackhawk straped on my hip. No one gave me a second look.
Living just out side Grayling...I am very interested on how this comes out. I do not think I have ever OC'd IN Grayling, but during the past deer season I was in and out of a few stores and gas stations around the area with a Blackhawk straped on my hip. No one gave me a second look.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
Bronson wrote:
and in addition--file a complaint with the FBI and ask them to do an investigation of the officer for possible civil rights violations--but specifically allege a violation of the the 4th and 14th Amendments.
Bronson wrote:
Ok, so sue the department, and the city separately and seek to have the state pursue criminal charges against the individual officer....
and in addition--file a complaint with the FBI and ask them to do an investigation of the officer for possible civil rights violations--but specifically allege a violation of the the 4th and 14th Amendments.
Glockingbird
New member
imported post
SQLtables wrote:
SQLtables wrote:
An eyewitness, Nice.
nascarkent
New member
imported post
I don't know what the LE had goingthrough his mind ,But anyone with a small amount of grey matter in his scull, Would know nothing good, Is going to come from trying to grab someones holstered gun.The LE needs to be disciplined for his actions ,I believe the LE is a huge liability.And it needs to be addressed. We all know if the shoe was on the other foot ,You would still be in jail or injured maybe both. At the worst shot.
I don't know what the LE had goingthrough his mind ,But anyone with a small amount of grey matter in his scull, Would know nothing good, Is going to come from trying to grab someones holstered gun.The LE needs to be disciplined for his actions ,I believe the LE is a huge liability.And it needs to be addressed. We all know if the shoe was on the other foot ,You would still be in jail or injured maybe both. At the worst shot.
SQLtables
Regular Member
imported post
Just a side note from the City Park Rules in Grayling:
[align=left]“THE FOLLOWING RULES AND REGULATIONS SHALL GOVERN ALL MUNICIPAL PARK LAND IN[/align]
[align=left]THE CITY OF GRAYLING.[/align]
ON SUCH LAND, NO UNAUTHROIZED PERSON SHALL:
11. Display, discharge, set off or use any firearms or weapon except by law enforcement officers.
Something else that caught my interest, I wonder if this would apply to firearms:
8. Use or possess fireworks, explosives or devices capable of launching a projectile.
Here's the PDF of the park rules:
http://cityofgrayling.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6oXrbAvDubg%3d&tabid=5432&mid=9467
Just a side note from the City Park Rules in Grayling:
[align=left]“THE FOLLOWING RULES AND REGULATIONS SHALL GOVERN ALL MUNICIPAL PARK LAND IN[/align]
[align=left]THE CITY OF GRAYLING.[/align]
ON SUCH LAND, NO UNAUTHROIZED PERSON SHALL:
11. Display, discharge, set off or use any firearms or weapon except by law enforcement officers.
Something else that caught my interest, I wonder if this would apply to firearms:
8. Use or possess fireworks, explosives or devices capable of launching a projectile.
Here's the PDF of the park rules:
http://cityofgrayling.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6oXrbAvDubg%3d&tabid=5432&mid=9467
Rogue9er
Campaign Veteran
imported post
*facepalm*
So Grayling has LEOs that do immensely stupid things AND a preemption violation? They're going to need a lawsuit to wake them up.
*facepalm*
So Grayling has LEOs that do immensely stupid things AND a preemption violation? They're going to need a lawsuit to wake them up.
imported post
SQLtables wrote:
:shock::what:, Wow, that could have ended bad. Good job keeping your cool.
SQLtables wrote:
Well, here it is...
I needed windshield washer fluid for my car, so I decided to stop at the only gas station in Grayling that wasn't packed with cars already. It happened to be the Shell station, and coincidentally there was also a Grayling PD car at one of the pumps. I went in and asked for washer fluid and got a pop. The cop was just walking around the store talking to the female employee.
I went back up to the counter and paid for my items. While she was handing my change back, the officer walked behind me and the next thing I know, I feel a hard pull on my gun. The officer was trying to pull it out of my holster! :what: I swung my arm down to stop this. I turned and looked at thim and said "EXCUSE ME?!?!" Since I use a Serpa, he didn't get my gun out.
