Ryan tells Ohio he will protect our gun rights.

[WalkingWolf]

Yes he was an R. Quit saying he is. It's just a lie.
Just like I would not say romney is a democrat, even though he use to vote democrat. He changed his affiliation.
I also used to vote one of the two major parties. Then I became aware of the terrible political trap... and got out.
I understand why you should dislike Johnson so much. Your party really let you down nominating such a spineless worm like romney. It must be tough seeing so many voters abandon him for the only good man on the ballot.

It is not a lie~he ran on the republican primaries for president of the united states for this election. He is a republican, and a loser, get over it. Whenever you go on about republicans, you are talking about Gary Johnson.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

It is not a lie~he ran on the republican primaries for president of the united states for this election. He is a republican, and a loser, get over it. Whenever you go on about republicans, you are talking about Gary Johnson.

I know it's confusing... Gary Johnson is the Li-ber-tar-i-an nominee. He's is also the only man on the ballot in my state that believes in individual freedoms. He is the only one who is not a big-government scum bag. He can't be a republican if he is the Libertarian nominee. Geez, perhaps too much of the Fox-koolaide muddies the intellectual waters....

 

[WalkingWolf]

I know it's confusing... Gary Johnson is the Li-ber-tar-i-an nominee. He's is also the only man on the ballot in my state that believes in individual freedoms. He is the only one who is not a big-government scum bag. He can't be a republican if he is the Libertarian nominee. Geez, perhaps too much of the Fox-koolaide muddies the intellectual waters....

Gary Johnson ran in this election for president on the Republican Primary! No koolaide it is a fact!

 

[Citizen]

Gary Johnson ran in this election for president on the Republican Primary! No koolaide it is a fact!

Yes. But, as you've carefully tried to muddle with your arguments, your timing is off. He ran does not mean he is currently.


Note: I don't particularly support Gary Johnson. I'm just tired of Walking Wolf's twisted argument. Fact of the matter is, I tend to agree with him to the extent that I consider Johnson is not really a libertarian. He's woefully deficient (shallow might be a better word.) See the interview with him on Bob Wenzel's show:


http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/06/how-libertarian-is-gary-johnson.html

 

[eye95]

Gary Johnson ran in this election for president on the Republican Primary! No koolaide it is a fact!

Yep. He ran as a Republican, lost, and took his marbles and went home. That is the general Libertarian strategy. They're Republican as long as they get their way. When they can't, they behave in a way that hurts the Republicans who didn't give them what they wanted.

Yeah, that's the way to win over folks who think a bit like you but not exactly like you: alienate them.

Die-hard Libertarians are a few percent of Republicans. They are a noisy few percent, so they look like about 10%. As I said many months ago, Paul'd pull about 10%, and that is what he did. Now that small percent of the Republican Party is an even smaller percent of the whole electorate. So, if the Libertarian pulls 2%, I'll be surprised. However, with an election as close as this one is, that 2% could be more than the difference between the only two candidates who have a shot at winning.

Libertarians are a small minority of this board. But, again, they are a noisy minority. If one or two people mention Libertarians, they all descend on the thread, being noisy, and making it look like there are a lot of them. It is what they do, and they are quite good at it.
So, what to do? Forget the noisy and intransigent Libertarians. They have their marbles and have gone home. Focus on those who are wondering whether to vote for the Libertarian or not. They despise everything that Obama stands for. The see a world of difference between Obama and Romney. But Romney is far from perfect.

Keep pointing out to these people that a vote for the Libertarian will have zero effectual difference from staying home. Keep pointing out that staying home or voting for the Libertarian instead of voting for Romney will likely give the election to Obama. Keep pointing out that, while not perfect, Romney is clearly the better choice between Romney and Obama if Liberty and the Republic matter.

Let the tiny Libertarian minority make the noise they're gonna make. You can't stop it. But keep pushing the above message. Some will hear the message. Some will heed the message. And that will help send Obama down in defeat, preserving the Republic long enough that the conservative movement has more time to continue its slow slide into a party that supports Liberty more and more.

