Senator Allen Introduces Universal Reciprocity Bill

[tattedupboy]

imported post

Correction. You should have said PRIL, PRNJ, PRNY, PRMA, PRCA, PRDC, and PRMD, and also included PRDE and PRRI. WI should be taken off because it actually has decent gun laws minus CC, is hunter friendly, allows open carry, and once Doyle is thrown out of office on his rear, will almost certainly become a right to carry state. None of the aforementioned people's republics has all these characteristics.

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

I don't know how Webb's support for Concealed Carry Reciprocity could be considering "soft pedalling gun control."

I do know that he is against "one gun a month" but that will not be part of his jurisdiction: Allen was the man there when he was governor.

Most of the "repeal" push that I know of now is at the State level: Creigh Deeds and Jim (meant Brian) Moran may be good on those issues.

But what would you want Webb to repeal as a fed? Gun Free School Zones?: a toothless and unconstitutional nothing that the Feds refuse to enforce.

To me, the most troubling things in the Gun-Freedom Department going on at the Fed level these days are the Republican supported anti-terrorism initiatives -- like the "Real ID Act" which we have courtesy of our own Tom Davis (R-VA). There are also the "secret regulations" that TSA is implementing, which affects gun rights near airports: believe that is Chertoff's Department. Repealing Bush's restrictions on carrying in airports also seems like a good idea.

There is the Rulemaking to make it so State gun carry law applies on National Park land: thus repealing the Federal ban: reasonable since that is the way it is in National Forests already. But that push is foundering without any action because this Republican administration has other priorities.

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Sorry -- correction:

I meant Brian Moran.

Brother Jim is not likely to be much of a friend to the armed.

mg

 

[longwatch]

imported post

[line]Removed my Jim Moran comment, but I don't have much faith in the brother.

OGAM was Douglas Wilder's (D) little boondoggle and last I checked Virginia governors can't repeal laws on a whim.

Why not eliminate GFSZ, or the machine gun manufacture ban, the 68 gun control act, the 1933 gun control act or the 22,000 local, state, federal gun control laws out there? Theres plenty of work to do, why aren't the Dems doing it if they are so pro gun?

BTW were you at the VCDL meeting last night?

 

[combatcarry]

imported post

Contact your senators!

Everyone contact yourstate senators saying you support this bill and will not vote for them unless they vote on it!

This opens up so many freedoms to permit carriers.

 

[longwatch]

imported post

Just did a little checking on Del. Moran(D). Seems he voted for HB1106 the glove box car carry bill this year and after Governor Kaine(D) vetoed he flip flopped and voted against a veto overide. Also note the list of vetos by Gov. Kaine and note that 2 of his vetos are against pro gun bills. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+lst+VET

As for Rep. Davis(R), if the Democrats take control of the house, I sure wouldn't be surprised if Davis switched parties. I think he likes to have committee chairmanship
to much to stick with a party he doesn't really fit in with.

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Yup.

Was at VCDL.

I'm the guy who looked like this: :banghead:

Donkey

 

[longwatch]

imported post

Congratulations, you survived the lions den!

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

No problems there. Nice people. Pussycats really. Don't think I've converted any into flaming mod-dems yet, but enjoyed eating Ostriches and Buffalos at Fuddruckers with them. They even showed me their ammo.

Ooops. Feeding with the lions. Guess that makes me one of them:

These VCDL guys and gals are sharp: and did teach me a few things: for example, for real lions' dens, what I would need is a Ruger Alaskan with copper jacketed hollow points . . . ..

Donkey

 

[Spank That Donkey]

imported post

Donkey:

Come on now, how about this WaPo article, obviously meant to "rally" the Libs to defeat the evil twins "W" and Cheney:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20902-2004Apr17?language=printer

I excerpt for your reading pleasure:

"The statement asserted that Bush and Cheney were "breaking their promise to renew the assault weapons ban." The Senate voted March 2, the day of the Super Tuesday primaries, to extend the ban by 10 years, and Kerry flew back from the campaign trail to vote for the extension. The White House said it supports the concept but opposed some provisions of the Senate bill."

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Let me try to get this straight, Spanky.

