Royal Oak Needs Help Understanding MI Firearm Preemption Law...

[NHCGRPR45]

see cat at left,,,,

 

[stainless1911]

Don't forget the sonic boom. Good things come in 3's primer powder air

 

[sasha601]

What is disturbing is that Mr. Drinkwine is empowered to legislate and create Ordinances in the city of Royal Oak, but he seems not to understand legal definitions. He does not understand a difference between explosives and firearms. Michigan Law specifically preempts firearms and not explosives or other weapons. He does not bother to take time to understand legalities in question. This is how local governments pass bad laws. Instead of legislating strictly in accordance with the Law, they often interject emotions resulting in unlawful ordinances.

 

[DanM]

What is disturbing is that Mr. Drinkwine is empowered to legislate and create Ordinances in the city of Royal Oak, but he seems not to understand legal definitions . . . legalities in question . . . [and seems the type to] interject emotions resulting in unlawful ordinances.

I agree, after watching the council videos and observing him in person. Fortunately, the state eventually recognizes the threat to fundamental rights posed by guys like Drinkwine, and they find themselves preempted.

If local government wishes to look for the reason the state seems deaf a lot of times with their requests to gain back "local control" on a preempted area, they need only look into the mirror.

 

[Bronson]

Michigan Law specifically preempts firearms and not explosives or other weapons.

The state also reserves to itself all authority on the ownership, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of ammunition so to-bad-so-sad Mr. Drinkwine.

Perhaps it is time to call for a recall of Drinkwine.

Bronson

 

[TheQ]

"...a gun goes BOOM, that's an explosive...!"

Maybe Mr. Drinkwine needs to Drink more wine than he'll "get" it?

 

[NHCGRPR45]

I agree, after watching the council videos and observing him in person. Fortunately, the state eventually recognizes the threat to fundamental rights posed by guys like Drinkwine, and they find themselves preempted.

If local government wishes to look for the reason the state seems deaf a lot of times with their requests to gain back "local control" on a preempted area, they need only look into the mirror.

indeed.

 

[PDinDetroit]

City Commission Meeting Tonight - 7:30 PM

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/porta...meetings/City Commission/2011/0103-004-11.pdf

My take: Changes are in line with MCL 123.1102 and MCL 10.31.

Your take?

 

[eastmeyers]

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/porta...meetings/City Commission/2011/0103-004-11.pdf

My take: Changes are in line with MCL 123.1102 and MCL 10.31.

Your take?

Actually.................

Sounds good.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Email Sent to City Commission

The Honorable Mayor, Jim Ellison
Donald E. Johnson, City Manager
David Gillam, City Attorney
Michael Andrzejak, City Commissioner
Patricia Capello, City Commissioner
Terry Drinkwine, City Commissioner
David J. Poulton, City Commissioner
Jim Rasor, City Commissioner
Charles Semchena, City Commissioner
City of Royal Oak, MI

I am writing you today in regards to Commission Letter #004-11.

Thank you for addressing the Royal Oak Civil Emergencies Ordinance (251-5). Good job on the proposed changes, I believe that this ordinance will now be in line with MCL 123.1102 (MI Firearm Preemption) and MCL 10.31 (Emergency Powers of MI Governor).

For reference purposes, the definition of explosives in MI law is MCL 29.42 (Emphasis mine):

(a) “Explosive” means blasting powder, nitroglycerine, dynamite, TNT and any other form of high explosive, blasting material, fuse other than an electric circuit breaker, detonator and other detonating agent, a chemical compound or mechanical mixture containing oxidizing or combustible units, or other ingredients, in such proportions, quantities or packing that ignition by fire, friction, concussion or other means of detonation of the compound or mixture or any part thereof may result in the sudden generation and release of highly heated gases or gaseous pressures capable of producing effects damaging or detrimental to or destructive of life, limb or property. An explosive does not include gasoline, kerosene, naphtha, turpentine, butane, propane, wet nitrocellulose or wet nitrostarch containing moisture in excess of 20%, or wet picric acid containing moisture in excess of 10%; or manufactured article such as fixed ammunition for small arms, fire crackers, safety flares or matches containing an explosive in such limited quantity that the collective and simultaneous detonation thereof is incapable of resulting in the sudden generation and release of highly heated gases or gaseous pressures capable of producing effects damaging or detrimental to or destructive of life, limb or property.

Therefore, small arms ammunition is not an explosive, by definition in the MI EXPLOSIVES ACT OF 1970 (Act 202 of 1970).

Please contact me with any questions about this information.

Sincerely,

PDinDetroit

cc:
Christopher M Jahnke, Royal Oak Police Chief

 

[scot623]

technically he is right, a small controlled explosion is what propells the projectile from the barrel, and actually there are 2 explosions the firing pins ignites the primer which in turn ignites the powder charge, which then sends the bullet down the barrel. so just this once the stars have aligned, and the planets have fallen into sync and mr. drinkwine has pulled out the right answer without really ever understanding the question.

