Saw the "Safety Bullet" Advertised on the News...

[KansasMustang]

Wouldn't use one of those "bullets" if someone gave it to me. I trained my daughters weapons safety as soon as they were old enough to talk, and at that time it was see this steel ammo can with water in it, it's far stronger than your lil head. See hot it explodes when I shoot it? Don't touch my guns lil girls, when you're old enough I'll teach you to shoot. It worked for me.

 

[Tomas]

Have you fired one to test it?

Do you have a gun safe?

Yes.

Yes.

 

[sultan62]

I saw this thing (perhaps under a different name) at a gun show about 2 years ago. It didn't make much sense to me. The guy didn't seem to have very many potential customers stopping at his table.

It's a kludge, seems to me, for most of us.

Although, the thing might be quite effective for, say, apartment living and where gun safes are not used/desired. Actually, that may be a reasonably large/attractive market . . . if it can be reached.

The idea of disabling a gun unless the owner (good guy) is holding it is a good one. But I'm waiting for the holy grail: the personally controlled gun (PC gun). Something with a chip in it or with some means to detect that it is MY firearm--allowing ME AND ONLY ME to fire it. Something that gives me 100% personal control over MY gun.

If such a gun could be made to be reliable and effective . . . wwwowww . . . I'd buy one in one minute. I would even be glad to pay more for such a gun, since it would provide more value.

It would change . . . A LOT.

Hmm, just thinking it through, a PC gun would actually further the diffusion of OC . . .

I'm not saying the idea doesn't have potential, but it's not something that would be standard on my weapons. It would be too easy to malfunction, I have no doubt it would be 'hackable', etc. It just seems like one more thing that could potentially go wrong.

 

[okboomer]

I don't advocate a gun-safe at all. I recommend against them, unless one is incapable of keeping small ones away from guns any other way.

You recommend against a gun safe? I suppose you will think I am careless because I have two gun safes ... they are in the basement and I would much rather some burgler steal all the other valuables than any of my guns (the ones I lost in that tragic boating accident last year ). With a gun safe, you have a chance of keeping your gun(s) from being stolen and used in some senseless crime by some criminal.

But, hey, you have the right to your opinion.

 

[eye95]

You recommend against a gun safe? I suppose you will think I am careless because I have two gun safes ... they are in the basement and I would much rather some burgler steal all the other valuables than any of my guns (the ones I lost in that tragic boating accident last year ). With a gun safe, you have a chance of keeping your gun(s) from being stolen and used in some senseless crime by some criminal.

But, hey, you have the right to your opinion.

Let me qualify that: I recommend against safes for self-defense weapons. If you have a valuable collection of anything (coins, stamps, guns, bearer bonds, jewelry, etc.), a safe is a good way to protect it.

In the context, I was clearly speaking out against the idea that a gun MUST be locked up when it isn't on your hip. The only lock that is ever put on my primary SD weapon is my front door lock.

 

[Daylen]

Let me qualify that: I recommend against safes for self-defense weapons. If you have a valuable collection of anything (coins, stamps, guns, bearer bonds, jewelry, etc.), a safe is a good way to protect it.

In the context, I was clearly speaking out against the idea that a gun MUST be locked up when it isn't on your hip. The only lock that is ever put on my primary SD weapon is my front door lock.

to me it seems like it would be prudent in some areas to lock up all arms that are not on your person. Of course some significant others might find this strange at first.

I do not see the problem with using one of these safety bullets if one is worried about criminals obtaining the weapon.

 

[rpyne]

A gun should be locked up, or under direct supervision.

Yup, right along side your hammer, screw driver, baseball bat, table lamps and kitchen knives.

 

[Daylen]

Yup, right along side your hammer, screw driver, baseball bat, table lamps and kitchen knives.

You don't lock your house or apartment when its not under direct supervision? I know I do and by locking it I have locked up my hammers, tools, and firearms. What is wrong with that?

 

[since9]

The very clear danger involves complacency arising from the use of this "safety bullet." The complacency occurs when the adult leaves the firearm unattented, wrongly believing the firearm has been rendered "safe." We all know firearms are never safe, at least not until they're a puddle of slag.

In the next step - a child racks out the safety round, as he's seen the adult do, loading a live round, which the child then fires, thinking it's still a "safety bullet."