You are directing me to a newspaper article covering an NRA convention where Cheney spoke in an effort to patch things up after the Bush Administration came out in favor of the assault weapons ban.

And you are suggesting that Bush's support for AWB is OK because it still left him open to criticism by some moron at the John Kerry campaign that he was not supporting AWB forcefully enough.

Well, the NRA apparently must have been in a forgiving mood because it gave Cheney a flintlock rifle and endorsed Bush-Cheney over Kerry-Edwards in the election, in spite of Bush's support for the Ban: just like it did for Allen after he said he would vote for AWB until 2004.

Fair enough. NRA supports the Republican establishment. NRA is willing to overlook inconsistent records on guns from some of its favored Republicans. NRA does not care enough about the Eleventh Amendment, qualified immunity, or those gun rights folks referenced in the article who were criticizing the administration about the Patriot Act.

But we both knew all that.

One thing I learned: You were not the one who put that Flintlock in Dick Cheney's hands for the logo on your "Kill the Lawyers" T-Shirt.

That was the NRA: it shows that they really are against gun control: indeed, there are few people in public life that know less about how to control a gun than Dick Cheney.

But don't worry for me: I am not planning on going hunting with Cheney:

And putting in Dick Cheney's mouth the words of a Shakespearean radical clown who would have destroyed his country had not somebody put a sword into him does not make me think any less of Cheney.

In fact, I think that the first thing Cheney would do would be to kiss all his lawyers:

Because if it weren't for his lawyers, Cheney would have had nobody to explain away the horrors he has put this country through in the last 6 years.

Yes, the First thing we all should do is kiss all the lawyers.

Thanks for sharing, Cuz:

The Donkey

 

[Spank That Donkey]

imported post

Donkey:

Let's be honest now.. Did Franken Kerry come to the NRA convention? (wonder why?) You say that fellow was a "moron" from the Kerry Campaign...

Did you vote for Kerry? Be honest now

Truth be known, not my tee shirt design, see http://www.boldconservative.com

and to be sure, you would fit in well on a duck hunting trip with Cheney, plenty of beer and comraderie to go around !

Why do VP's get singled out for such abuse? H Bush under Reagan, Quayle under Bush, Cheney under "W"

Wait a minute... Al Gore was the VP for who now? Didn't that guy think that 2A was all about "duck hunting"?

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Regarding the NRA, I think that one good reason to avoid talking to them -- or dealing with them at all -- is that the organization is looking more and more like SCUM.

This morning when I found out that the NRA had finally come around to giving Jim Webb the "A" rating which he clearly deserved -- I was willing to consider suspending my disbelief and re-join an organization I have been absent from since College after they stiffed me when I tried to get them to help me get a pro gun speaker on campus. Perhaps the Wall Street Journal was right: they can be convinced to do the right thing if pro-gun activists from both parties are willing to get involved: perhaps they would even be willing to hear John Kerry out, and create a dialogue with a man who very well could have been our President, rather than going out of their way to alienate him.

Now I learn that the NRA conveniently lost Webb's survey for just long enough so that they would not have to print his A rating in the American Hunter magazine.:exclaim::cuss:

I am going to try to double check with the Campaign and verify that they sent the survey in on time. But if my suspicion is correct, and the NRA has had the survey for some time , what we have here was a dirty partisan trick, the organization cannot be trusted, their "both sides of the isle rhetoric" is a load, and that is what I will tell the next politican or office-holder who asks me.

I spoke to the "Sportsmen for Webb" chair earlier this evening who advises me that the NRA is already losing members over this.

The next time you wonder why some moderate democrats do not deal with the NRA, remember this political rule: thou shalt not jerk around potential office holders who work with you in good faith. So if Senator Webb refuses to go to the next NRA-BS convention or even to meet with the NRA during the next six years, would you blame him?

As for Cheney, if you wonder why I single him out for scorn, this edition of Frontline provides ample reason -- and it is only one of many:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/


The Donkey

 

[Spank That Donkey]

imported post

PBS, now there is an organization you can trust:shock:

Lincoln, suspended haebeus Corpus, and threatened to jail the MD legislature if they didn't go along with Lincoln's calling out the troops against the South, without, and I emphasize without approval from Congress.