:banana:

Using that oversimplistic definition, the 10,000+ internal combustion engines within the city limits, including but not limited to, cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers, weed whippers, chain saws ect, ect...are all explosives.

 

[Ruckus]

Using that oversimplistic definition, the 10,000+ internal combustion engines within the city limits, including but not limited to, cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers, weed whippers, chain saws ect, ect...are all explosives.

How about Drinkwine's mouth when his limited nuerons rub together...could that be considered a dangerous explosive?

 

[NHCGRPR45]

Don't forget the sonic boom. Good things come in 3's primer powder air

Yes, those are indeed all good things.

Using that oversimplistic definition, the 10,000+ internal combustion engines within the city limits, including but not limited to, cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers, weed whippers, chain saws ect, ect...are all explosives.

Well they are explosions, not explosives. And they are only little ones, but in rapid sequence. Similar to guns, just no gun powder, or bullets, cases, primers ect.....

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

How about Drinkwine's mouth when his limited nuerons rub together...could that be considered a dangerous explosive?

WHAT HE ^ SAID! Good one!

 

[NHCGRPR45]

WHAT HE ^ SAID! Good one!

Originally Posted by MCL 29.42
(a) “Explosive” means blasting powder, nitroglycerine, dynamite, Neurons, and assorted brain matter, TNT and any other form of high explosive, blasting material, fuse other than an electric circuit breaker, detonator and other detonating agent, a chemical compound or mechanical mixture containing oxidizing or combustible units, or other ingredients, in such proportions, quantities or packing that ignition by fire, friction, concussion or other means of detonation of the compound or mixture or any part thereof may result in the sudden generation and release of highly heated gases or gaseous pressures capable of producing effects damaging or detrimental to or destructive of life, limb or property. An explosive does not include gasoline, kerosene, naphtha, turpentine, butane, propane, wet nitrocellulose or wet nitrostarch containing moisture in excess of 20%, or wet picric acid containing moisture in excess of 10%; or manufactured article such as fixed ammunition for small arms, fire crackers, safety flares or matches containing an explosive in such limited quantity that the collective and simultaneous detonation thereof is incapable of resulting in the sudden generation and release of highly heated gases or gaseous pressures capable of producing effects damaging or detrimental to or destructive of life, limb or property.

Well lets take this new law over to him and see if he would give it the "old rubber stamp"
see addition in red.

How about Drinkwine's mouth when his limited nuerons rub together...could that be considered a dangerous explosive?

Well no, but I have a new law above you might try to get him to sign.

 

[PDinDetroit]

The vote on this amended ordinance last night: Passed, one nay (Drinkwine).

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/sites/default/files/meetings/City Commission/2011/20110103s.pdf

There is a required Second Reading before the new ordinance is enacted. I assume that this will occur on January 24th, 2010.

 

[DrTodd]

Harry25 and I were at the meeting, we both spoke on the Civil Emergencies Ordinance Changes. Kudos to the Royal Oak City Commissioners for voting to send this back for re-work (they only wanted to pass an ordinance that would be in agreement with State Law). The City Attorney admitted that this was part of End-Of-Year cleanup and that he missed the parts we mentioned.

Harry25 is a great guy, it was good to meet him.

On a side note, Commissioner Drinkwine was his usual animated self. I find it ironic that he is the Chairperson for the Royal Oak Liquor Control Committee...

Hey, look at the picture (top right) of ol' Drinkwine OCING... what a hypocrite!

http://terrydrinkwineoutdoors.com/?cat=7

 

[PDinDetroit]

Hey, look at the picture (top right) of ol' Drinkwine OCING... what a hypocrite!

http://terrydrinkwineoutdoors.com/?cat=7

Being former LEO, he is also exempt from PFZ's. Rights for me but nay for thee!

Priceless: He has postings there at that link as a member of the "Ostrich Society".

 

[lapeer20m]

I just listened to drinkwines speech on explosives and ammunition and how dare mere mortal civilians should not be allowed to acquire the tools necessary to defend themselves during a time of emergency.

Someone needs to "autotune" his speech. I am on my iPhone today.

 

[PDinDetroit]

I just listened to drinkwines speech on explosives and ammunition and how dare mere mortal civilians should not be allowed to acquire the tools necessary to defend themselves during a time of emergency.

Someone needs to "autotune" his speech. I am on my iPhone today.

Video starts at 48:00 at the following (click on status bar on bottom of video):

http://blip.tv/play/AYKZpHgC

Notable Drinkwine Quotes (starting at 50:00):

"Obviously, I am ignorant here."

"You know I think if Al Qaeda were to march down Main Street, we would go out and talk to them and ask them if there was anything that we do that was uncomfortable for them in complete disregard for the safety of our own people here."

"I don't get this, first reading, second reading, it just doesn't make any sense."