One cannot rely on such simple technology to protect a child. One must maintain positive (not passive) control of one's firearms at all times, and that includes in safes, where one must maintain positive control of the keys with the same diligence as is used to maintain positive control of the firearm itself.

My safe has has two keys, one physical and one electronic. Both are required to open it. The only time I keep my firearm in my safe is when I'm away and not carrying, or when non-firearm-friendly visitors are present.

Otherwise, it's always in my reach.

It actually has a third key, in case the electronics lose power. In order to maintain positive control, I keep that key off-site, in a second safe owned by a family member.

If the base is one of my stops, I don't carry at all. I am not even allowed to lock the gun away in my trunk while on base. Possession is outright prohibited. (That needs to change.)

I agree that this state of affairs on our military installations is absurd, and it's apparently a recent and unfortunate development. When I was in the Q's, my firearms had to be kept in the armory, but when I moved into a house on base, regs allowed me to transport them to and from my residence on base. Now, after having served and defended my country and her interests with honor and distinction for more than twenty years, and having honorably retired, I can no longer defend myself on base? Even when I can do so everywhere else in the State and throughout more than 40 states in our Union?

Absurd!

And I dare say the military doesn't exactly have a very good track record of protecting people on base.

Back to the "safety bullet," in the video the only reason he used two was to demonstrate the slide lockup during the second half of the demonstration. It's actual use only requires one "safety bullet," so that the user would only have to rack the slide once.

Regardless, I do not view the "safety bullet" as "safe," certainly not if the firearm is left lying around.

Furthermore, I do not view this as "safe" in a conflict, unless one has always trained to rack the slide after drawing one's firearm. I carry in condition two, round chambered, full magazine in place, safety off, hammer down. I need only draw and fire, and that's the way I've trained for two decades. Should I ever begin using the "safety bullet," I would require some serious re-training, or I would likely draw, fire, and inadvertently disable my firearm, leaving me a target!

To me, that's not very safe.

 

[eye95]

Regs varied from base to base. However, during my entire time in the AF, at all the bases to which I was assigned, firearms could be brought on base only if you lived on base, but had to be kept in the armory. If one wanted to use his firearm at the range or take it off base, he had to check it out of the armory and proceed directly to the range or the gate. He had to return it to the armory first thing after leaving the range or coming back through the gate.

On edit: Maxwell now seems to allow firearms in family housing. Beyond that, the rules seem to be the same as when I was in the AF. As someone not living in family housing, I am still barred from carrying on base.

On edit: Interesting, though, there seems to be a provision for the installation commander to approve the validity of CC permits on base. I will look into this.

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123194841

 

[since9]

On edit: Maxwell now seems to allow firearms in family housing.

Fairchild did too, at least from 1991 through 1994. Base regs required unarmed transport of the firearm in open view with the ammo locked in the trunk directly to/from housing to the gate.

But of course, once outside the gate, I was back in the real world and armed up. :banana:

On edit: Interesting, though, there seems to be a provision for the installation commander to approve the validity of CC permits on base. I will look into this.

Back at Fairchild, base regs prohibited concealed carry, with exceptions being granted by the base commander to individuals possessing both a valid WA CWP as well as a bona-fide need involving either direct or credible implied threats against one's person or life.

So, it's doable, under very limited circumstances.

Not here in Colorado, though! Neither the USAF Academy nor Ft. Carson will budge on the issue.

 

[Ruger95]

Safety is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't use these safety bullets because of my personnel set of circumstances. Different situations require different safety measures. I can see where they may provide a measure of safety with children around but only to a certain degree. In the senario where they showed two safety bullets loaded in the gun it would be safe if a child racked once and fired. But if the child racked a second time (quite possible) and then fired it could be a disaster. There is only a partial safety factor when using these devices.

Careful evaluation of your situation has to be considered including whether you will devote the time to completely train for their safe use.

 

[since9]

In the senario where they showed two safety bullets loaded in the gun it would be safe if a child racked once and fired.

Again, the presentation was comprised of two phases. By design, only one "safety bullet" would be chambered, with none in the magazine, thereby requiring the user to rack the slide just once to load a live round, the same as if one normally did not carry with a round chambered at all.

I would never use this as a substitute for sound safety procedures in the home, particularly with children involved, as they're far too unpredictable. Furthermore, the use of a "safety bullet" could easily lead to complacency, the relaxation of postive control measures which are superior to any passive measures such as a "safety bullet."