FDR locked up American Citizens of Japanese Hertiage in the name of "National Security", and Cheney is some kind of Bogey Man? That Wiretapping program that busted an attempt on the Brooklyn Bridge, and helped the Brits bust another massive hi-jacking of innocent passenger jets!!!

No to Kerry/Feinstein/Boxer et al (that's a lawyer term you know)

Now, on the NRA.. this can be such a close election.. and with all the dirty tricks from the Webb's handlers, note I do not include Webb himself, The NRA is going to do what is best for them and 2A.... (we don't have all the facts yet, as you concede).

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Ya know Spankster, that Frontline episode you criticize was -- as I recall -- about 2 hours long, and ya managed to critique it 20 minutes after I sent my post.

Very efficient: but you know what? It wasn't about the NSA Domestic Surveillance program:

Now, as I know you to be an open minded fellow, I am sure that you would not have attempted to flagellate a poor donkey on a subject without actually watching the program he was talking about, or even bothering to check out its subject matter.

So just in case you got a bump on the head in the last few minutes which caused you to forget about the program you just so efficiently watched, I append it again here. It pretty clearly explains a different kind of "intelligence failure" which got a whole country into an embarassing predicament, rather than just one over-enthusiastic conservative blogger:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

But lets move the debate on this subject to your own Spank-site Spanky: here we talk about guns.

And then let the beatings begin!

The Donkey

 

[Spank That Donkey]

imported post

Donkey:

All I had to read was faulty intelligence and scooter Libby... A scandal that has been totally debunked!

And even our good friends (today being the 225th anniversary of Yorktown Victory over Cornwallis)

http://www.spankthatdonkey.com/spankthatdonkey2/2006/10/19/225th-anniversary-of-victory-at-yorktown-va.html

the french said that Saddaam had WMD... come on, that is an old tired horse. The fact of the matter is Webb is wrong on Iraq, and "W" was right... I give you

http://www.spankthatdonkey.com/spankthatdonkey2/2006/7/2/webb-flawed-strategic-thinker.html

Webb was against the first Gulf War, and against this war. He was against deployment of Pershing MRBM in Europe (opposed Reagan). This guy lacks all strategic thinking skills.

The War in Iraq is "forward defense", which is why we have troops permanently stationed in Europe and Asia today, and it brough the USSR to its end. We are executing a forward defense in Iraq, whereby the bad guys concentrate and fight our best troops over there!!

If we hadn't gone into Iraq, which happens to put 140K soldiers on the border of Iran and Syria, the even bigger culprits of terroism, they would be using their resources infliltrating our borders!!

Webb is wrong!! His strategy is go down to the UN and talk about it like Klinton did, and look where that got US! North Korea with Nukes! Webb was a tactical fighter, not a strategic thinker..

 

[longwatch]

imported post

Be careful Donkey, the NRA isn't perfect but it does represent the interests of 2-4 million paying members, myself included. It does have faults but it isn't going to change overnight. I wouldn't put to much stock in the NRA losing members, they tend to gain them back.

 

[longwatch]

imported post

This is interesting if true.
http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5268

Way back on St Paddy's Day (4.00 / 1) Jim Webb personally told me and another longtime Democrat that he would not seek the NRA endorsement and would not expect them to give it to him.
by: LAS @ Thu Oct 19, 2006 at 21:28:50 PM EDT

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

longwatch wrote:

Be careful Donkey, the NRA isn't perfect but it does represent the interests of 2-4 million paying members, myself included. It does have faults but it isn't going to change overnight. I wouldn't put to much stock in the NRA losing members, they tend to gain them back.

I checked with the Webb campaign some time ago and confirmed that the Webb had (according to a senior member of the campaign) timely filled out the NRA survey and turned it in to the NRA. Some time later, before either candidate's info was posted on the NRA web site, I called the NRA, and they told me that they expected the Virginia Senate information to be posted on the web site in October. Allen's information went on weeks ago, but Webb's A rating did not go on until yesterday.

