papa bear
Regular Member
what i would be interested in is how many people carry without a permission slip. oh wait that probably would be illegal and you would not have anyway of knowing.
what i would be interested in is how many people carry without a permission slip. oh wait that probably would be illegal and you would not have anyway of knowing.
[video=youtube;AUnBXLaWHrg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnBXLaWHrg[/video]
Works great if you don't have to use your weak side...
There are three things about Rob Pincus you need to remember when you hear his stance on OC:
1) he is an ex-cop from New Jersey,
2) he lives and runs his business in NJ now (where OC is pretty much illegal), and
3) he makes money teaching concealed carry classes.
Considering his background, location, and current mode of employment, expecting him to be an advocate for OC is like expecting Monsanto to be an advocate for organic low-impact farming, or expecting La Cosa Nostra to be an advocate for the RICO act...
William April is the mental health professional that I listen closest to in regard to what he calls " Violent Criminal Actors"... He would agree with about not underestimating them... bUT, he stresses the inanity of trying to build systems of response based on their irrationality. You could just as eaily have pointed out how the open presence of a weapon could set some people off into irrational confrontation, or maybe talked about how a new Phenomenon: "suicide by OC'er" could start ripping across our society, OR how dangerous it is to have open guns on our hips around mentally challenged people who don't know better than to mess with them.
Obviously, those were tongue-in-cheek examples... Meant to point out the lack of basis for the " it might keep crazy people in check" argument.
******
sFCRetired, some of your arguments barely deserve a witty retort. But, since you are retired, I'll suggest you do more research on the things you are taking about.... I'm ignoring your points 3 and 5 because they are irrational.
And how many years, Mr. Pincus, have you carried a firearm? I can count over fifty years, sir. And is it that my points 3 and 5 are irrational or is it that you do not have a viable answer?
1. What is the " concealed carry industry" ??? You have no idea what percentages of my revenue come fom where... And 90+% of the pics/video you can find of me and my stunts will be Open Carry.
The "concealed carry industry" is, as you probably well know, that group of individuals and companies who are in the business of selling the equipment and training required to obtain a government "permission slip" in many states. I removed my initial comment as you are correct; I do not know where your revenue comes from and should not have put that statement there.
Your "stunts" on your videos may be open carry, but what about on a day-to-day basis?
2. Go look at the pictures at OpenCarry.org that they choose to highlight of oc'ers.... Almost 100% are 3 or 4 o'clock and at least half of the holsters shown have no retention above friction.
Come visit with me and my friends and observe where our firearms are located. You will also notice that almost all of our holsters are retention holsters with at least one other device besides just friction to retain the weapon.
3. As for your elbow always being in contact with your gun, you are either lying, mistaken or you look completely ridiculous and should consider how much easier your life would be if you covered up the gun.
Mr. Pincus, I have tried, and will continue to try, to remain polite, but I am highly offended by you accusing me of lying. My weapon is carried in such a manner that, indeed, my elbow is in contact with my firearm. And I venture to say that I look no more ridiculous than you do. For your information, in the climate I live in, concealed carry would make my life quite a bit more difficult. There are times and places I do conceal, but that is for my own reasons.
-RJP
In my years of service to my country, it was stressed repeatedly to me that the one thing a non-commissioned officer had to have was both personal and professional integrity. I have retained that integrity even in retirement as it has served me quite well over the years. For you, sir, to call that integrity into question is an insult of the highest order.
William April is the mental health professional that I listen closest to in regard to what he calls " Violent Criminal Actors"... He would agree with about not underestimating them... bUT, he stresses the inanity of trying to build systems of response based on their irrationality. You could just as eaily have pointed out how the open presence of a weapon could set some people off into irrational confrontation, or maybe talked about how a new Phenomenon: "suicide by OC'er" could start ripping across our society, OR how dangerous it is to have open guns on our hips around mentally challenged people who don't know better than to mess with them.
Obviously, those were tongue-in-cheek examples... Meant to point out the lack of basis for the " it might keep crazy people in check" argument.
Please do understand that I am not wishing to argue with you, insult your intelligence or in any way defame you or your work. Coincidentally, I was just discussing your video on vehicle defense with a co worker today, and about an hour later happened on this thread. I have very high respect for you and your work, but in terms of OCing in public, at least while not at work and in a uniform, I would humbly submit to you that you have far less experience than many here. I am merely trying to share my knowledge, and I do believe I accomplished that. What you or anyone else does with it is their business.
I would still say that you didn't do a true apples vs apples comparison. You chose a faster CC spot than OC spot, but yet that CC spot isn't where (in my experience) most CCers carry. Whenever I talk with people they always seem to CC in the small of the back (in fact you are the first person I've come across that does appendix carry; which is also where I carry for CC and is where I'll carry once OK gets OC). Either you should have done draws from the same spot for both guns, or from the "standard" spot for both guns (small of back for CC, 3 or 9 o'clock for OC).
Also you seem to ignore other things, such as if your shirt gets caught (even more likely if you're sitting down), or how having to move your clothes is another point of failure in a high-stress situation. You also say that the criminal "could" choose to simply shoot you for seeing your gun, but ignore the fact that they "could" choose to quickly leave after seeing it. And honestly, I'm not going to be trying to talk to someone who just busted through my door, I'm going to react to the person as if they are a threat to me and my family.
Really you state that you don't like OC, then provide biased reasoning while not mentioning reasons that would weaken your position but let the individual make an informed decision. And I'm just not a fan of that.