He asked "What makes you think you can do that?" and I just responded "the law". At this point, I knew it was a cop, so I just crossed my arms to eliminate the chance of him thinking I was reaching for my gun. He held my gun firmly the entire time I was in there. He never let go until I was walking out. He told me I was "Brandishing a firearm" and that there is no law that states I can carry like that. He even told me that police officers can't even carry like that, which confused me... maybe he meant off duty???
Since he had gone so far as to grab my gun, I assumed he was going to at least put me in cuffs, so I didn't really say a word to him. He apparently assumed I had a CPL because he said "You have a CCW. Use it!" and THEN he asked to see my "CCW". I complied, just to avoid further complications if/when he arrested me.
He said what I was doing was illegal a couple more times and then just told me to cover up from now on. I was surprised he didn't arrest me.. I asked for a business card and he seemed more than happy to give me one, but then he decided that "while we're trading info, let me see that CCW again" and he wrote down all of the info from it.
At that point, I told the employee thank you (after she came back from the other side of the store where she ran to when she saw the cop grab my gun) and walked out and filled my washer fluid and left.
So, I think we're talking assault, being illegally detained, and of course the unexcusable recklessness of the officer by trying to steal my gun. He put me AND the woman at the counter in danger for no reason. He never even announced he was a police officer when he was grabbing my gun. I can't imagine that this behavior is part of any training course.
ETA: I messed up the titleMaybe it'll magically get fixed?
:shock::what:, Wow, that could have ended bad. Good job keeping your cool.
SQLtables
Regular Member
imported post
nitrovic wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Yea, it could have. Let me tell you, that feeling you get when somebody tries to take your gun... it's not a good feeling.
Hcidem
Regular Member
imported post
SQLtables wrote:
This part of the story keeps running through my head, coupled with the fact that the LEO chose to keep his hand on the pistol during the entire encounter (once he discovered he did not know how to remove it directly).
I wonder if he initially thoughtSQLtables's holster had no retention feature, and thought he might be able to embarass an unwary open carrier by showing "how a bad guy could get his gun." The story seemed to indicate some LEO confusion regarding the holster. Perhaps he has not seem a Serpa before. If he had, his demeanor seemed to indicate he would not like the tactical advantage such a holster would give its wearer since police "can't even carry like that."
Of course, any of this is irrelevant regarding this LEOs abuse of duty. I just wondered if any of the abovewere his reasons of concern in approachingSQLtablesin the manner he chose.
SQLtables wrote:
This part of the story keeps running through my head, coupled with the fact that the LEO chose to keep his hand on the pistol during the entire encounter (once he discovered he did not know how to remove it directly).
I wonder if he initially thoughtSQLtables's holster had no retention feature, and thought he might be able to embarass an unwary open carrier by showing "how a bad guy could get his gun." The story seemed to indicate some LEO confusion regarding the holster. Perhaps he has not seem a Serpa before. If he had, his demeanor seemed to indicate he would not like the tactical advantage such a holster would give its wearer since police "can't even carry like that."
Of course, any of this is irrelevant regarding this LEOs abuse of duty. I just wondered if any of the abovewere his reasons of concern in approachingSQLtablesin the manner he chose.
SQLtables
Regular Member
imported post
Hcidem wrote:
Hcidem wrote:
I've ASSUMED this was the reason since it happened, but only the Detective Long knows for now.
Hcidem
Regular Member
imported post
SQLtables wrote:
I cannot imagine the feeling. Just thinking about it gives me a stomach ache. I'm thinking your family was in the car, and you had no idea how the rest of your day would be spent.
I think an encounter like this promotes you from an OC advocate to a true OC activist.
...I think I just might pick up one of those voice recorders forum members are advocating.
SQLtables wrote:
I cannot imagine the feeling. Just thinking about it gives me a stomach ache. I'm thinking your family was in the car, and you had no idea how the rest of your day would be spent.
I think an encounter like this promotes you from an OC advocate to a true OC activist.
...I think I just might pick up one of those voice recorders forum members are advocating.
Generaldet
Regular Member
imported post
Hcidem wrote:
Hcidem wrote:
I'm positive that was his intention. Only it backfired on him. Kind of embarassing for the LEO. There's a 1000 different things that could have gone wrong by that cops ignorant move. I just hope he is held accountable.