That is our best shot at restoring the Republic.

Keep steady in the message, undeterred by the noisy minority.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

He's woefully deficient (shallow might be a better word.)

Thanks for the link. Very interesting interview. You know recently I read a criticism of Ayn Rand's Objectivism where in it was commented that "not toe-ing the Randian line could get a person bounced from the group."
I kind of get that feeling of Johnson and being Libertarian. It's obvious from the interview that though he seems to share the basic back-bone values of libertarian-ism he does not read the right books, know the right author names, or really fill the Libertarian mold just right. What I'm saying is there is way too much made of Presenting as a Libertarian, as apposed to being libertarian.

I also have that same short coming. Though I am voting for Johnson representing the Libertarian party I my self am not part of that party. I am libertarian, but not necessarily Libertarian. I certainly could not say the correct key phrases or quote the proper authors in order to fit in properly. But I do believe in individual liberty and repealing the totalitarian bum rush in progress. Johnson is the only guy on the ballot in my state who shares those values.

 

[Citizen]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting interview. You know recently I read a criticism of Ayn Rand's Objectivism where in it was commented that "not toe-ing the Randian line could get a person bounced from the group."
I kind of get that feeling of Johnson and being Libertarian. It's obvious from the interview that though he seems to share the basic back-bone values of libertarian-ism he does not read the right books, know the right author names, or really fill the Libertarian mold just right. What I'm saying is there is way too much made of Presenting as a Libertarian, as apposed to being libertarian.

I also have that same short coming. Though I am voting for Johnson representing the Libertarian party I my self am not part of that party. I am libertarian, but not necessarily Libertarian. I certainly could not say the correct key phrases or quote the proper authors in order to fit in properly. But I do believe in individual liberty and repealing the totalitarian bum rush in progress. Johnson is the only guy on the ballot in my state who shares those values.

Vote your conscience, of course.

I think the crux of Wenzel interview is that Johnson professes to align with libertarians, yet he knows little. He's had years to read some of the libertarian works discussed in the interviews.

For example, I am a bit of a newcomer to libertarian thought, but even I knew that Milton Friedman was the guy behind government withholding from paychecks. And, I knew that Milton Friedman supported the Fed. The latter is a core libertarian principle--that central banks cause economic booms and busts, and that fiat currency is nothing but a monopoly on conterfeiting. Gary has had plenty of time to learn these things, thus the suspicion.

He may have lots of pro-freedom ideas. I'm not saying he doesn't. I am saying he's not much of a libertarian insofar as he fails to understand certain things. I guess time will tell whether he's serious about libertarianism.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

I understand what your saying. And I've been inspired to research Libertarianism and read some of the people and concepts mentioned.
But right now I'm not out to further Libertarianism, I'd just like to see American get tossed a life line. I think Johnson can do that.

 

[Redbaron007]

Yep. He ran as a Republican, lost, and took his marbles and went home. That is the general Libertarian strategy. They're Republican as long as they get their way. When they can't, they behave in a way that hurts the Republicans who didn't give them what they wanted.

Yeah, that's the way to win over folks who think a bit like you but not exactly like you: alienate them.

Die-hard Libertarians are a few percent of Republicans. They are a noisy few percent, so they look like about 10%. As I said many months ago, Paul'd pull about 10%, and that is what he did. Now that small percent of the Republican Party is an even smaller percent of the whole electorate. So, if the Libertarian pulls 2%, I'll be surprised. However, with an election as close as this one is, that 2% could be more than the difference between the only two candidates who have a shot at winning.

Libertarians are a small minority of this board. But, again, they are a noisy minority. If one or two people mention Libertarians, they all descend on the thread, being noisy, and making it look like there are a lot of them. It is what they do, and they are quite good at it.
So, what to do? Forget the noisy and intransigent Libertarians. They have their marbles and have gone home. Focus on those who are wondering whether to vote for the Libertarian or not. They despise everything that Obama stands for. The see a world of difference between Obama and Romney. But Romney is far from perfect.