The one situation in which it might be of help is in the case of a gun grab, but only if the perp simply pulls the trigger. I would think most perps who would consider a gun grab would at least assume the chamber was empty, and would rack the slide, thereby expelling the safety bullet. The smarter ones out there would also be aware of the the possibility of a "safety bullet" and would be sure to rack the slide.

Even if you tried to outsmart them by using two "safety bullets," the smartest perps would simply rack twice, but you'd have to do the same, which wastes valuable time, and unless that's the way you trained, you're as likely to wind up disabling your own weapon in a firefight as anything else.

I just had a thought: Two snap caps came in the box with my firearm. They're for dry-firing practice. Using those instead of the "safety bullet" would not disable one's firearm, but in the case of a gun grab, having two in the path might be enough to frustrate a would-be gun-grabber enough for him to toss your firearm, particularly if they're hopped on adrenaline. Or he might take it with him.

I dunno. The whole concept sounds flawed and fraught with as much danger as whatever "safety" it brings. I think a good retention holster would be a far better investment to thwart a gun grab, and proper postive control safety measures in the home would serve one better than this bullet.

Don't get me wrong, folks - I have nothing against innovation or thinking outside the box. I applaud the inventor's efforts.

However, I believe in the KISS principle, particularly under stress, where higher brain functions are literally frozen as adrenaline and a dozen other chemicals skyrocket, and one's heart rate jumps to between double and triple its resting rate. A firearm is supposed to fire! Draw and fire. Not draw, rack once, rack twice... "Was that one or two? Perhaps I should rack it again..."

Given the nature of the business of carrying a firearm, I think it's a bad idea.

 

[COMMANDER1911]

I wouldn't use safety bullets in my carry gun because I know that crime can strike anywhere at anytime, no matter if you live in a gated community (fences can be jumped by determined thugs) or the ghetto. I don't use safes for the very same reason. I know that in some cases, time doesn't allow one to retrieve a weapon from a safe or charge a weapon multiple times. My SD gun is no more than 1 foot away from me at all times. Whether it be on my hip, or on my nightstand. Supervision and responsibility are the best safeties of all.

 

[Bowers]

On edit: Interesting, though, there seems to be a provision for the installation commander to approve the validity of CC permits on base. I will look into this.

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123194841

I'd be very interested in what you find out. I'll be joining in May, so chances are good I'll be spending some time on AF installations. I also go onto Grand Forks AFB frequently, and (obviously) never carry when I do. If there was a way to get around that.... well I'd be first in line.

 

[COMMANDER1911]

I'd be very interested in what you find out. I'll be joining in May, so chances are good I'll be spending some time on AF installations. I also go onto Grand Forks AFB frequently, and (obviously) never carry when I do. If there was a way to get around that.... well I'd be first in line.

When I was stationed on Camp Lejeune (4 months ago), The rule was, if you wanted to carry on base, the weapon had to be registered with the Provost Marshall's Office (PMO), the weapon had to be unloaded, in a glove box or console, and the ammo had to be locked away seperately. I you live on base housing, you may keep weapons in your house as long as they are resgistered with PMO.

 

[Bowers]

When I was stationed on Camp Lejeune (4 months ago), The rule was, if you wanted to carry on base, the weapon had to be registered with the Provost Marshall's Office (PMO), the weapon had to be unloaded, in a glove box or console, and the ammo had to be locked away seperately. I you live on base housing, you may keep weapons in your house as long as they are resgistered with PMO.

I know a Marine there. I would imagine that Air Force and Marine policy probably differ. With that link above, where it said base commander can approve/deny a CCW, I wonder if that same policy applies to all AF bases. Although I don't plan on living on base at all, I have no desire to register weapons.

 

[moore3816]

And oh what an awkward moment, you've just woke up to an intruder in your house 3 am and forget about your safety bullet, your gun is in the intruders face "click" ****. Hey pause let me get my reset stick and we can try this again.

 

[eye95]

I do believe that more people will be saved by not using this device than by using it.

 

[ixtow]

A revolution WILL NULLIFY THE CONSTITUTION! Who knows what government will be installed as a result.

This is an interesting point, but, it would seem to have already been nullified.... Were it still in force, we wouldn't all be here having these conversations.