Should NON US citizens get Concealed permits?

[dizzle2]

That isn't the Right. It is the Right to self-defense that is the natural Right. RKBA is the extension of it to the tools available for SD.

exactly, but it doesnt guarantee you a gun if you are not a citizen.lol

 

[NavyMike]

neither is the 14th amendment.........

The Due Process Clause, of the 14th, makes most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, including the 2nd. - ( McDonald v Chicago)
The Equal Protection Clause extends the Bill of Rights to non-citizens.

The right to vote is not in the Bill of Rights and is, therefore, not covered by the 14th.

 

[dizzle2]

Not to the level of unalienable Right. Voting is something that requires society. Self-Defense does not.

in the United States it is

 

[dizzle2]

The Due Process Clause, of the 14th, makes most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, including the 2nd. - ( McDonald v Chicago)
The Equal Protection Clause extends the Bill of Rights to non-citizens.

The right to vote is not in the Bill of Rights and is, therefore, not covered by the 14th.

yes, but if u think of it that way, then the 14th which wasnt ratified till 1868 doesnt even cover itself

 

[wrightme]

except that is your interpretation of it and not at all what it means. like i said, if it was a human right, then everyone would already have it

We do. See my previous post.

 

[wrightme]

in the United States it is

Rights are not given by the government. Rights are recognized by it.

 

[wrightme]

exactly, but it doesnt guarantee you a gun if you are not a citizen.lol

It doesn't guarantee you a gun if you ARE a citizen either.

 

[dizzle2]

Rights are not given by the government. Rights are recognized by it.

agreed, however according to the 19th amendment it is an unalienable right to US citizens

 

[dizzle2]

It doesn't guarantee you a gun if you ARE a citizen either.

yes it does guarantee you the right to have a gun

 

[dizzle2]

We do. See my previous post.

yes but this thread is about non-citizens having concealed weapons/open carry.

 

[wrightme]

yes it does guarantee you the right to have a gun

That is not what you said though....

But, if there were no 2nd Amendment, the Right would not disappear.

Nor does it guarantee you the Right to have a gun.

 

[dizzle2]

That is not what you said though....

But, if there were no 2nd Amendment, the Right would not disappear.

Nor does it guarantee you the Right to have a gun.

we a US citizens have the right to bear arms(guns). Those in counties such as North Korea do not have the right to bear arms(guns), nor knives, nor cell phones, laptops, etc.

 

[NavyMike]

exactly, but it doesnt guarantee you a gun if you are not a citizen.lol

There is no Federal Law barring a permanent resident alien from owning / possessing a firearm.

There are only a handful of States that do not treat resident aliens equally, when it comes to CC permits. Several of these have been successfully challenged, of late.

Hawaii would appear to be the only state left that effectively bars aliens from firearm possession, by refusing, in general, to issue non-citizens a 'permit for firearms ownership'.

 

[dizzle2]

There is no Federal Law barring a permanent resident alien from owning / possessing a firearm.

There are only a handful of States that do not treat resident aliens equally, when it comes to CC permits. Several of these have been successfully challenged, of late.

Hawaii would appear to be the only state left that effectively bars aliens from firearm possession, by refusing, in general, to issue non-citizens a 'permit for firearms ownership'.

they already can obtain an alien weapons permit if they really wanted to. Great idea though, lets let every joe shmuck that comes in this country as a non-citizen that wants a gun, have one.

 

[wrightme]

we a US citizens have the right to bear arms(guns).

Correct.

Those in counties such as North Korea do not have the right to bear arms(guns), nor knives, nor cell phones, laptops, etc.

Correct. Their natural Right to self-defense is infringed upon.

Make specific note of the wording I carefully chose. They DO have Rights, which are denied to them by their government. Our Bill of Rights does not GIVE us those same rights; it guarantees that our government does not deny those Rights to us, as some other governments do to their citizens.

 

[dizzle2]

Correct.
Correct. Their natural Right to self-defense is infringed upon.

Make specific note of the wording I carefully chose. They DO have Rights, which are denied to them by their government. Our Bill of Rights does not GIVE us those same rights; it guarantees that our government does not deny those Rights to us, as some other governments to to their citizens.

Good, we agree for the most part.lol

 

[NavyMike]

they already can obtain an alien weapons permit if they really wanted to. Great idea though, lets let every joe shmuck that comes in this country as a non-citizen that wants a gun, have one.

Are you talking about WA state's alien firearms license? That requirement was dropped in 2009, for permanent resident aliens. That change followed the SAF case that I cited earlier.

To your 2nd point, I have not argued that this applies to everyone. I am talking specifically about permanent resident aliens, which is the case that the original OP addresses. This is a group that has been through an extensive background check to get here; hardly making them "every Joe schmuck".

 

[wrightme]

Good, we agree for the most part.lol

Really? Has your position changed from that which you have been stating all along?


If not, maybe you should review the sentences you have used so far, and ask yourself why they do not accurately convey your actual meaning. Because you have not been posting views that are in sync with mine.

 

[White_russian5]

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some of you feel I shouldn't have the right to own or carry a firearm.

 

[amzbrady]

Because if there's one lesson we've seen in this country, it's that someone who is intent on committing a crime with a concealed firearm cares about the permit.

Seriously, this should be an easy answer for anyone who cares about the constitution:
14th amendment
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I am a green card holder and I've been one for 18 years now. When most people meet me they have no idea I wasn't born in this country I don't have an accent even though I speak fluent Russian I am for the most part an American. The only difference is that I can't vote, I can't run for a political office, I can't be a LEO and if I commit a felony I can be deported. I don't know about the rest of you but getting kicked out of the country I love and call home scares me more than prison and is more than enough of a deterant to crime. Taking away the rights of all Permanent Resident Aliens to carry a firearm and defend our families will do nothing more than set the gun rights movement back even further.

This does not mean everyone will, but part of the problem I see is with terrorism. What is to stop a terrorist from coming to the US in great numbers and getting concealed licenses and commiting crimes knowing they will be arrested and deported back to where they want to be. After 18 years, why not get a citizenship?

we a US citizens have the right to bear arms(guns). Those in counties such as North Korea do not have the right to bear arms(guns), nor knives, nor cell phones, laptops, etc.

They dont have the right to bear laptops?

they already can obtain an alien weapons permit if they really wanted to. Great idea though, lets let every joe shmuck that comes in this country as a non-citizen that wants a gun, have one.

Exactly, if they want US rights become a US citizen.

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some of you feel I shouldn't have the right to own or carry a firearm.

I'm a little tossed I think if you are not an American, you shouldnt have American rights, I do think since "I" have no control over that, that if you do own a firearm you should only be allowed to carry it openly, not concealed. (But then again, I do not like knowing that anyone has a concealed firearm, I would rather everyone be required to have a firearm, and carry it openly, where we all could see it).
I think that if you want to carry a firearm, you should become an American citizen and pledge your allegiance to the United States of America to earn that right in America.