Keep pointing out to these people that a vote for the Libertarian will have zero effectual difference from staying home. Keep pointing out that staying home or voting for the Libertarian instead of voting for Romney will likely give the election to Obama. Keep pointing out that, while not perfect, Romney is clearly the better choice between Romney and Obama if Liberty and the Republic matter.

Let the tiny Libertarian minority make the noise they're gonna make. You can't stop it. But keep pushing the above message. Some will hear the message. Some will heed the message. And that will help send Obama down in defeat, preserving the Republic long enough that the conservative movement has more time to continue its slow slide into a party that supports Liberty more and more.

That is our best shot at restoring the Republic.

Keep steady in the message, undeterred by the noisy minority.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

So well summed up.

 

[Citizen]

...preserving the Republic long enough that the conservative movement has more time to continue its slow slide into a party that supports Liberty more and more.

[chuckle]

Doesn't this pre-suppose the absence of those in a conservative party who work for more war, more regulation, more central banking? That is to say, where will all the neo-cons suddenly disappear to? Same for people who want power for the sake of power?

"Slide into a party that supports Liberty [sic] more and more" like disgraced Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich? Whose disgrace helped hand the midterm congressional elections to the Dems back in the 90's?

History teaches a different lesson. Its the economy, stupid. Behind that, its the bloated government and the finances. When bloated government and terrible finances--today the alliance between government and central banking--wreck the economics, the people get more and more open to demagogues. It happened in the final years of the Roman Republic (not the empire--the republic that died with Julius Caesar). It happened in 1933 Germany. It happened in 1789 France. It happened in 1917 Russia. Lots and lots and lots of history behind demagogues sliding into tyranny.

Unless a president and party get the crushing government spending, debt, and regulation--that is to say, solve the economics--things are going to slide all right. Neither major party is gonna do that; they're too stuck on maintaining the status quo.

Audit the Federal Reserve. Drop the government diktat for Federal Reserve Notes--allow competing currencies. Slash government spending. Let the market correct itself after the crash of 08, that is to say, let the malinvestment be liquidated, let the banks take their hits. Get the pain over with rather than stringing along non-solution after non-solution that only increases the disaster when it does come.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

Its the economy, stupid. Behind that, its the bloated government and the finances.

Yes, Yes and Yes!

I understand that Johnson is not the perfect Libertarian but the above ^^^ is his rhetoric and his past actions and the reason he has my vote.

I also understand that many an American is willing to cleave to the ol ways of the two parties continuing to feed an obese FED GOV and regulate/manipulate the economy....like trying to beat an old dog to get it to do what you want.... but not me.

 

[Citizen]

Yes, Yes and Yes!

I understand that Johnson is not the perfect Libertarian but the above ^^^ is his rhetoric and his past actions and the reason he has my vote.

I also understand that many an American is willing to cleave to the ol ways of the two parties continuing to feed an obese FED GOV and regulate/manipulate the economy....like trying to beat an old dog to get it to do what you want.... but not me.

I think they will wake up to that when they realize the fedgov and fed have pushed the economy over a cliff.

Alan Greenspan, the quintessential central banker, let the cat out of the bag by expressly stating that the fedgov will never default on its debt because we can always just print more money.* But, at some point that starts causing price inflation, and then massive inflation, and then Zimbabwe-like hyperinflation. Sooner or later, folks are going to recognize something is going on.

For example, my wake up call came in 2008 when the economy crashed. Because, as it was being presented then, the housing sector was grinding to a halt. Huh!?! I asked myself, "How can one sector of the economy wreck the entire economy?" After that point, I was on the look-out. I knew something was fishy, but didn't know what. Then I came across an article about gold, which led to videos about banking. Imagine my surprise and elation when I found out about libertarians like Murray Rothbard. Hey! Cool! Somebody who can systematically teach me about this stuff and knows what the heck is going on! People are going to get suspicious; and then start looking for answers.



*Notice the expression on the other guy's face when Greenspan drops the bomb about printing money at will. His reaction is priceless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6vi528gseA