It is true that Webb never expected an NRA endorsement: he is too politically savvy for that. On the other hand, he did expect an A rating, and did treat the NRA organization in good faith.

Yesterday evening, I received a telephone call and then e-mails suggesting that the NRA clearly did withhold the Webb data from publication in the American Hunter magazine (I don't yet know about American Rifleman: am checking.)

You need two witnesses for a treason conviction: at this point, there is testimony from only one campaign member, not enough to convict the NRA: I am going to have to verify with another Webb staff member that what they told me is true, and then give the NRA an opportunity to respond: but there certainly is enough for an indictment:

If the NRA is bambooziling its membership into thinking that a grade A democratic candidate did not fill out its survery (and all that that implies) they clearly do not "represent the interests" of its 2-4 million members. Rather, the NRA shows that their staff do not trust their membership to know what is in their interest, and think that they are smarter than their members.

This is not the first time that the NRA has had problems along those lines.

I have not been a member for years, having been treated poorly by the organization as a "student member." The handful of members that I have heard from so far may not be much to an organization that channels $20 million to candidates. On the other hand, my family has been extremely generous to the NRA over many years . . . .

But first, lets see how this plays out.

 

[The Donkey]

imported post

Spank That Donkey wrote:

Donkey:

All I had to read was faulty intelligence and scooter Libby... A scandal that has been totally debunked!

. . .

the french said that Saddaam had WMD... come on, that is an old tired horse. The fact of the matter is Webb is wrong on Iraq, and "W" was right... I give you

. . .

Webb was against the first Gulf War, and against this war. He was against deployment of Pershing MRBM in Europe (opposed Reagan). This guy lacks all strategic thinking skills.

The War in Iraq is "forward defense", which is why we have troops permanently stationed in Europe and Asia today . . . We are executing a forward defense in Iraq, whereby the bad guys concentrate and fight our best troops over there!!

If we hadn't gone into Iraq, which happens to put 140K soldiers on the border of Iran and Syria, the even bigger culprits of terroism, they would be using their resources infliltrating our borders!! . . . .

Ya know Cousin, there are differences between a rationalization and "strategic thinking" and between thinking not thinking at all.

So all you needed to see was "Scooter Libby" and "faulty intelligence" and you didn't have to read further because the "scandal" was "totally debunked?"

Well, though the program does touch on the Valarie Plame affair, it does so only tangentally: what it is mainly about is WMD and the way Cheney forced the intelligence to support the war. The evidence comes primarily from top administration and former CIA officials.

Spanky, you are now experiencing an "intelligence failure" because of your continuing refusal to look at the data.

Now I would be happy to continue the debate you are trying to start here as to whether or not Bush's strategy of "forward defense" -- which you say involves permanently stationing troups in Iraq -- is truly brilliant strategic thinking, or the abject stupidity which appears, if 1. you had actually done me the courtesy of reviewing the Frontline program I referenced and 2. it involved firearms or 3. this debate was on your web site: but as I suggested before, "Open Carry" has certain rules:

And I do not think that you are arguing that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms covers intermediate range nuclear weapons -- or the right to carry a Pershing II in your holster (kind of an uncomfortable carry, ain't it?) . . . or is it that 2A trumps the INF treaty?

And Spanks, I am a bit distressed by the Machiavellian attitude you seem to be getting into yesterday with: "this can be such a close election.. and with all the dirty tricks . . . the NRA is going to do what is best for them and 2A."

(Strictly speaking, this is not going to be a close election on "the 2A" because whomever wins -- as the NRA now acknowledges -- the Second Amendment is going to have a strong supporter in the Senate. I argue above that the Bill of Rights in general and civil enforcement of 2A would be better off if Webb wins)

So you are now trying to justify dirty tricks in the name of winning an election?

Oh whatever happened to that Virginia gentlemen I once thought I knew?!

I am delighted that you found us at Open Carry, but I expect scruples, Spanky: you will find yourself without a donkey to spank on this issue unless I am satisfied that you have actually watched the Frontline episode I am now giving you for the third time:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

and if -- in discussing it -- we are not tresspassing on somebody else's site.

So watch the program folks, and join us for a lively debate at spankthatdonkey.com


The Donkey